does super lime like Cal-Turf work?

[35-acre]

Quick question - are you doing T&M? I thought that I heard or read somewhere that soil samples for T&M should stay near the surface (could be wrong). I'm not sure that makes sense in my head but I have been keeping mine shallow (plus I know much deeper than a few inches and I'm into clay.

 

[Persimman]

I did 0 to 4” deep this time. VTech has a good sampling guide. I did 0 to 6 when planting trees.
Yes, throw and mow plot.

 

[Persimman]

Attached soil test results for this half acre plot. First soil sample Sept, 2020.
Then treated with 1000 lbs Cal-Turf Pro + 400 lbs 19-19-19, surface applied / no tillage. and 3 boxes of Borax.
Second soil test May 2021. Soil sampling generally top 4".
Please discuss ad infinitum.


did I mention I have a cultipacker?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

With out over analyzing the soil tests, and being this post is about "Super lime" I will comment on the PH, .3 increase doesnt seem very good. Now I know the stuff is designed to be a short term boost, so it may have increased it more right after you applied it, then it washed out of the soil right away, not sure. But if you are looking for long term repair, lime it, with regular lime, and let it do its thing, build your OM, which the soil test didnt show what you have.

Me personally, I would lime it 2 times a year, and retest after 2 years. Plant winter rye thick in this plot, let it grow tall, and fall over on its own, then reseed, and replant winter rye and clover for a few years until you can build a good OM, and get the PH up into the upper 5's before bothering with planting anything else.

 

[35-acre]

I've used Solu-Cal with decent results. It's sold at Home Depot/Lowe's under a different name (Sta-Green Rapid lime). I had emailed my soil test to them and they were easy to work with. I needed a TON! I had to apply 520lbs three times. I will say that it worked. But regular maintenance is still required.

+2 with 4wanderingeyes.
Building up a layer of organic matter is key to no-till. So planting things that will grow/die and break down will help. A goal is to try to have something always living in the plot. You can try and seed in some clover but don't expect it to really take off until year 2.

 

[Telemark]

Maybe that answers that question! I could be a guinea pig and split my plot in half. 10 bags of Cal-turf on one side and 40 bags of reg'lar lime on the other. No difference in cost, but a big difference in work. Actually, if I'm going to be maintaining this plot for 10 yrs, it would be worth it to know for sure. hmmm...

That's what I was thinking.

 

[yoderjac]

Attached soil test results for this half acre plot. First soil sample Sept, 2020.
Then treated with 1000 lbs Cal-Turf Pro + 400 lbs 19-19-19, surface applied / no tillage. and 3 boxes of Borax.
Second soil test May 2021. Soil sampling generally top 4".
Please discuss ad infinitum.


did I mention I have a cultipacker?

Is that lbs or lbs/ac?

 

[Persimman]

The 1,000 and 400 are total pounds on this half-acre plot.
Verbal discussion with the soil lab indicated that 2.5 tons/acre (aglime) was supposed to get me to 5.2 pH at a 6" depth. 4.25 tons/acre was targeting 6.2 pH to 6" depth.
So, 1,000 lb CTP times 4x claimed efficacy = 4000 lb equiv on 1/2 acre = 8000 lb equiv on 1 acre = 4 tons/acre equiv. So, based on the advertising and testimonials, 1,000 # ctp should have been equivalent to 4 tons/acre which should have gotten me close to 6 pH. Instead it only moved 3 tenths. Pffft!
I have some ideas, and I had a shortened conversation with a CTP chemist, but I wanted to hear from the community before I spoke too much. What do people think about the before / after test results?


Yes, Virginia, that IS a cultipacker.
-Francis Pharcellus Church

 

[yoderjac]

The 1,000 and 400 are total pounds on this half-acre plot.
Verbal discussion with the soil lab indicated that 2.5 tons/acre (aglime) was supposed to get me to 5.2 pH at a 6" depth. 4.25 tons/acre was targeting 6.2 pH to 6" depth.
So, 1,000 lb CTP times 4x claimed efficacy = 4000 lb equiv on 1/2 acre = 8000 lb equiv on 1 acre = 4 tons/acre equiv. So, based on the advertising and testimonials, 1,000 # ctp should have been equivalent to 4 tons/acre which should have gotten me close to 6 pH. Instead it only moved 3 tenths. Pffft!
I have some ideas, and I had a shortened conversation with a CTP chemist, but I wanted to hear from the community before I spoke too much. What do people think about the before / after test results?


Yes, Virginia, that IS a cultipacker.
-Francis Pharcellus Church

A couple things to consider. There is a lot more to soil science than I could ever comprehend chemically. I do know that lime moves through sandy soil very quickly and clay soil very slowly. It also takes time for the chemistry to unfold depending on a number of factors in your soil. Ag lime is, by far, the most economical for most folks, but with only 1/2 acre, the economics may not matter. Keep in mind that not all Ag lime is equal. The CCE matters. My guess is the marketers compare their product to a low CCE ag lime and like all marketing ... I think the legal term is puffing. I'd guess you are pay in the same ball park for 100 lbs of magic stuff that you would pay for a ton of ag lime. Granted, ag application may be an issues if you are talking 1/2 acre.

The best bet for me has always been to rent a buggy from the coop and top dress with ag lime.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Persimman]

Our local quarry has very good aglime. We had 10 tons delivered to the in-law's land, where I used their Kubby to load 3/4 ton on my small trailer. Used that to put the second lime treatment on the plot discussed here (2 hrs from my house). Two trips means 3000 lbs on 1/2 acre. = 3 tons/acre. Shoveling off the back of the trailer went fine. That was this July, AFTER I took the second soil sample in our discussion. In 9 months I'll do another soil test and we'll see results of the aglime application. This should be the last of the big application, and drop back to maintenance levels. (except I'll be asking to do another bigger plot...)

I am doing more foodplots than ever this year, and they're new, so the early doses are high. I looked at $1600 for pelletized spread in a borrowed cone spreader vs $200 bulk aglime spread by shovel or sprinkled out of the tractor bucket. I didn't realize aglime was so cheap. So yeah, the spreading isn't very even. But it will average out over many trips.

Thanks for all the discussion.
Persi



A cultipacker is a tool for peace.
- Mahatma Gandhi, 1963

 

[yoderjac]

Our local quarry has very good aglime. We had 10 tons delivered to the in-law's land, where I used their Kubby to load 3/4 ton on my small trailer. Used that to put the second lime treatment on the plot discussed here (2 hrs from my house). Two trips means 3000 lbs on 1/2 acre. = 3 tons/acre. Shoveling off the back of the trailer went fine. That was this July, AFTER I took the second soil sample in our discussion. In 9 months I'll do another soil test and we'll see results of the aglime application. This should be the last of the big application, and drop back to maintenance levels. (except I'll be asking to do another bigger plot...)

I am doing more foodplots than ever this year, and they're new, so the early doses are high. I looked at $1600 for pelletized spread in a borrowed cone spreader vs $200 bulk aglime spread by shovel or sprinkled out of the tractor bucket. I didn't realize aglime was so cheap. So yeah, the spreading isn't very even. But it will average out over many trips.

Thanks for all the discussion.
Persi



A cultipacker is a tool for peace.
- Mahatma Gandhi, 1963

Don't know if you have the option in your area, but our local coop rents a lime buggy for $50 if you buy the lime from them. It holds about 3-4 tons. When I was doing new fields, I'd pay to have them bring in the big truck spreader, but after that, I just use the pickup to pick a buggy full and then hook it to my tractor for spreading when I get back to the farm. I typically apply maintenance lime when I need about 1 ton/ac. So, a buggy full can cover 3-4 acres. As far as lime goes, I'm lucky in that I have heavy clay soil. Lime moves pretty slowly and I can go for a number of years before I need to add maintenance lime.

 

[Persimman]

Looking at the soil tests comparison, I was impressed with the Ca increase. I'm wondering if that was only due to the real lime part of Cal-Turf, or if it show the effectiveness of their humic acid addition (polyhydroxycarboxylic on the label)? What do y-all think about the calcium? Normal for lime, or extra good?

The wildflowers / weeds that came up this spring and summer are extremely happy. Rich dark leaves and 5' tall by July 4. The lime and fertilizer definitely made an improvement. Just wish the pH would have done better.