My experience with food plots

[Bearswamper]

Since I just joined yesterday, I'd like to offer a bit of background on what I have learned through the years on our club property. Located in N E Pa on a watershed, we have 5 tillable acres of flat land that is at 2000 ft in elevation on a mountain plateau. The soil texture is very fine sandy loam. Ag zone is 6a. Field lot was cleared of scrub-oak/ blueberry around 1950. Was tilled and planted in corn off and on up to when WTI Imperial clover was introduced. Planting ceased up until 2014 when we started trying WTI sample packs which gave poor results due to poor soil test techniques- (DIY kit). Club member and FT farmer (local) came in and resolved issue with SOIL TEST by PSU, gly, lime, fertilizer, and discing in cereal rye in the fall. With the help of a 2N tractor, old discs, we took it from there by ourselves and have tried soybeans, radish, rape, sorghum, millet, chicory, many types of clovers, cereal rye, wheat, oats, egyptian wheat, sunflower, buckwheat, turnips, and even lab lab. I send in a soil test annually from different areas of the field. The Ph level has since been maintained and only on occassion requires adding a few 40 # bags here and there. Tests tend to show that Potassium is usually below normal so we add 0-0-60 as needed.
Our focus is mainly on whitetail so corn is not a consideration due to the bear population- BTDT. Our deer herd in the last decade would be considered high density. Because of that, most of the crops listed above yielded poor results from overbrowsing. What is working is clovers, chicory, cereal rye, oats, and sorghum (mainly for cover). I have been really impressed by Balansa and even more so by Aberlast due to their tolerance to low temps. With the wet and coolish summer our clover has never looked this good since the second year of ~'96's planting of imperial. This fall we plan on discing 3/4 A of plot that has run it's course and planting cereal rye with red clover for early spring forage as well as a soil builder. We are surrounded by scrub oak, mature oaks so there typically is a lot of mast to feed on. Tried many of the WTI and Biologic products and the ones that were most promising were Whitetail oats plus, Destination, and Chic Magnet. I buy most seeds, fertilizer, and lime from the local feed store. What they can't get I buy from Deer Creek seed co. Next spring I plan to replant the older clover plots using Imperial clover to compare it to the generic white clovers I had been using of late. Been trying crimson but I believe that with our elevation it may be too cold to reseed. I live 10 milles south and our growing season is 2-3 weeks longer in the valley.

 

[FarmerDan]

Since I just joined yesterday, I'd like to offer a bit of background on what I have learned through the years on our club property. Located in N E Pa on a watershed, we have 5 tillable acres of flat land that is at 2000 ft in elevation on a mountain plateau. The soil texture is very fine sandy loam. Ag zone is 6a. Field lot was cleared of scrub-oak/ blueberry around 1950. Was tilled and planted in corn off and on up to when WTI Imperial clover was introduced. Planting ceased up until 2014 when we started trying WTI sample packs which gave poor results due to poor soil test techniques- (DIY kit). Club member and FT farmer (local) came in and resolved issue with SOIL TEST by PSU, gly, lime, fertilizer, and discing in cereal rye in the fall. With the help of a 2N tractor, old discs, we took it from there by ourselves and have tried soybeans, radish, rape, sorghum, millet, chicory, many types of clovers, cereal rye, wheat, oats, egyptian wheat, sunflower, buckwheat, turnips, and even lab lab. I send in a soil test annually from different areas of the field. The Ph level has since been maintained and only on occassion requires adding a few 40 # bags here and there. Tests tend to show that Potassium is usually below normal so we add 0-0-60 as needed.
Our focus is mainly on whitetail so corn is not a consideration due to the bear population- BTDT. Our deer herd in the last decade would be considered high density. Because of that, most of the crops listed above yielded poor results from overbrowsing. What is working is clovers, chicory, cereal rye, oats, and sorghum (mainly for cover). I have been really impressed by Balansa and even more so by Aberlast due to their tolerance to low temps. With the wet and coolish summer our clover has never looked this good since the second year of ~'96's planting of imperial. This fall we plan on discing 3/4 A of plot that has run it's course and planting cereal rye with red clover for early spring forage as well as a soil builder. We are surrounded by scrub oak, mature oaks so there typically is a lot of mast to feed on. Tried many of the WTI and Biologic products and the ones that were most promising were Whitetail oats plus, Destination, and Chic Magnet. I buy most seeds, fertilizer, and lime from the local feed store. What they can't get I buy from Deer Creek seed co. Next spring I plan to replant the older clover plots using Imperial clover to compare it to the generic white clovers I had been using of late. Been trying crimson but I believe that with our elevation it may be too cold to reseed. I live 10 milles south and our growing season is 2-3 weeks longer in the valley.

An interesting read! I enjoyed it. I have a picture in my head of the habitat surrounding your food plot. My head-pictures are rarely right! What's the surrounding habitat look like within a mile radius of the center of what you consider your property? Is there other cropland? If so, planted to what? Mature timber? And the understory to it - if it is mature timber (beech / oak / maple)?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Welcome Bearswamper to HT!!
It sounds like you have a good plan going there. Soil tests are important. On the crimson clover .... our camp is in the NC Pa. mountains. It's an old farmstead that's been cultivated for decades. Our soil is a clayish loam - reddish soil with some shale and also some bigger stones we try to pick out as they surface. Crimson clover hasn't re-seeded well for us either - but it's a great summer forage and nitrogen builder.

As for what we've planted in our several field plots - we've planted everything you have except Egyptian wheat and lab-lab. Soybeans never got taller than 5" for us before deer ate them to the dirt. Corn = bears for us too, and it requires lots of fertilizer, plus it's a 1-season food source. After trying many things for deer & turkeys, we've settled on various red and white clovers, winter rye grain and winter wheat, alfalfa/clover mixed plots, turnips & radishes, oats, chicory, and some hybrid forage brassica's, and a bit of kale. We rotate plots to take advantage of the nitrogen (N) that clovers and alfalfa fix in the soil. Dwarf sorghum works well for some cover mixed into plots, or along the edges of them. When it goes to seed, it draws doves and lots of other birds (including grouse).

I'll send you a private message (PM) IF you'd like to compare notes since we're not too far apart in the northern tier of Pa. I can share what varieties of seed we buy and where we get it from, if you'd like. Look for the "envelope" icon at the top right of your forum page if you'd like to x-change info. ------ Have a good day.

 

[Bearswamper]

No other cropland for 2 miles. To the west elevation increases and is state forest land for a couple miles. To the north swampland bordered by old growth hardwoods with a expansive marshes alongside a creek that turns into ponds- some very wide. To the east same as north -this is where the majority of the lease lies, South lies a narrow but thick swamp flanked by what used to be scrub-oak -now turning into mature oak and hardwood. Camp, food plot, and range are at extreme west end of property. Years ago the scrubs were burned off regularly to promote blueberry production. As houses started being built and small developments began the burn-offs stopped. A typical method to hunt back then was to put on drives with standers sitting in bull pines. Not unusual for shots to be past 300 yards -scrubs were often 2-3 ' high and the terrain very flat. Today those scrubs are now mature trees mixed with patches of thick scrubs. Hunting method now is to hunt from ladder stands overlooking marshes- and the vegetation is getting higher making it more challenging every year. These deer quickly turn nocturnal once the early seasons begin, but feel safe out in the marshes. If you are patient enough you will eventually get a glimpse of a legal buck feeding on browse out there. If you are lucky it will be within a distance that you feel confident to make the shot. These marshes are full of deer runs and as such most of the time only the upper body of the deer can be seen. Sunny days are a must- the bodies show up like lightbulbs and if it has horns it's like a beacon. Canoe or boats are used to retrive or to traverse to other areas. It has been a few years since I tagged a buck and have had many opportunities but I probably got too particular based on trail cam photos.

 

[omicron1792]

Welcome my man!!!

A lot on this board have moved to no till. It doesn’t have to be done that way, but may offer some benefits that could help with some of your concerns. Check out the long thread called throw and mow by crimson n camo. Read foggy, wind Gypsy, and wild thing threads.

You may benefit from over seeding clover with rye/oats/ and wheat every year. More rye than an anything. Sometimes the carbon to nitrogen ratio can get off.

Might consider killing a few strips in clover yearly and planting brassica. They will love the nitrogen and can be candy for the deer. Throw some more clover seed in when you plant the brassica strips, and the clover will fill back in during the spring.

 

[Bearswamper]

Welcome my man!!!

A lot on this board have moved to no till. It doesn’t have to be done that way, but may offer some benefits that could help with some of your concerns. Check out the long thread called throw and mow by crimson n camo. Read foggy, wind Gypsy, and wild thing threads.

You may benefit from over seeding clover with rye/oats/ and wheat every year. More rye than an anything. Sometimes the carbon to nitrogen ratio can get off.

Might consider killing a few strips in clover yearly and planting brassica. They will love the nitrogen and can be candy for the deer. Throw some more clover seed in when you plant the brassica strips, and the clover will fill back in during the spring.

Thanks for the reply. I will try to catch-up by reading the threads you mentioned. In the mean time here are some alternative planting methods we have tried. These are not from any websites but from the farmer member of our camp.
* We do frost seed red and white clover when a plot needs rejuvenation. This works best with 2-5" of snow cover, little to no old crop residue, and near doubling seed rate.
* We have overseeded small seed like clovers in standing grains.
* We have run a disc (straight - not angled) into existing clover scarfing the soil for better contact to overseed more clover or chicory or grain rye. Oats get winter killed early with hard frosts by end of October. Wheat is short-lived by overbrowsing.
* Yes, the deer love the brassicas- so much so they overbrowse it and it never can produce enough bio-mass. We tried several varieties of rape, radish, turnips, beets. We tried planting them early unsuccessfully. Perhaps if the entire 5 A were planted in brassicas it could be viable, but that does nothing for the long term.
So an important goal is to provide forage in the critical time in March/ April when the mast (acorns) is depleted. This is why I like cereal rye and cold tolerant clovers.

 

[omicron1792]

Thanks for the reply. I will try to catch-up by reading the threads you mentioned. In the mean time here are some alternative planting methods we have tried. These are not from any websites but from the farmer member of our camp.
* We do frost seed red and white clover when a plot needs rejuvenation. This works best with 2-5" of snow cover, little to no old crop residue, and near doubling seed rate.
* We have overseeded small seed like clovers in standing grains.
* We have run a disc (straight - not angled) into existing clover scarfing the soil for better contact to overseed more clover or chicory or grain rye. Oats get winter killed early with hard frosts by end of October. Wheat is short-lived by overbrowsing.
* Yes, the deer love the brassicas- so much so they overbrowse it and it never can produce enough bio-mass. We tried several varieties of rape, radish, turnips, beets. We tried planting them early unsuccessfully. Perhaps if the entire 5 A were planted in brassicas it could be viable, but that does nothing for the long term.
So an important goal is to provide forage in the critical time in March/ April when the mast (acorns) is depleted. This is why I like cereal rye and cold tolerant clovers.

Sounds like you are doing everything right! Honestly a good field of clover can use a more aggressive discing to introduce grains in the fall. The clover will bounce right back but allow the grains to get a start.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Thanks for the reply. I will try to catch-up by reading the threads you mentioned.

Disclaimer needed: @omicron1792 was nice to say to read stuff I post but I'm not highly experienced in this stuff. I just read a lot and am not shy to post my thoughts that rarely carry a lengthy track record.

In regards to brassicas not going the distance, i think that's a frequent problem for those of us without a ton of good forage. I like the idea of going heavy on Brassicas mixed with clover and following up with broadcasted rye into established brassicas. In theory, the brassicas should outcompete the slower growing clovers but not prevent them from getting a little start and the rye should fill in some voids especially after the brassicas are grazed hard. Then you still have clover and rye that should come on strong without brassica competition the following spring. The main issue I see with this process is if your rye doesn't take well from surface broadcasting without any soil disturbance or the damage that brassicas would take if you run a disc straight through them like you mentioned doing with clover prior to broadcasting rye.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Disclaimer needed: @omicron1792 was nice to say to read stuff I post but I'm not highly experienced in this stuff. I just read a lot and am not shy to post my thoughts that rarely carry a lengthy track record.

In regards to brassicas not going the distance, i think that's a frequent problem for those of us without a ton of good forage. I like the idea of going heavy on Brassicas mixed with clover and following up with broadcasted rye into established brassicas. In theory, the brassicas should outcompete the slower growing clovers but not prevent them from getting a little start and the rye should fill in some voids especially after the brassicas are grazed hard. Then you still have clover and rye that should come on strong without brassica competition the following spring. The main issue I see with this process is if your rye doesn't take well from surface broadcasting without any soil disturbance or the damage that brassicas would take if you run a disc straight through them like you mentioned doing with clover prior to broadcasting rye.

I don't have the deer hammering my brassica plantings so I do it the opposite. I plant my turnips and radish on the thin side so there is plenty of room for the clover and rye. I think if your brassicas are to thick you wont get enough sunlight for the clovers and cereals.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I don't have the deer hammering my brassica plantings so I do it the opposite. I plant my turnips and radish on the thin side so there is plenty of room for the clover and rye. I think if your brassicas are to thick you wont get enough sunlight for the clovers and cereals.

That makes a lot of sense if your brassicas aren't getting wiped out. Sounds like this guy has trouble getting brassica tonnage to make it to maturity or stick around.

 

[Bearswamper]

That makes a lot of sense if your brassicas aren't getting wiped out. Sounds like this guy has trouble getting brassica tonnage to make it to maturity or stick around.

Correct. There is a deer population explosion in my area. Even 10 miles south of camp, I have 8 fawns in the soybeans behind my house in a small field.

 

[hunts_with_stick]

Sounds like you might need to do some serious doe harvesting? How much money do you thnk you have put into this plot? I wonder if it makes sense to hold off on spending more money until the doe population is in control?

 

[Bearswamper]

We try to trim the herd, but sometimes the herd doesn't cooperate. There is only so much you can do legally. With the swamps and thick scubs it is hard hunting. The conservancy land to our north is open to the public and they don't seem to be able to fill many tags either despite attracting a sizable amount of hunters.
Most of the money initially went into lime and fertilizer to make the field viable again. Last 3 years we concentrated on clovers, chicory, rye and oats. The one thing we don't want to do is let it go fallow again. Early on guys wanted to try some of the more expensive forbs because their buddies had success with them. When they didn't work for us, we concentrated on generics.

 

[Foggy47]

We try to trim the herd, but sometimes the herd doesn't cooperate. There is only so much you can do legally. With the swamps and thick scubs it is hard hunting. The conservancy land to our north is open to the public and they don't seem to be able to fill many tags either despite attracting a sizable amount of hunters.
Most of the money initially went into lime and fertilizer to make the field viable again. Last 3 years we concentrated on clovers, chicory, rye and oats. The one thing we don't want to do is let it go fallow again. Early on guys wanted to try some of the more expensive forbs because their buddies had success with them. When they didn't work for us, we concentrated on generics.

Your on the right path. Can you do supplemental feeding in PA? Not sure you want into that....and I cannot do it here. But.....in a crop failure year like this.....it may be an option?

After playing row crop farmer a few years.....I saw the light and got out of that practice due to the all the tillage, fertilizer, and basically ruining my soils. Sold my planter....and I am a reformed no-till guy now.....or at least as much as practical. Glad you have the row crops behind you too.

This year I started planting more Chicory (again). It's drought tolerant, resists browse pressure, plays well with clover and rye......and is an excellent fall and winter draw. I've also had problems getting brassica to outcompete my clover....especially if we dont get the rainfall needed for brassica to thrive. Clover is my mainstay here....and lots of cereal rye both for feed, weed suppression, mulch and fawning cover.

I think part of the fun in this game is putting all the prices of the puzzle together. There are some other PA guys on here too.....check with the roster to see who's advice may help in your locale.

2 cents.

 

[Bearswamper]

Yes, We can still feed deer (other than CWD designated areas) if not with-in 30 days of any open season. We have been putting out sweetmix from a local mill at several sites during the critical period of mid Feb through mid April. We are concerned with CWD expanding closer, that we may stop the supplemental- especially if a mild winter.
I have been conversing with several site members already and gaining a lot of new information and it is much appreciated.

 

[bigboreblr]

Oats use alot of potassium. In fact, the older AG method of planting oats was to broadcast it mixed in with potash. Keep putting potassium in if your ok with the rice and planting oats.

I used to lean heavily on oats, because it was easy for me to get and deer love it. I blend rye and oats now.

Imperial clover does have a nce improved variety. However, its a blend. Most folk are wowed by the berseem clover added into the blend. Just buy some berseem clover. Personally started playing with the durana and patriot improved ladinos from pennington. Got a home in the hudson valley NY area 5a/6a and part of a 600 acre camp in the adirondacks.

Sold a 8n last year. Consider purchasing a rollover bar for the old tractor if she's in good shape. Most states AG department has a program to get cheap rollbars for older tractors, like 200-300 bucks.

Take some plywood and make a wall around the dicss above them, then install a 12v spreader for those small grains. Can even make some funnels to direct them right into the dics if you want to go fancier.

I have read that deer can have issues feeding them stuff too sugarly like corn in the winter. NYSDEC used to feed the deer herd in the winter. About 8 to 10 years ago they poured a line of feed alongside the road to camp. Deer all lined up, was a real nic

 

[Bearswamper]

Looking at the charts- grains, and legumes indeed are high K users. We have started to use more rye (grain not rye grass) than oats due to rye coming out of dormancy early and providing forage at a time when it is needed most -just prior to spring green-up. Add to that 0-0-60 was non-obtainium this spring.
We were hesitant to try Berseem by it's own because it being an annual. It being known as outperforming other clovers in preference by deer has us wanting to try it. However, with our herd tending to eat almost anything green I don't place it as a high priority to test.
Thanks for the disc mounted seeder idea. We will have to give that consideration. We do have a regular fertilizer spreader -3 pt hitch mounted that runs off the tractor pto. Normally we are addressing smaller plots and prefer to use a hand seeder.
We are aware of the issues with supplemental feeding and introduce the sweet-mix in small portions at a time -hopefully allowing their system to adjust from 100% browse.
Getting a lot of info from personal experiences that I don't know where else I could gather. Really appreciate this site.

 

[omicron1792]

Looking at the charts- grains, and legumes indeed are high K users. We have started to use more rye (grain not rye grass) than oats due to rye coming out of dormancy early and providing forage at a time when it is needed most -just prior to spring green-up. Add to that 0-0-60 was non-obtainium this spring.
We were hesitant to try Berseem by it's own because it being an annual. It being known as outperforming other clovers in preference by deer has us wanting to try it. However, with our herd tending to eat almost anything green I don't place it as a high priority to test.
Thanks for the disc mounted seeder idea. We will have to give that consideration. We do have a regular fertilizer spreader -3 pt hitch mounted that runs off the tractor pto. Normally we are addressing smaller plots and prefer to use a hand seeder.
We are aware of the issues with supplemental feeding and introduce the sweet-mix in small portions at a time -hopefully allowing their system to adjust from 100% browse.
Getting a lot of info from personal experiences that I don't know where else I could gather. Really appreciate this site.

I like the Firminator. William Yancy is a good dude.

Rye is the key to improving a plot.

2lbs of frosty berseem is great in a mix. 10lb bag should be very economical. I sometimes mix 7-8 clovers in at a couple of pounds a piece. Tennessee study showed it was most browsed clover. Deer as browsers do well with a diverse mix.