What is the mental dynamic involved

[sandbur]

I didn’t read all of the comments.

Please just remember that deer hunting is not a competition. It needs to be fun. You need to change something’s if it is no longer fun and is only frustration.

Change your location , change your goals, or change your attitude.


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[H20fwler]

Not all people are obsessed with shooting big racks. To each their own, the fun should be in the hunting and who you do it with.

About half the people at my work deer hunt, I have noticed the “rack shaming” become more and more prevalent. There are a couple outstanding deer hunters that really have it dialed in and kill very nice bucks almost every year. There are others that could care less if they shoot a basket, a big one would be nice but they aren’t trying to prove anything and do not get caught up in the horn chase. Others are too busy with life to focus that much energy chasing a big one.

Do what makes you happy, you can’t control others and shouldn’t try. Everyone’s goals aren’t the same with anything.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I didn’t read all of the comments.

Please just remember that deer hunting is not a competition. It needs to be fun. You need to change something’s if it is no longer fun and is only frustration.

Change your location , change your goals, or change your attitude.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ditto:habitat work

bill

 

[Bill Loser]

Not all people are obsessed with shooting big racks. To each their own, the fun should be in the hunting and who you do it with.

About half the people at my work deer hunt, I have noticed the “rack shaming” become more and more prevalent. There are a couple outstanding deer hunters that really have it dialed in and kill very nice bucks almost every year. There are others that could care less if they shoot a basket, a big one would be nice but they aren’t trying to prove anything and do not get caught up in the horn chase. Others are too busy with life to focus that much energy chasing a big one.

Do what makes you happy, you can’t control others and shouldn’t try. Everyone’s goals aren’t the same with anything.

Exactly, 100% correct. I enjoy doing some habitat work, but the goal isnt to "grow" big bucks ,its to hopefully increase the carrying capacity of my land.
My neighbors all vary, LO to the south only shoots bigger bucks, to the east with a bow will shoot anything with horns,with a gun literally anything. To the west are trophy hunters. One parcel to the east is 1000s of acres of state forest.
We each cannot control what others do, and do not try. We watch each others land, kick out trespassers and do what we can to enjoy hunting for ourselves. We are all happy for each other no matter what is killed because every animal taken should be appreciated and respected no matter the size. Thats what is lost in the big horn craze going through the sport.

 

[Triple C]

Let's be honest. If you hunt in a state with large deer populations, multiple buck tags and long firearms seasons that extend pre-rut thru post-rut, then you are, for the most part, hunting toddler and teenage bucks. 2.5 and 3.5 yr old bucks are walking dead. Very, very few hunters in the southeast ever encounter a fully mature, 6 or 7 yr old buck.

Every seasoned hunter would LOVE to kill a 6 yr old warrior. In my neck of the woods...ain't gonna happen for the most part.

Option I: Lower expectations.
Option II: Learn to enjoy the journey over the trophy.
Option III: Take up trad bow hunting and experience the thrill of killing within 15 yds.

Hardly ever do I raise my bow. Always hoping one of the boys, grandkids or invited guests kill something instead. But...when the urge comes to loose an arrow at any deer, doe, spike, forkie or older, the heart rate goes into overdrive and shakes always occur after the shot.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Exactly, 100% correct. I enjoy doing some habitat work, but the goal isnt to "grow" big bucks ,its to hopefully increase the carrying capacity of my land.
My neighbors all vary, LO to the south only shoots bigger bucks, to the east with a bow will shoot anything with horns,with a gun literally anything. To the west are trophy hunters. One parcel to the east is 1000s of acres of state forest.
We each cannot control what others do, and do not try. We watch each others land, kick out trespassers and do what we can to enjoy hunting for ourselves. We are all happy for each other no matter what is killed because every animal taken should be appreciated and respected no matter the size. Thats what is lost in the big horn craze going through the sport.

trust me I think some of the big horn porn is out of control and I hate it with a passion. With social media being one of the biggest drivers of the any means necessary virus that has consumed some small corners of hunting. BUT I will say I think the drive for large antlers has been/can be a positive overall. My desire for large mature bucks is two fold. One it is the ultimate challenge if done ethically and two it is validation that your decisions as a wildlife and habitat manager are in the right direction. Mature bucks represent (unfortunately) such a tiny fraction of the overall herd that if you can grow and hold them it is the canary in the coal mine to me. It means you have done years of things right to get that deer to a)that particular age class and b)provided the proper habitat for him to call home. It is the ultimate test of dedication and patience in hunting. The anti-instant gratification. There is always outliers I get that. A deer can run a doe across the worst habitat available and get shot or come to a corn pile and suffer the same fate. But if done responsibly and for the right reasons, the desire for large antlers (proxy for mature bucks) can be a huge positive on the overall herd and hunting balance.

 

[Troubles Trees]

Most people don't care about antlers and they shouldn't. Hunting has more to do with meat, friends, family and enjoying the outdoors than it does about score of antlers for the majority of hunters. Those that are obsessed with score are the ones that get stressed out every time they hear a gunshot in their area, they are the ones that s**t shame people online for shooting something that doesn't meet their standards. They are also the ones that leave headless deer in the woods because they don't care about the animal or the meat, only the antlers are important to them.

If I waited to shoot a 130-140" buck I wouldn't have shot any bucks in my hunting career that spans 34 years. That hasn't changed in the last 20 years since I (and my hunting group) started letting the little bucks go. Do I want to shoot a 140" buck or bigger? Absolutely.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

This year is a typical hunt for me. The first couple days of guns season I see does, fawns, spikes, if lucky a basket racked 6 or 8point. After that I am lucky to see a deer the remaining of the 9 day season. So if I want meat, I have to take one the first couple days, and not be to picky.

I would like to say a couple weeks after gun season things will cool down, but we have muzzle loader, then the December doe hunt. It usually will be Around New Years by the time deer are relaxed more, but by then it’s below 0 out usually, and bow hunting isn’t that fun then. My son shot a doe, and I am glad he did, or we wouldn’t have any meat.

 

[Bill Loser]

Every seasoned hunter would LOVE to kill a 6 yr old warrior. In my neck of the woods...ain't gonna happen for the most part.

maybe, but this isnt the goal for ALOT of hunters out there. If it happens it happens.
I have taken part in all facets of deer hunting, from brown its down, to the crazy blood lust t zone days when it was every deer ypu saw, to chasing "mature" deer, to worrying at every shot that someone may have killed "my" deer, to where i am now, that is just enjoy yourself, they are wild animals and will go where they want when they want. To kill a big mature buck 99% of the time is nothing more than luck. The hunter had nothing to do with where it went or why. Even food plotters have no real control. We can give options sure, but force them to come? No.
Ive lived most sides of this stuff. And im much happier now than even 2 years ago.

 

[Bill Loser]

Im not opposed to anyone holding out ,or chasing the older deer. If that makes you happy, by all means do it.
Where i have a problem with it is when the "trophy " guys start telling me that the only way to really enjoy hunting is to only do things their way. That their way is the only right way. Its just not true.
We for the most part dont pass to many legal bucks. Our local herd is healthier now then i have ever seen it, we get a really good amount of rut activity, and the number of bucks is through the roof right now with a couple really big ones ive seen to make the neighbors happy. If anything our population may be a bit high so im hoping to take a doe or 2 yet.
That said we absulute do not shoot everything we see. In my zone in Wi we get a buck tag and 3 free antlerless tags, we could take 12 deer total if we wanted. We could be nearly full now if we wanted. But we cap it at 3 maybe 4 deer, thats enough. I shot a young one early on Saturday. Id say it was a mistake but that is a lie. I knew it was small, but didnt care. I havent shot in 2 years had an Oppurtunity and took it. Regrets? no not at all. The boys both passed a few so far, proud of them for that and tell them i will never tell them they can or cannot shoot anything ,its totally up to them. They have no regrets either.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have used this analogy in the past, we all would like to have a super model wife, that is a millionaire, with a huge rack, but that doesn’t mean it is a possibility for many of us. Does that mean us ugly guys shouldn’t get married? Or do we settle for the best we can get?

Luckily my wife must be blind, because I got lucky

 

[Mortenson]

Already stated here numerous times, but it just really boils down to location. I can see the OP's gripe, being in a legendary area for "trophy" hunting and seeing guys across the fence spend big dollars to come in from out of state just to kill a toddler. They didn't come for the venison, let's be real.

Some people really like antlers, and many don't care about them at all. Takes all kinds I guess. My dad's 1st ever deer hunt was in '89. He got a doe, on his own land. My 1st ever hunt was the following year in '90. I got a yearling buck. It was the 1st rack our family owned. Up 'til that point if my grandpa or dad found a shed while farming it got pitched along with a cuss word into the ravine. Turns out dad and I really took to deer hunting and we quickly liked the beauty and appeal of whitetail deer antlers. In the last 30+ years we've killed a handful of trophies and found quite a few hundreds of nice sheds. My kids are different in that they've always been around the racks and had the sheds to play with. I was worried when my son shot his 1st deer last week (a 2.5 year old buck) that he would compare it to larger deer we own and not appreciate it the way he should. I was totally wrong. His hands are nearly glued to the rack and he said, "I finally have a deer I can call my own."

I'm sure it's debatable if that's a good thing or bad. It's just fueling the fire of liking antlers too much. When you get down to the essence of conservatism vs being silly, lusting after big racks and putting them up on the wall should probably be considered silly. It does waste time and money. The meat is definitely the true prize for us as well. I know plenty of guys who have the work work mentality and they simply go out and get their buck, any buck, and get back to work.

I try to be happy for all my neighbors' kills. I keep the mindset that if they're happy then I'm happy. I just wish a few of them would be happier passing a few up. We live where it's really easy to kill small and medium sized deer but hard to kill big deer. If some of them are hunting the fencelines like they typically do, then I start to feel a little resentment at their decision making.

The last thing I'm about to say I'm not sure how it fits in. Throughout the years others get to decide which animals are trophies and which are meat. Take fishing for example, I really like how bass taste. But I don't get to eat them anymore. People had a say in the matter, and they said bass are trophies and you don't get to keep them. As a kid I got an 18" largemouth which made me proud and we couldn't wait to eat him. Boy I sure caught some grief back at the boat ramps from the fishing club guys. It was legal to keep it back then, but they shamed me. And then they turned most of the lakes into catch and release. Same with muskies. I bought a lot of muskie fishing books as a kid and they have recipes in the back pages on how to cook your muskie. People have since decided muskies are "trophy" fish. If you released the muskie, then your neighbors have a chance also. Kinda sounds like the OP's comment about how we share the neighborhood.

Age keeps coming up. Like trophy status should be measured by age and not antler size. Then you find yourself in a CWD hotbed where the experts tell you old bucks are evil and the worst at spreading and we can't have an old age structure. So now what? I think it was Catscratch who made a comment once about what if we could get bucks to grow large racks by age 2 via stellar nutrition, and could people be happy with that? Could you be happy shooting a 200" 2 yr old? If there was a chance it could help some aspect of the cwd issue. I think that was his point back then, maybe I'm off.

Anyway, just rambling.,.. good debate!

 

[omicron1792]

I agree with most of what people have written. But “most don’t care about antlers” isn’t correct where I live. People I know that hunt and aren’t active property managers, which makes up the vast majority of hunters I know, pretty much only care about antlers. They may kill a doe late in the season to fill a freezer, but every other hunt they do is for antlers. Hell, most love to say “the meat tastes better in a young buck than a doe.” A made up thing imo to justify killing young bucks.

Gun season just opened here. I have had zero pics sent to me by friends of does. I have had hundreds sent of bucks. Hell, a lot won’t even hunt till rut.

This place (this internet board), selects habitat managers that have a holistic view of deer, land, and wildlife. The vast vast vast majority of hunters hunt for antlers. Period.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have used this analogy in the past, we all would like to have a super model wife, that is a millionaire, with a huge rack, but that doesn’t mean it is a possibility for many of us. Does that mean us ugly guys shouldn’t get married? Or do we settle for the best we can get?

Luckily my wife must be blind, because I got lucky

I think your analogy is probably fair in many locations (like N. WI). I've got a spin on it for places like where the OP's land is- If there's so many potential "wives" out there that some guys feel the need to kill one every year in some areas, it seems there is significant surplus that guys should stop marrying (killing) the awkward teenagers every year and let them grow into a surplus of attractive 20-somethings to choose from.

 

[omicron1792]

I think your analogy is probably fair in many locations (like N. WI). I've got a spin on it for places like where the OP's land is- If there's so many potential "wives" out there that some guys feel the need to kill one every year in some areas, it seems there is significant surplus that guys should stop marrying (killing) the awkward teenagers every year and let them grow into a surplus of attractive 20-somethings to choose from.

And I struggle just like everyone else here with this issue. These pics were all taken at the same time on my property yesterday. 3 different 8 (ish) points. All are probably 2 years old. I have seen no bucks older than this on any camera this year.

Last year I saw one old huge buck. Haven’t seen him since post rut around March of this year

So do I take one of these 8? There is a 100 percent chance of my neighbors to north or south see them they are dead. This ain’t a guess. It’s what they tell me from their own mouths.

So, I feel everyone in this thread. This is just my situation. A good situation. But a situation none the less.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I am backwards to how a lot of people hunt. Bow hunting, I watch a lot of decent deer walk by me, some decent 8 pointers, that would be hanging right now if it came out during gun season.

On my land I get decent bucks during the rut, then a stray every so often other then that. The buck I hit bow hunting this year was a tall time 8, I would guess 120’s maybe 130. Second biggest I had on camera this year. There was a 10 point with shorter tines. Once rut is done, all the bucks go to other peoples land to die there.

From late October until mid November is my only chance at a buck with a rack. During gun season, rarely will any of the bucks I had on camera during the rut, show up for gun.

I know with game camera use in todays world, it’s easy to survey the local deer. For bow I will find a couple I like and wait for them. Gun season I meat hunt, an adult deer is the goal.

Next season I will have 2 rookie youths hunting. They will get the green light to take whatever they want. Whatever they shoot, will be a trophy to them.

 

[Mortenson]

Do you like the racks? Are you willing to spend time and money in displaying it somewhere? If so, consider taking one of them. I only take bucks I'm excited to spend money on taxidermy for. Otherwise I shoot does. I average a buck probably once every 3 years and does yearly. If you don't need to have those particular racks or a buck pic, then pass them and give it a chance.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Already stated here numerous times, but it just really boils down to location. I can see the OP's gripe, being in a legendary area for "trophy" hunting and seeing guys across the fence spend big dollars to come in from out of state just to kill a toddler. They didn't come for the venison, let's be real.

Some people really like antlers, and many don't care about them at all. Takes all kinds I guess. My dad's 1st ever deer hunt was in '89. He got a doe, on his own land. My 1st ever hunt was the following year in '90. I got a yearling buck. It was the 1st rack our family owned. Up 'til that point if my grandpa or dad found a shed while farming it got pitched along with a cuss word into the ravine. Turns out dad and I really took to deer hunting and we quickly liked the beauty and appeal of whitetail deer antlers. In the last 30+ years we've killed a handful of trophies and found quite a few hundreds of nice sheds. My kids are different in that they've always been around the racks and had the sheds to play with. I was worried when my son shot his 1st deer last week (a 2.5 year old buck) that he would compare it to larger deer we own and not appreciate it the way he should. I was totally wrong. His hands are nearly glued to the rack and he said, "I finally have a deer I can call my own."

I'm sure it's debatable if that's a good thing or bad. It's just fueling the fire of liking antlers too much. When you get down to the essence of conservatism vs being silly, lusting after big racks and putting them up on the wall should probably be considered silly. It does waste time and money. The meat is definitely the true prize for us as well. I know plenty of guys who have the work work mentality and they simply go out and get their buck, any buck, and get back to work.

I try to be happy for all my neighbors' kills. I keep the mindset that if they're happy then I'm happy. I just wish a few of them would be happier passing a few up. We live where it's really easy to kill small and medium sized deer but hard to kill big deer. If some of them are hunting the fencelines like they typically do, then I start to feel a little resentment at their decision making.

The last thing I'm about to say I'm not sure how it fits in. Throughout the years others get to decide which animals are trophies and which are meat. Take fishing for example, I really like how bass taste. But I don't get to eat them anymore. People had a say in the matter, and they said bass are trophies and you don't get to keep them. As a kid I got an 18" largemouth which made me proud and we couldn't wait to eat him. Boy I sure caught some grief back at the boat ramps from the fishing club guys. It was legal to keep it back then, but they shamed me. And then they turned most of the lakes into catch and release. Same with muskies. I bought a lot of muskie fishing books as a kid and they have recipes in the back pages on how to cook your muskie. People have since decided muskies are "trophy" fish. If you released the muskie, then your neighbors have a chance also. Kinda sounds like the OP's comment about how we share the neighborhood.

Age keeps coming up. Like trophy status should be measured by age and not antler size. Then you find yourself in a CWD hotbed where the experts tell you old bucks are evil and the worst at spreading and we can't have an old age structure. So now what? I think it was Catscratch who made a comment once about what if we could get bucks to grow large racks by age 2 via stellar nutrition, and could people be happy with that? Could you be happy shooting a 200" 2 yr old? If there was a chance it could help some aspect of the cwd issue. I think that was his point back then, maybe I'm off.

Anyway, just rambling.,.. good debate!

You know I love a good debate! I knew this post would probably enter into that territory. I also am not necessarily afraid to call it as I see it. I see some valid reasons in these responses and I see some typical excuses in these responses. Excuses are what they are. Comfort blankets. I don’t necessarily like to bring my own biases into every argument but I will in this case. As I’ve mentioned a few other times before, like cat scratch I’m into distance running. Ultramarathons. When I get into discussions with friends or acquaintances about that topic I get the standard excuses of why they can’t do that. I don’t even care, it’s not like I asked them to but I always find it funny. I see the same script all the time for shooting young bucks. Like I said, some of these big woods northern guys have a 100% legitimate reason.
Mature deer can grow anywhere if they are allowed to get mature. It’s a simple equation. Every year they live they are one year closer to mature.

 

[bwoods11]

Most people don't care about antlers and they shouldn't. Hunting has more to do with meat, friends, family and enjoying the outdoors than it does about score of antlers for the majority of hunters. Those that are obsessed with score are the ones that get stressed out every time they hear a gunshot in their area, they are the ones that s**t shame people online for shooting something that doesn't meet their standards. They are also the ones that leave headless deer in the woods because they don't care about the animal or the meat, only the antlers are important to them.

If I waited to shoot a 130-140" buck I wouldn't have shot any bucks in my hunting career that spans 34 years. That hasn't changed in the last 20 years since I (and my hunting group) started letting the little bucks go. Do I want to shoot a 140" buck or bigger? Absolutely.

That’s not true at all. The pursuit of trophy animals is very popular, about 50/50 from surveys . It’s very close. A survey done in Minnesota was like 51%|49%.

Just because you don’t care about antlers, does not mean others should not.

Each deer camp, and/or hunter or hunting group is different. Depends on location, habitat, size of each parcel, budgets, etc…

 

[Wind Gypsy]

View attachment 47419View attachment 47420View attachment 47421
And I struggle just like everyone else here with this issue. These pics were all taken at the same time on my property yesterday. 3 different 8 (ish) points. All are probably 2 years old. I have seen no bucks older than this on any camera this year.

Last year I saw one old huge buck. Haven’t seen him since post rut around March of this year

So do I take one of these 8? There is a 100 percent chance of my neighbors to north or south see them they are dead. This ain’t a guess. It’s what they tell me from their own mouths.

So, I feel everyone in this thread. This is just my situation. A good situation. But a situation none the less.

If none of them turn your crank, why kill one? Shoot a doe or two or pass on the higher genetic potential ones at least.

I haven't killed a buck in my home state the last 5 years i've had a tag here. The catch for me is I have always had elk in the freezer which has been occasionally complimented by a western whitetail, muleys, and a sheep. So there is zero reason to kill a young buck that doesn't get me fired up when I'm already pushing my luck on burning my wife out on wild game meat.

I probably have a similar age class to you and am considering talking to neighbors about a co-op based on examples others have shared here. Worst case is most folks show more restraint and 1 or two neighbors shoot the shit out of the new higher #'s of 2 year olds.