What is the mental dynamic involved

[yoderjac]

Jack, a while back on here you were talking about your cameras that send pics to a computer. What system do you use?
I want to maybe lool at doing something like this. I dont want a cell cam for a couple reasons, biggest being im cheap and dont want to pay another cell plan. Also dont want all those pics sent to me constantly.

I'm still using very old technology, BuckeyeCam Orion series. Very expensive up front, but when I amortize the cost over how many years they have been running they are less expensive (and a lot less hassle) than replacing cheaper cams. The electronics are coated. I have one of their X80s with a base that I got when they first came out for testing. It too has been running 24/7/365 flawlessly and is higher resolution. It is smaller and a 12-volt system rather than 6-volt like the Orion. I like these features, but the radio does not transmit as far.

I will caution you that 900mhz can be challenging. If you have LOS, it is great. You can't transmit through terrain. Vegetation attenuates the signal. Pines are worse than hardwoods in most cases. My pine farm is a real tough environment and I benefit from the longer distance radios. There are ways to get around the problem. These cameras have a relay function so you can forward pictures through cameras that are closer to the base.

Cuddeback 900mhz system uses a topology where the network figures out the "best" path the the base and the user has no control. This makes no sense to me. Perhaps they can get away with it because they only transmit highly decimated thumbnail pics. Transmitting pictures takes a lot more energy than operating other features of the camera. This is especially true when signal levels are low. Packet loss requires retransmission of packets. The problem with a self-healing network is that they only take into account signal level and ignore battery power.

With the Buckeye system (that transmits full resolution pictures), the user defines the routing from the terminal camera to the base. This allows you to make sure your routing cameras have sufficient solar charging that battery power is not an issue. Terminal cameras can have smaller solar panels that are balanced with the programming load.

I have work experience with 900 mhz transmission, so setup was not a big deal for me. The buckeyecam system requires some understanding of transmitting in this band to get the right camera/antenna/solar combination for each setup.

Oh, yes, by the way. The system I'm using does have cellular options. Rather than using a base connected to your PC on site, you can use a cell base on site and transmit pictures to it. The cell base takes pictures from all cameras in the network and sends them over the cell system. This mean a single account covers all the cameras in your network.

The other option is to connect your PC base to the internet. The system lets you email the pictures as soon as they arrive at the base or upload them to a server.

I don't need near-realtime information for anything, so the PC at my camp is not connected to the internet.

I also have a few cameras at my retirement property. I'm not trying to do QDM on this tiny property. I use them just to see what is out there. The PC and base for this is in the living space I put in the barn. I have high speed fiber internet there. Rather than having pictures emailed back to me from that computer, I use general remote control software to access that computer from my current home 80 miles away. I can look at pictures and change setting and check camera status all from home.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Jack, a while back on here you were talking about your cameras that send pics to a computer. What system do you use?
I want to maybe lool at doing something like this. I dont want a cell cam for a couple reasons, biggest being im cheap and dont want to pay another cell plan. Also dont want all those pics sent to me constantly.

If you are cheap the initial price for the buckeye system will probably give you some sticker shock.

With cell cams you don’t need pictures sent to you at all. They are sent to an app or website, you look at them when you want and can choose not to be notified when there are updates.

 

[Bill Loser]

I'm still using very old technology, BuckeyeCam Orion series. Very expensive up front, but when I amortize the cost over how many years they have been running they are less expensive (and a lot less hassle) than replacing cheaper cams. The electronics are coated. I have one of their X80s with a base that I got when they first came out for testing. It too has been running 24/7/365 flawlessly and is higher resolution. It is smaller and a 12-volt system rather than 6-volt like the Orion. I like these features, but the radio does not transmit as far.

I will caution you that 900mhz can be challenging. If you have LOS, it is great. You can't transmit through terrain. Vegetation attenuates the signal. Pines are worse than hardwoods in most cases. My pine farm is a real tough environment and I benefit from the longer distance radios. There are ways to get around the problem. These cameras have a relay function so you can forward pictures through cameras that are closer to the base.

Cuddeback 900mhz system uses a topology where the network figures out the "best" path the the base and the user has no control. This makes no sense to me. Perhaps they can get away with it because they only transmit highly decimated thumbnail pics. Transmitting pictures takes a lot more energy than operating other features of the camera. This is especially true when signal levels are low. Packet loss requires retransmission of packets. The problem with a self-healing network is that they only take into account signal level and ignore battery power.

With the Buckeye system (that transmits full resolution pictures), the user defines the routing from the terminal camera to the base. This allows you to make sure your routing cameras have sufficient solar charging that battery power is not an issue. Terminal cameras can have smaller solar panels that are balanced with the programming load.

I have work experience with 900 mhz transmission, so setup was not a big deal for me. The buckeyecam system requires some understanding of transmitting in this band to get the right camera/antenna/solar combination for each setup.

Oh, yes, by the way. The system I'm using does have cellular options. Rather than using a base connected to your PC on site, you can use a cell base on site and transmit pictures to it. The cell base takes pictures from all cameras in the network and sends them over the cell system. This mean a single account covers all the cameras in your network.

The other option is to connect your PC base to the internet. The system lets you email the pictures as soon as they arrive at the base or upload them to a server.

I don't need near-realtime information for anything, so the PC at my camp is not connected to the internet.

I also have a few cameras at my retirement property. I'm not trying to do QDM on this tiny property. I use them just to see what is out there. The PC and base for this is in the living space I put in the barn. I have high speed fiber internet there. Rather than having pictures emailed back to me from that computer, I use general remote control software to access that computer from my current home 80 miles away. I can look at pictures and change setting and check camera status all from home.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for all that info Jack. Not sure I understand it all but im sure i can figure it out. Not sure yet which route if any im going to go. I stopped using cameras all together last year and I saw an almost instant difference in deer movement here. Been thinking about doing something with a wifi type cam but not sure its worth it for my situation.
Thanks again!

 

[Bill Loser]

If you are cheap the initial price for the buckeye system will probably give you some sticker shock.

With cell cams you don’t need pictures sent to you at all. They are sent to an app or website, you look at them when you want and can choose not to be notified when there are updates.

I am cheap, when it comes to things like paying a provider for pictures. Im not opposed to spending when the value is there.
I did not know that about the cell cams. Is it a app from the manufacturer i assume?

 

[sandbur]

Thanks for all that info Jack. Not sure I understand it all but im sure i can figure it out. Not sure yet which route if any im going to go. I stopped using cameras all together last year and I saw an almost instant difference in deer movement here. Been thinking about doing something with a wifi type cam but not sure its worth it for my situation.
Thanks again!

I have said it before, but it has been about ten years since is I used cameras. Hunting is still fun, perhaps more fun, and it hunting has been better for a number of reasons.

Pictures were great to show our daughters when they were young and to build interest in the outdoors.

I just enjoy hunts the old way, without a hit list and without knowing exactly what is out there.

If legal, go ahead and do what you enjoy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bill Loser]

I have said it before, but it has been about ten years since is I used cameras. Hunting is still fun, perhaps more fun, and it hunting has been better for a number of reasons.

Pictures were great to show our daughters when they were young and to build interest in the outdoors.

I just enjoy hunts the old way, without a hit list and without knowing exactly what is out there.

If legal, go ahead and do what you enjoy.


.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, im not sure if i really want to go back to cameras or not. Deffinately not going back to sd card cams thats for sure. And i will not pay a cell provider to get pictures that much is certain. If i can find an affordable system on wifi or something i may do it.

 

[yoderjac]

If you are cheap the initial price for the buckeye system will probably give you some sticker shock.

With cell cams you don’t need pictures sent to you at all. They are sent to an app or website, you look at them when you want and can choose not to be notified when there are updates.

Yes, that is decimated thumbnail of pictures with most systems.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yes, that is decimated thumbnail of pictures with most systems.

Yeah, I find the thumbnails sufficient for most purposes but any of the 4 brands of cell cams I have make it very simple to get full definition of any thumbnails of particular interest, usually for a nominal fee.

The Buckeye type system is very attractive for sure, I may have to look into it more before buying any additional cell cams. I was just thinking about the monthly data fees for my 11 4G cameras and it really adds up over time. I assume they'll all be about shot by the time 4G cellular service is phased out but that is another concern because they don't work on 5G.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I purchased a security system that can run 16 cameras, I have some around my house, and I am now working on running cameras out to other areas. The ones I have are POE, so they do need a CAT5 or equivalent cable running to them, and they are limited to 328 feet/100 meters from the base without a boost to add power. I can run them out to about 1000 feet, which would cover most areas that I usually had cameras. Cameras are fairly cheap at $150 ish for 4k 4x optical zoom, and a wide view of 120 degrees. 24/7/365 live video, with motion activated recordings, very clear pictures, and really good night time pictures. I can easily see 150' at night, if it is a bright night, full moonish the cameras will stay color. No monthly fees, records onto a hard drive, and if you have internet you can access the hard drive through an app and view live video, or recordings.

Downfalls are you are limited to a maximum of 328 feet with out external power, 1000 feet with power, and you have to run an external cable to the cameras. I havent set them in the woods yet, but I have them set up for my house, and driveway, I think they will work good where I can run them.

I figured I would add 4 cameras to some of the closer areas and try it out this winter, if it works, I can add more, if not, I can set the cameras up around my house in more areas.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for all that info Jack. Not sure I understand it all but im sure i can figure it out. Not sure yet which route if any im going to go. I stopped using cameras all together last year and I saw an almost instant difference in deer movement here. Been thinking about doing something with a wifi type cam but not sure its worth it for my situation.
Thanks again!

The BuckeyeCam system (or cameras in general) are not a good fit for all situations. For example, I would not recommend using a system with such high up front cost where trespass and vandalism or theft are issues. My BEC cameras can not be reused if stolen, but the average guy doesn't know that. Most of the cheap cameras can use a security code, but they are not serialized and if you know what you are doing, you can reset them to a factory default code. These expensive BEC came I use are serialized. If you lose the code, you need to send them back to the factory to have them reset. If someone stole one of mine and sent it back, they would notify me and I could contact law enforcement.

Of course, the problem with that is most guys would steal it and then worry about whether they could use it. In many cases, anyone who is trespassing to poach would just want to screw you up and vandalize the camera.

Also, if you are just looking to see what is out there and decimated thumbnails are good enough, you may not need the high expense. I want the original resolution pictures for analysis. These cameras I'm using have a long narrow PIR detection zone. That means I get picture triggered by deer 50+ yards away. I want the ability to zoom in to antler configurations for inventory purposes. This is less important with lower end cameras that have short, wide PIR detection zones. IF deer are further from the camera, you never get a picture. The short, wide PIR detection zones were first used on cameras with slow trigger time. You often got pictures of heads or tails with deer moving perpendicular to the camera.

I'm guessing your change in movement in deer is either a result of the result of human activity checking SD cards or flash/noise avoidance of the particular cameras you were using. I presume that is why you are looking at wireless.

CUddeback makes a lower end 900 mhz system. It uses shorter range radios an only transmits decimated thumbnail pics. But if your application can tolerate this, they might be worth a look. I've only looked at them technically, and don't have hands-on with them. John Volkman has a thread on here and a number of guys on this forum use that system. The thread of issues is long and John tend to over hype the system, but that thread is worth a read. The actual uses on that thread can give you a realistic assessment of how it works for them. You will find opinions vary a lot. That is largely due to the fact that 900mhz can work well at short range with little blockage and very poorly at longer distances with a difficult environment. It may be good enough depending on your objectives and situation.

I was getting close to buying a Cuddie-link system for my small retirement property. It is only 16 acres. At the time, they were promising a PC base. I don't know if that ever came out. John Volkman would know. This property is just hardwoods and open meadow. I'm not trying to collect data for QDM analysis, just looking to see what is out there. Thumbnails would be fine for this application. The only reason I did not get one is that another guy on this forum had a BuckeyeCam Orion network. He was retiring and moving and sold me all of his equipment. I figured that eventually, the Orion cams have to fail so I wanted some back up cams. So far, 10+ years, they are all still running. I have had to send a few back for repair as connectors wear out and the Lexan lens covers scratch over time. I did have one board fail, but they replaced that for me. Since I have these cameras as backup for the pine farm where I'm doing QDM, I just deployed a few of the extras at the retirement property in the mean time.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Yeah, I find the thumbnails sufficient for most purposes but any of the 4 brands of cell cams I have make it very simple to get full definition of any thumbnails of particular interest, usually for a nominal fee.

The Buckeye type system is very attractive for sure, I may have to look into it more before buying any additional cell cams. I was just thinking about the monthly data fees for my 11 4G cameras and it really adds up over time. I assume they'll all be about shot by the time 4G cellular service is phased out but that is another concern because they don't work on 5G.

Yes, it is a pay me now or pay me over time kind of thing. There were no cell cams back when I purchased these BEC cameras. They have run so long with no reoccurring cost except for batteries. Mine run on the 6-volt SLA batteries. Battery life can vary wildly with SLA batteries. If you get the solar and programming on the camera right and can keep the battery above 85%, you can get 3 or 4 years out of a battery. If the battery level drops below 70% for any length of time, these SLAs can last less than a year.

It has be quite a few years since BEC came out with the X80 series cameras. Maybe they will come out with a system that uses LIs. I don't know if they have anything on the horizon.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[AtomApple]

I purchased a security system that can run 16 cameras, I have some around my house, and I am now working on running cameras out to other areas. The ones I have are POE, so they do need a CAT5 or equivalent cable running to them, and they are limited to 328 feet/100 meters from the base without a boost to add power. I can run them out to about 1000 feet, which would cover most areas that I usually had cameras. Cameras are fairly cheap at $150 ish for 4k 4x optical zoom, and a wide view of 120 degrees. 24/7/365 live video, with motion activated recordings, very clear pictures, and really good night time pictures. I can easily see 150' at night, if it is a bright night, full moonish the cameras will stay color. No monthly fees, records onto a hard drive, and if you have internet you can access the hard drive through an app and view live video, or recordings.

Downfalls are you are limited to a maximum of 328 feet with out external power, 1000 feet with power, and you have to run an external cable to the cameras. I havent set them in the woods yet, but I have them set up for my house, and driveway, I think they will work good where I can run them.

I figured I would add 4 cameras to some of the closer areas and try it out this winter, if it works, I can add more, if not, I can set the cameras up around my house in more areas.

View attachment 47622

Ethernet is spec’d to work out to 100m, but it doesn’t fall off a cliff if you go further. I have seen 100 mb work at 400’. If you are running a gig, probably wouldnt be so good, and I’ve never tested the limit of the Poe. You could look into getting cat 6 cabling that is 23 awg for a little better power transmission. (Cat 5e is 24 awg). Also, make sure you get an outdoor rated cable. The jacket will freeze and get brittle and crumble if you install indoor cable outside anywhere it gets below 30 F.

 

[Triple C]

I quit using trail cams about 5-7 years ago.

Have the use of trail cams led people to calling specific deer ‘their’ deer, while before you only had large tracks and a once or twice a season spotting of a specific buck?

I kind of like not using trail cams. No names on bucks. No identification of a hit list or shooter list. You see him and decide if you shoot or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here sandbur...Till this year again. Went 2 years without a single trail cam in use. Really cool to sit in stand and see what showed up. This year, added 2 cell cams. Got plenty of pics. Wish I hadn't put em back out now. Hope I have the gumption to kill the cell cam service after this season.

As for shooting young bucks...Don't give it a 2nd thought anymore about what the neighbors shoot. And they don't care what we shoot. We mostly slinging arrows. Between my homeplace and the farm my boys have killed 3 good bucks. Passed on a bunch. But not a thought about what anybody is shooting around us.

 

[Bill Loser]

The BuckeyeCam system (or cameras in general) are not a good fit for all situations. For example, I would not recommend using a system with such high up front cost where trespass and vandalism or theft are issues. My BEC cameras can not be reused if stolen, but the average guy doesn't know that. Most of the cheap cameras can use a security code, but they are not serialized and if you know what you are doing, you can reset them to a factory default code. These expensive BEC came I use are serialized. If you lose the code, you need to send them back to the factory to have them reset. If someone stole one of mine and sent it back, they would notify me and I could contact law enforcement.

Of course, the problem with that is most guys would steal it and then worry about whether they could use it. In many cases, anyone who is trespassing to poach would just want to screw you up and vandalize the camera.

Also, if you are just looking to see what is out there and decimated thumbnails are good enough, you may not need the high expense. I want the original resolution pictures for analysis. These cameras I'm using have a long narrow PIR detection zone. That means I get picture triggered by deer 50+ yards away. I want the ability to zoom in to antler configurations for inventory purposes. This is less important with lower end cameras that have short, wide PIR detection zones. IF deer are further from the camera, you never get a picture. The short, wide PIR detection zones were first used on cameras with slow trigger time. You often got pictures of heads or tails with deer moving perpendicular to the camera.

I'm guessing your change in movement in deer is either a result of the result of human activity checking SD cards or flash/noise avoidance of the particular cameras you were using. I presume that is why you are looking at wireless.

CUddeback makes a lower end 900 mhz system. It uses shorter range radios an only transmits decimated thumbnail pics. But if your application can tolerate this, they might be worth a look. I've only looked at them technically, and don't have hands-on with them. John Volkman has a thread on here and a number of guys on this forum use that system. The thread of issues is long and John tend to over hype the system, but that thread is worth a read. The actual uses on that thread can give you a realistic assessment of how it works for them. You will find opinions vary a lot. That is largely due to the fact that 900mhz can work well at short range with little blockage and very poorly at longer distances with a difficult environment. It may be good enough depending on your objectives and situation.

I was getting close to buying a Cuddie-link system for my small retirement property. It is only 16 acres. At the time, they were promising a PC base. I don't know if that ever came out. John Volkman would know. This property is just hardwoods and open meadow. I'm not trying to collect data for QDM analysis, just looking to see what is out there. Thumbnails would be fine for this application. The only reason I did not get one is that another guy on this forum had a BuckeyeCam Orion network. He was retiring and moving and sold me all of his equipment. I figured that eventually, the Orion cams have to fail so I wanted some back up cams. So far, 10+ years, they are all still running. I have had to send a few back for repair as connectors wear out and the Lexan lens covers scratch over time. I did have one board fail, but they replaced that for me. Since I have these cameras as backup for the pine farm where I'm doing QDM, I just deployed a few of the extras at the retirement property in the mean time.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks again!
I was checking out the buckeye cams, seems alot more than i really need. I only have 20 acres and most of it is pretty wide open. Add to that that i only am curious to see whats out there and how they move at night and when no one is around.
I think i will follow your advice and look into the cuddelink system.

 

[Troubles Trees]

I think i will follow your advice and look into the cuddelink system.

I was skeptical and fairly cheap like you, I did go for the Tacticam Reveal X's this year. The cameras were $100 and you don't need a subscription to use them, they work as a standalone cam with good trigger speed. Tacticam sends pics to your cell phone via the Tacticam app and costs $12 per month per camera and although I wasn't going to go the subscription route, I did and I love it! Cams take good pictures and with 1 bar of reception on the hill, it takes less than a minute to receive them.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks again!
I was checking out the buckeye cams, seems alot more than i really need. I only have 20 acres and most of it is pretty wide open. Add to that that i only am curious to see whats out there and how they move at night and when no one is around.
I think i will follow your advice and look into the cuddelink system.

Keep in mind you won't get the reliability or lifespan out of the cuddelink, but for a small property without a challenging RF environment, it might be just the ticket. I think Peplin Crreek on this forum would be a good guy to talk to about it. He has hands-on experience with it and is a real end user who will give you the good, bad, and ugly.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill Loser]

I was skeptical and fairly cheap like you, I did go for the Tacticam Reveal X's this year. The cameras were $100 and you don't need a subscription to use them, they work as a standalone cam with good trigger speed. Tacticam sends pics to your cell phone via the Tacticam app and costs $12 per month per camera and although I wasn't going to go the subscription route, I did and I love it! Cams take good pictures and with 1 bar of reception on the hill, it takes less than a minute to receive them.

You dont need a subscription? Where do the pictures go then? Sd card like a standard cam?

 

[Troubles Trees]

You dont need a subscription? Where do the pictures go then? Sd card like a standard cam?

Yessir, just like a regular trail cam bud. They do video, 1, 2, and 3 shot burst still pics but if you subscribe it only sends a single picture. Best cam I have ever owned TBH, most of my problems were slow trigger speed getting a video of a deers ass as it was leaving the frame and having no clue what the deer was.