Lime

[spaniel]

The hunting property I bought last year came with 6 acres cleared and planted in worn out food plots. In preparation for replanting I haf thre soil tested and wow.... needs 3 tons of lime per acre. I don't need it all in food plot so I'm prioritizing 1.7 acres. That's still a lot of lime. Given the location bulk ag lime wasn't an option, so 272 bags of pelletized lime it is. Today was hard, tomorrow will be harder. I hope checking up next year is not such a production . I expect thre prior planting failed because this ground was never properly prepared.

 

[Mortenson]

Good work.

 

[yoderjac]

The hunting property I bought last year came with 6 acres cleared and planted in worn out food plots. In preparation for replanting I haf thre soil tested and wow.... needs 3 tons of lime per acre. I don't need it all in food plot so I'm prioritizing 1.7 acres. That's still a lot of lime. Given the location bulk ag lime wasn't an option, so 272 bags of pelletized lime it is. Today was hard, tomorrow will be harder. I hope checking up next year is not such a production . I expect thre prior planting failed because this ground was never properly prepared.
View attachment 28548

What kind of soil is it? I've got heavy clay soils that requires 3+ tons per acre for initial amendment. But lime moves through clay very slowly. If you don't till, in heavy clay, that initial lime amendment will last for quite a few years before 1 ton/ac of maintenance lime is required.

Years ago, I started with traditional food plots. Over time, I've minimized tillage and chosen great deer food that has low pH and fertility requirements. My soil is slowly recovering from the initial damage done by tilling and my nutrient cycling has improved dramatically. I'm getting great deer plots with much less lime and fertilizer. Weed tolerance has also improved my bottom line.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SD51555]

Could you post your soil test?

 

[spaniel]

Could you post your soil test?

Phosphorus 7ppm, Potassium 78ppm, calcium 751ppm, Mg 133ppm
Actual soil pH 5.0

I will compare this to my home property, 70 miles away, in more classical ag setting, with actual soil pH 6.0....only needed 28 bags of lime for .6 acre plot....

 

[SD51555]

Phosphorus 7ppm, Potassium 78ppm, calcium 751ppm, Mg 133ppm
Actual soil pH 5.0

I will compare this to my home property, 70 miles away, in more classical ag setting, with actual soil pH 6.0....only needed 28 bags of lime for .6 acre plot....

Did you get a buffer ph reading too?

 

[Mortenson]

Our bph usually reads .5-.7 higher.

 

[spaniel]

Did you get a buffer ph reading too?

No. I used the Whitetail Institute testing service as I'm planting their products. They just gave the soil pH, CEC, and liming recommendation. However the CEC is only 8.6.

 

[MRBB]

need to find yourself a nice old drop spreader, then you can use pulverized lime in the future, and save yourself a lot of $$$, and if you have access to a front end loader and dump truck , you can stock pile some lime on site, as I doubt this one dose will resolve things,, a when soil is that far off it takes many doses like this over a few yrs to get things to stabilize(sadly speaking from experiences)

I find these drop spreaders often at farm auctions or just driving about older farm area's and looking for them sitting on property and stop and ask farmers about selling, most times there more than willing to get RID of them , got me several for free and many others for a cheap prices!
most just needed some new tires and or some slight welding, and grease to get going!


EBay and Craigslist has them often too, but at higher prices, but still worth having one if your going to own the land !


and last and maybe too late, but when soils need this much lime, I like to add HALF the lime, disc, then add other half, and repeat
seems to get things mixed faster and to working faster as well!
but its still worth disc-ing the site now befroe seeding or adding fertilizer IMO

 

[SD51555]

No. I used the Whitetail Institute testing service as I'm planting their products. They just gave the soil pH, CEC, and liming recommendation. However the CEC is only 8.6.

What I'm trying to drill down to is how you arrived at your lime rec.

3-tons is a lot of magnesium if using that lime exclusively. I've got CEC soils in that 7-9 range as well. I put that same lime on that you're using, but I only used 1-ton and started with lower Mg than you, and that got me from 5.5 to 6.0 a year later. Other than raising pH, I had two other goals, one was to raise Mg, and the other to knock out my horsetail explosion (thank you glyphosate). I pushed my Mg a tad bit further than I'd like it to be, but I also did that so I can come back with years of gypsum application and not worry about my calcium to magnesium ratio getting out of whack.

Do Ca:Mg ratios matter? There doesn't seem to be any agreement out there. But, if I can balance them without effort other than savvy planning, why not?

Is your soil high, dry, and loose? Or low, wet, and pasty?

 

[BobinCt]

My buddies field needs 1900 lbs of lime per acre and he has a 6 acre field. I’m calling tomorrow, but does anyone know the rate roughly to have a truck come out and spread 6 tons? I’m in Connecticut.

 

[MRBB]

My buddies field needs 1900 lbs of lime per acre and he has a 6 acre field. I’m calling tomorrow, but does anyone know the rate roughly to have a truck come out and spread 6 tons? I’m in Connecticut.

the driver of the bulk spreader can set things for what ever amount of LBS per acre you want
just tell him, you want it for like a ton an acre, and have him spread it for you, just make sure field is dry or have equipment there on hand to get him UN stuck if it happens, most bulk lime company's here REQUIRE this, or you get the towing bill if they get stuck!
and they call in BIG things and don't care on costs since on your dollar!
I would also ask what type of truck they have, wide high flotation tires or basic dump truck like set up
it can make a BIG difference in what places they can get into or OUT of!

 

[spaniel]

need to find yourself a nice old drop spreader, then you can use pulverized lime in the future, and save yourself a lot of $$$, and if you have access to a front end loader and dump truck , you can stock pile some lime on site, as I doubt this one dose will resolve things,, a when soil is that far off it takes many doses like this over a few yrs to get things to stabilize(sadly speaking from experiences)

I find these drop spreaders often at farm auctions or just driving about older farm area's and looking for them sitting on property and stop and ask farmers about selling, most times there more than willing to get RID of them , got me several for free and many others for a cheap prices!
most just needed some new tires and or some slight welding, and grease to get going!


EBay and Craigslist has them often too, but at higher prices, but still worth having one if your going to own the land !


and last and maybe too late, but when soils need this much lime, I like to add HALF the lime, disc, then add other half, and repeat
seems to get things mixed faster and to working faster as well!
but its still worth disc-ing the site now befroe seeding or adding fertilizer IMO

I've never seen a used drop lime spreader around here; I searched Craig's List in a 1000 mile radius and it listed one...We are many years out from small ag here, most of the small equipment has long since been taken in for scrap steal. Given the site I couldn't have gotten in there until after planting season with a pull-behind spreader as it would have gotten stuck. Had to do it by ATV.

 

[spaniel]

What I'm trying to drill down to is how you arrived at your lime rec.

3-tons is a lot of magnesium if using that lime exclusively. I've got CEC soils in that 7-9 range as well. I put that same lime on that you're using, but I only used 1-ton and started with lower Mg than you, and that got me from 5.5 to 6.0 a year later. Other than raising pH, I had two other goals, one was to raise Mg, and the other to knock out my horsetail explosion (thank you glyphosate). I pushed my Mg a tad bit further than I'd like it to be, but I also did that so I can come back with years of gypsum application and not worry about my calcium to magnesium ratio getting out of whack.

Do Ca:Mg ratios matter? There doesn't seem to be any agreement out there. But, if I can balance them without effort other than savvy planning, why not?

Is your soil high, dry, and loose? Or low, wet, and pasty?

I arrived at my lime numbers by doing exactly what Whitetail Institute recommended, as they ran the soil test and it's geared towards planting a specific product of theirs. Hence they have an incentive to guide me in the right direction if they want me happy and buying more products.

Mg is still on the low side too...everything is. The site is complex, there is a .6 acre plot on the top of a hill and another acre going down the side of the hill approaching a creek bottom. But there is a ridge higher than the top field behind it, and even high up there is water coming through the hill and today it was almost as wet as the lowest end. Almost didn't get the truck/trailer turned around on top of the hill without getting stuck. There's a lot of water to the north and it moves through the ground and comes out the hill. Soil is lighter in composition. So high, wet and pasty...until summer, when it will be high and too dry.

That's the thing with this site, unless I spread lime in summer nothing heavier than a UTV is going to get in there. I wanted to get it planted this year so elected to get in there ASAP with the quicker acting lime. Didn't want to sacrifice a whole year waiting, I'll give it a shot and if it doesn't establish I'll prep it again in the fall and try again.

Last year I couldn't safely get in there with a tractor until the last week of May but it was a wet year.

 

[MRBB]

well where are you located at??
as I see them all the time, and most all can be pulled with an ATV
have a few at properties I am part of from 12 ft wide one's to 4 ft wide one's and unless really steep land, ALL have ben pulled witha atv 90% of the time, if steep, we will use a 4x4 tractor, just cause, a 1,000-1,500 lbs of lime in a pul behind can be a lot for UP hill work or control down hills on the atv's but we have done it woo at times! all comes down to how steep the hills are!

but you's be surprised how well a atv can work pulverized lime with a good old drop spreader

MOST places that sell them on E bay, also offer some sort of shipping too, NO clue on costs, but again, there well worth the investment if you can find one

and there are a few company s making brand new one's, but most are kind of HIGH priced IMO, but should last 50 yrs with decent care, so can be long term investment

I don't know what you paid for a ton of pelletized lime, but I know wed I went and picked up a ton of pulverized AG lime Bulk, for 30 bucks a ton! and spread myself!
AG store was selling 50 lb bags at $2.89 a bag, have to think pelletized was a dollar or more a bag
so, the savings again can add up FAST to justify owning one!

a few I found just now looking near-ish me
but still say the best way to get one is go drive about older farms, odds are they have them laying around NOT being used and most don't need much to make good again, there pretty simple things
as almost ALL farmers back in the day had these things, before bulk liming became the norm! and since bulk liming, NO REAL farmer wants to deal with em!so there dead items to them, and cash talks over something rusting way in the woods or field edges!

First place is HIGH IMO on prices, but they have them ALL the time in all sorts of sizes, they KNOW hunters will PAY $$$$ for theme, so they go to a lot of auctions and buy em and flip em!


https://reading.craigslist.org/grq/d/summit-station-5ft-gandy-drop-seeder/7094786639.html

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/grd/d/laurel-drop-spreader/7092021222.html
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/grd/d/fulton-line-drop-spreader-fertilizer/7092561159.html

 

[spaniel]

well where are you located at??
as I see them all the time, and most all can be pulled with an ATV
have a few at properties I am part of from 12 ft wide one's to 4 ft wide one's and unless really steep land, ALL have ben pulled witha atv 90% of the time, if steep, we will use a 4x4 tractor, just cause, a 1,000-1,500 lbs of lime in a pul behind can be a lot for UP hill work or control down hills on the atv's but we have done it woo at times! all comes down to how steep the hills are!

but you's be surprised how well a atv can work pulverized lime with a good old drop spreader

MOST places that sell them on E bay, also offer some sort of shipping too, NO clue on costs, but again, there well worth the investment if you can find one

and there are a few company s making brand new one's, but most are kind of HIGH priced IMO, but should last 50 yrs with decent care, so can be long term investment

I don't know what you paid for a ton of pelletized lime, but I know wed I went and picked up a ton of pulverized AG lime Bulk, for 30 bucks a ton! and spread myself!
AG store was selling 50 lb bags at $2.89 a bag, have to think pelletized was a dollar or more a bag
so, the savings again can add up FAST to justify owning one!

a few I found just now looking near-ish me
but still say the best way to get one is go drive about older farms, odds are they have them laying around NOT being used and most don't need much to make good again, there pretty simple things
as almost ALL farmers back in the day had these things, before bulk liming became the norm! and since bulk liming, NO REAL farmer wants to deal with em!so there dead items to them, and cash talks over something rusting way in the woods or field edges!

First place is HIGH IMO on prices, but they have them ALL the time in all sorts of sizes, they KNOW hunters will PAY $$$$ for theme, so they go to a lot of auctions and buy em and flip em!


https://reading.craigslist.org/grq/d/summit-station-5ft-gandy-drop-seeder/7094786639.html

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/grd/d/laurel-drop-spreader/7092021222.html
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/grd/d/fulton-line-drop-spreader-fertilizer/7092561159.html

Indiana. Stuff you're sharing is many hundreds of miles east. Very different country here, things went big corporate 30 years ago. Most of the small ag stuff went for steel recycling during the Great Recession. Really hard to find stuff like that here, went to the big machines long long ago. That, and on my ground a tow-behind would sink to the axles except July-Sept. There is a reason my ground is not agricultural...

That and you have to remember I've got a locked gate on a property 70 miles away....not straightforward to getting lime just dropped there. Coupled with road access so sketchy I'm not sure a real truck wouldn't turn away and refuse to deliver. I'm not doing it this way because I haven't thought through the options.

 

[MRBB]

well, since you didn;t list where your at, I just showed what I found real quick near me, and soem ain't that close to me iether!

I also bought my current truck in north IN, about 700 miles from me (they delivered it for free to my drive way) and I am on the far north east side of PA
I have found some of these drop spreaders in places like ND and SD and MO, while on hunts out there, so I still say, there out there
many I have found are from the early 1960's too and still working just fine today!
long before BIG equipment was made, they still used them!
and again thing can always be shipped?
I also have some pretty swampy places that are subject to weather on getting on them or not
but in all my times, if I can drive a ATV on them, I can also pull a spreader, have yet to have issues, as if its too muddy to do so, the atv is also sinking in just as much when loaded with weight using a broadcast spreader like on your UTV!
30+ yrs of farming/doing food plots here! on countless types and locations of properties , be them ,wet, dry, rocky, hilly,level, or you name it!
I have also have gated and places I live miles away from, and I have had bulk lime show up when I AM there! hasn't been a issue yet, just takes planning!
so, I get remote places too and just saying, some times there are better ways to skin a cat!, as I also have NO clue what you know or don't!

and don't forget ,you CAN spread lime in winter time, that s nothing new! to do! done all the time here , as most springs here are super swampy, and hard to get lime down before planting and working ground in with it@

just saying/trying to help!

 

[spaniel]

well, since you didn;t list where your at, I just showed what I found real quick near me, and soem ain't that close to me iether!

I also bought my current truck in north IN, about 700 miles from me (they delivered it for free to my drive way) and I am on the far north east side of PA
I have found some of these drop spreaders in places like ND and SD and MO, while on hunts out there, so I still say, there out there
many I have found are from the early 1960's too and still working just fine today!
long before BIG equipment was made, they still used them!
and again thing can always be shipped?
I also have some pretty swampy places that are subject to weather on getting on them or not
but in all my times, if I can drive a ATV on them, I can also pull a spreader, have yet to have issues, as if its too muddy to do so, the atv is also sinking in just as much when loaded with weight using a broadcast spreader like on your UTV!
30+ yrs of farming/doing food plots here! on countless types and locations of properties , be them ,wet, dry, rocky, hilly,level, or you name it!
I have also have gated and places I live miles away from, and I have had bulk lime show up when I AM there! hasn't been a issue yet, just takes planning!
so, I get remote places too and just saying, some times there are better ways to skin a cat!, as I also have NO clue what you know or don't!

and don't forget ,you CAN spread lime in winter time, that s nothing new! to do! done all the time here , as most springs here are super swampy, and hard to get lime down before planting and working ground in with it@

just saying/trying to help!

Glad you have the work flexibility to open gates a 3 hour round trip away at whim. Glad for you that you can get people to ship lime spreaders hundreds of miles and feel this is economical. I guess some of us just aren't smart enough to figure this out, and think there are more convenient ways to address the issue that work with our lives...didn't ask for and don't need this kind of "help". I'm actually insulted you don't think I didn't work through the options.

In case I didn't make it clear, I've been told there is a high likelihood local bulk lime provider would refuse to deliver due to condition of the access road regardless of whether I unlock the gate. I'm done with this discussion.

 

[MRBB]

Glad you have the work flexibility to open gates a 3 hour round trip away at whim. Glad for you that you can get people to ship lime spreaders hundreds of miles and feel this is economical. I guess some of us just aren't smart enough to figure this out, and think there are more convenient ways to address the issue that work with our lives...didn't ask for and don't need this kind of "help". I'm actually insulted you don't think I didn't work through the options.

In case I didn't make it clear, I've been told there is a high likelihood local bulk lime provider would refuse to deliver due to condition of the access road regardless of whether I unlock the gate. I'm done with this discussion.

WOW< just WOW< you sure seem to have taken me trying to offer some help and suggestions here?
I would hate to go thru life like you so easy to get mad at someone that offered advice and help, to try and save you money !

and I also DON"T understand how hard it is to make an appointment for LIME to show up WHEN YOU have time to be there?

maybe you don't know this BUT when you post on a FORUM, , those of us like me that read things have NO way of knowing what you KNOW or DON"T, and we tend to TRY and offer idea's and HELP, which was what I have done
SO MAYBE just maybe before you get all high and mighty and think you know it all, maybe you don't?
some, simple math for you to learn maybe??(doubt it though based on your responses)??
if you can save a few hundred bucks on lime and have something shipped for the savings,(or less) you come out ahead? and you also have something to show that hold VALUE!
as down the road again you WLL be liming and paying MORE!
simple math, maybe you don;t get that either!

 

[roymunson]

Glad you have the work flexibility to open gates a 3 hour round trip away at whim. Glad for you that you can get people to ship lime spreaders hundreds of miles and feel this is economical. I guess some of us just aren't smart enough to figure this out, and think there are more convenient ways to address the issue that work with our lives...didn't ask for and don't need this kind of "help". I'm actually insulted you don't think I didn't work through the options.

In case I didn't make it clear, I've been told there is a high likelihood local bulk lime provider would refuse to deliver due to condition of the access road regardless of whether I unlock the gate. I'm done with this discussion.

LOL

dude. Take a deep breath. Maybe go get something to eat or take a nap. You'll feel better afterwards