Bill
Administrator
Here is why I like to keep younger beech trees in my woods. The larger ones need to go, but these smaller ones provide great cover at ground level for the deer, and medium sized ones are great for hiding a hunter/tree stand and producing beech nuts for deer, squirrels and other critters of the woods. Again this is January and the tree is still holding leaves. I have not had great luck hinging them thus far.
Here is some pics of other TSI/hinging work that turns a large tree into deer cover and maybe even some food. The upper left pic is a hinge cut where the trunk has sent up additional sprouts, the upper right is a lower cut stump that has done the same. The lower pic is where a large stump was left after my timber harvest and has created essentially a shrub at this point.
As I went and looked into other areas where I am trying to promote deer bedding. The main 2 areas I was disappointed in because I didn't find a single bed. Now that doesn't mean it isn't being used, but it tells me that I may need to go in and try to make some changes. I will obviously be keeping a close eye on this thru the winter. Now the interesting part is that I found some beds in an area I didn't expect to find them. This area was near a large tree top but the rest of the area was fairly open, but again on a slightly gradual slope that had a view of the large ag field. There was 3 beds on this side and one on the other of this tree top as well.
I did review the north plot as well. The deer are pawing thru the minimal snow to get to the clover but I still am not seeing much use of the brassica. Apparently I did have something inside the exclusion cage in my brassica plot that something wanted! The deer did seem to eat off the cereal grains, annual clovers and the peas however.
In all my wandering around I did also kick-up 2 does as well.....so I didn't kill them all!!! The main disappointment was that I didn't see any significant sign of the presence of a mature buck......hopefully things go better on the south side tomorrow.....
I think sometimes they just like laying in the open sunshine. With no wind.
Looking good around there. I have start following all these land tours closer.
j-bird
Moderator
Thanks Bill.
I agree - I think this was simply a place they felt safe getting a cat-nap in the sunshine when the temps dropped. It's still good info to have. It may come in handy come some distant late season hunt.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Nice tour J-bird ! Your property looks really good. Hinging doing the job !! I can completely relate to your open woods pix. We've been dealing with the same situation on our acreage. Those open forest floors are like a parking lot ......... not gonna find deer there !!
What we did was to log, and started with the defective trees - even some oaks - and left some big oaks, maples, poplars and hickories for seed production. There was no $$ value in those defective trees, other than firewood, but some trees just have to go. We had foresters come and advise on which trees had timber value and we had those logged for sale. The first question those foresters asked ( we had 4 come, to get various opinions ), was " Do you want to improve for future timber value or habitat - or both ?? " We wanted both and they said " it's not a problem ".
What we ended up with is a mix of tree ages. We have some mature mast-producing trees for food and seed, some middle-aged trees that will mature as the older ones get logged in the future, and some young trees for further down the road. Logging was done with releasing good trees to more sun in mind, so they can reach their potential as timber AND mast producers. Logging also cured some crowding issues, where 2 or 3 trees were so close to each other that none of them would flourish and reach full potential. Canopies can now " max-out ". More sun - more brush growth.
I like your brush windrow where the deer are traveling to & from the fields. We are trying to accomplish the same effect with Norway spruce plantings in and leaving the logged areas to give deer cover traveling to our plots and apple trees. COVER WORKS !!!
One thing we discovered - by accident - was that a couple of our big, old white oaks went crazy when we cut some competing smaller trees down and put down a bunch of fertilizer. We weren't trying to feed the oak trees, but the food plots they were on the edge of. What happened was the oaks put out a batch of new growth and had mammoth acorn crops those years. Maybe try that with your big white oak that you showed in the one pic. ?? FWIW. Thanks for all the pix !!
What we did was to log, and started with the defective trees - even some oaks - and left some big oaks, maples, poplars and hickories for seed production. There was no $$ value in those defective trees, other than firewood, but some trees just have to go. We had foresters come and advise on which trees had timber value and we had those logged for sale. The first question those foresters asked ( we had 4 come, to get various opinions ), was " Do you want to improve for future timber value or habitat - or both ?? " We wanted both and they said " it's not a problem ".
What we ended up with is a mix of tree ages. We have some mature mast-producing trees for food and seed, some middle-aged trees that will mature as the older ones get logged in the future, and some young trees for further down the road. Logging was done with releasing good trees to more sun in mind, so they can reach their potential as timber AND mast producers. Logging also cured some crowding issues, where 2 or 3 trees were so close to each other that none of them would flourish and reach full potential. Canopies can now " max-out ". More sun - more brush growth.
I like your brush windrow where the deer are traveling to & from the fields. We are trying to accomplish the same effect with Norway spruce plantings in and leaving the logged areas to give deer cover traveling to our plots and apple trees. COVER WORKS !!!
One thing we discovered - by accident - was that a couple of our big, old white oaks went crazy when we cut some competing smaller trees down and put down a bunch of fertilizer. We weren't trying to feed the oak trees, but the food plots they were on the edge of. What happened was the oaks put out a batch of new growth and had mammoth acorn crops those years. Maybe try that with your big white oak that you showed in the one pic. ?? FWIW. Thanks for all the pix !!
j-bird
Moderator
Yep - I have had 2 selective timber harvests in less than 10 years. The first time we removed most of the junk trees (from a wildlife stand point). My property was high-graded decades before and as such the major canopy species where of low value timber, mostly hackberry, hickory, sycamore, ash, cottonwood, crap like that. We had some unexpected surprises in the value of the yellow poplar and the hard/sugar maple. I let the loggers take of those what they wanted as well. The second cut was mostly walnut. The price for walnut was low in my area during the first cut so we waited. Both times we removed very few oak as I don't have many of them - only if they where grossly damaged or dying would I let them go. The explosion of the understory has been awesome.
I now need to go back in a do some release work of those mast producing tress.....like you mentioned.
j-bird
Moderator
Took a walk with the dogs Sunday just to get out of the house. I went and checked out my southwest area and the deer seem to have taken advantage of my small corn plot.
I did find some evidence of deer using my turnips.....finally. Still pretty minimal - only two I found. My radish have all turned to mush as well, but the turnips are still good and firm.
The corn was pretty HAMMERED as well. This was a pretty good stand for a 1/4 acre corn plot, but the deer and other critters seem to have put a pretty good hurt on it. This was a 30" row planting on a 30 to 35,000 population setting. Good thing I have another 3/4 acre plot not a 1/4 mile away. This plot is really close to some really good cover so it always get hit hard and gets visited first.
Here is a 180 degree pano view
This is what this plot looked like back in the summer. I removed the central part as the corn there didn't do well and I added some brassica.
I also tracked down the basswood tree that was hammered back in 2014 - I saw only some light sign of it being visited recently, but you can see the scars on it. These three leaders are about the diameter of a 2 liter bottle.
The 2 nice bucks we killed back in 2014 we had shot within 200 yards of this spot. So obviously I try to keep an eye on when this get revisited. I have very few basswood on my place, but the deer sure seemed to find this one back in 2014. The deer in my avatar was one of those bucks back in 2014.
I did find some evidence of deer using my turnips.....finally. Still pretty minimal - only two I found. My radish have all turned to mush as well, but the turnips are still good and firm.
The corn was pretty HAMMERED as well. This was a pretty good stand for a 1/4 acre corn plot, but the deer and other critters seem to have put a pretty good hurt on it. This was a 30" row planting on a 30 to 35,000 population setting. Good thing I have another 3/4 acre plot not a 1/4 mile away. This plot is really close to some really good cover so it always get hit hard and gets visited first.
Here is a 180 degree pano view
This is what this plot looked like back in the summer. I removed the central part as the corn there didn't do well and I added some brassica.
I also tracked down the basswood tree that was hammered back in 2014 - I saw only some light sign of it being visited recently, but you can see the scars on it. These three leaders are about the diameter of a 2 liter bottle.
The 2 nice bucks we killed back in 2014 we had shot within 200 yards of this spot. So obviously I try to keep an eye on when this get revisited. I have very few basswood on my place, but the deer sure seemed to find this one back in 2014. The deer in my avatar was one of those bucks back in 2014.
j-bird
Moderator
Well with the nice weather over the weekend - I was literally wearing a short sleeved shirt - I hit the woods to do some TSI/hinge work saturday. It was so warm I saw a small cloud of gnats/skeeters/no-see'ums - whatever they where........not something your supposed to see in my are in February!
I have an area where a wooded hillside is pretty steep. On the hillside I have a small bench where the deer like to bed. The bank behind them protects them from view and they have a commanding view of everything to the south of them. Earlier in the year I went in and identified any oaks - especially the small ones as they can be difficult to ID without leaves. I marked them with some orange flagging tape. This area had some logging done this past summer, but I wanted to go in and thin out/hinge some of the hard maple and hackberry. I have poor luck getting hard maple to live as I have to hinge pretty deeply but we will see. Some seemed to hinge better this time and if nothing else I should get some more sun to the ground and mother nature can do her thing.
This is a decent view of the "bench - it's a nice flat area about 50 yards wide or more and a good 10 to 20 yards deep. This is standing on the west end of it looking east.
This is a close up view of some of the hard maple I hinged for cover and to release a small chinkapin oak These hinges are about 5 feet hing so the deer can easily pass underneath.
This is sort of the view looking south. You can see I have some other oak sin the area that needed some help also. There is a 120 feet wide switchgrass buffer at the base of the hill and then a 15 acre corn field beyond and the deer have a real good view of it all from this location.
Last one. This is a pic looking back across the bench and a view of some of the other hinged maples. There is a very defined trail leading to and from this area and it is fairly common to have deer bed in and around this area al ready. I simply wanted to make the cover a little better and release some of these younger oaks at the same time. This is looking on the east end and looking west across the "bench"
I have an area where a wooded hillside is pretty steep. On the hillside I have a small bench where the deer like to bed. The bank behind them protects them from view and they have a commanding view of everything to the south of them. Earlier in the year I went in and identified any oaks - especially the small ones as they can be difficult to ID without leaves. I marked them with some orange flagging tape. This area had some logging done this past summer, but I wanted to go in and thin out/hinge some of the hard maple and hackberry. I have poor luck getting hard maple to live as I have to hinge pretty deeply but we will see. Some seemed to hinge better this time and if nothing else I should get some more sun to the ground and mother nature can do her thing.
This is a decent view of the "bench - it's a nice flat area about 50 yards wide or more and a good 10 to 20 yards deep. This is standing on the west end of it looking east.
This is a close up view of some of the hard maple I hinged for cover and to release a small chinkapin oak These hinges are about 5 feet hing so the deer can easily pass underneath.
This is sort of the view looking south. You can see I have some other oak sin the area that needed some help also. There is a 120 feet wide switchgrass buffer at the base of the hill and then a 15 acre corn field beyond and the deer have a real good view of it all from this location.
Last one. This is a pic looking back across the bench and a view of some of the other hinged maples. There is a very defined trail leading to and from this area and it is fairly common to have deer bed in and around this area al ready. I simply wanted to make the cover a little better and release some of these younger oaks at the same time. This is looking on the east end and looking west across the "bench"
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
That bench is a nice spot, J-bird. Those hinges ought to keep the deer bedding there. Area looks very good - real " deer-y ". Thanks for the pix.
j-bird
Moderator
I drive thru I- 64 and I-57 in southern IL pretty frequently. All I do to fight it is a little bit at a time. I simply cut and treat stems when I can. I try to keep it manageable that way I don't get discouraged. I don't have AO but I do have JBH and I carry pruners and a small bottle of tordon. I specifically hunt it in the spring and early summer. It greens up early and the white/yellow flower help give it away.
j-bird
Moderator
well I didn't get out to do any habitat work saturday.....instead I pursued another passion of mine. My cubbies!!!! The 2016 world series trophy made a stop in Indianapolis Saturday and I was going to see it and my youngest wanted to go as well, so we made a day of it.
Sunday was nicer outside as well so I DID take advantage.
Burned some of my switchgrass.
I had some cool season grasses and the like coming in that I wanted to be able to address. Th eheight of the grass was going to make spraying difficult.
Stiltgrass and some others are my primary target at the moment.....I did double check the ensure the switchgrass had not woken up yet.
End result....
Sunday was nicer outside as well so I DID take advantage.
Burned some of my switchgrass.
I had some cool season grasses and the like coming in that I wanted to be able to address. Th eheight of the grass was going to make spraying difficult.
Stiltgrass and some others are my primary target at the moment.....I did double check the ensure the switchgrass had not woken up yet.
End result....
j-bird
Moderator
Also found what I think is AO.......
Also mowed my corn plots - lots of corn left.....I think due to the mild winter. After mowing and burning and the like not a shed was found!
Any way after a long day and being concerned about my kids and the coming week I got a little surprise. As I was heading across my field I saw a red thing moving! I stuck in on the tractor for the way back to the house.....I think it added a little color!!!
Also mowed my corn plots - lots of corn left.....I think due to the mild winter. After mowing and burning and the like not a shed was found!
Any way after a long day and being concerned about my kids and the coming week I got a little surprise. As I was heading across my field I saw a red thing moving! I stuck in on the tractor for the way back to the house.....I think it added a little color!!!
j-bird
Moderator
Bill - mine for the most part is in pretty easily controlled areas. They are in buffer strips and for the most part anything else that burns is mine.....woods, crop field....big deal. I set a few acres of harvested corn field on fire once. Oh well.....didn't hurt anything - just looked dumb and ran my butt off that day dealing with it.....corn burns hot! I just wait for dry grass, wet soil and pretty calm day and strike a match and .....burn baby burn!!!! Great tool to control cool season grasses in WSG (as I can then follow with a spray to kill that cool season stuff off) as well as to look for shed..... none this time. I have my SW section to do yet, so maybe I'll find one there! If I had bigger sections to burn I would be more concerned, but I tend to keep them pretty small so I keep an eye on it.
j-bird
Moderator
Well I got out and got some more work done over the weekend. After seeing how well the switch was doing in providing cover - I was really disappointed in some of my other CRP areas. They do OK for cover in the summer, but year round it just isn't cutting it. So I decided to do something about it. I'll have to pay for it out of my own pocket, but to get the results I want it will be worth it. I should have done this in the beginning.....but hindsight is always 20/20.
This pic is looking down into what was there. This area was all goldenrod and other weeds that just don't stand up to the winter weather well. There is no food and ZERO cover for deer. Only things calling that home is mice and voles and the like.
Here is a side-by-side I have share before I am sure. The switch just simply does a much better job.
So I went to work with the rotary mower because there isn't enough fuel there to burn. Plus it also resets lots of the saplings that had grown. Turned it into a parking lot from a habitat perspective. I did however save some cedar trees for transplanting.
I then transplanted the young cedars - I planted them in a cross pattern at about 8 feet apart. I will spray to kill off the cool season plants in this area and then plant switchgrass. I figure the combo of the cedars and the switch should promote a sweet little doe bedding area.
IF this idea works I will plant little "cells" like this in other areas as also. My timing was pretty good as well as this was all done before we got a day of rain showers so that should help the transplants. There was good moisture in the soil as it was, but nothing like a little help from above. Hopefully in a few years those cedars will provide a decent wind break for the deer in that little pocket and the switch will provide that sense of security as well. Doesn't look like much now, but nothing ever does in the beginning states of most habitat projects.
Next phase will be spraying with gly to kill off everything (except the cedars) and then putting down some switchgrass!
This will also hopefully help improve my overall cover situation AND assist in moving some deer bedding more to the central portions of my property instead of the extreme edges or even the neighbors. I don't have visions of "owning" the deer, but if I can get them to spend more time on my place the better......I am also looking at alternative walking/hunting access as well that should help this.
I did also get my apple pruning done as well, but 5 trees don't take much work. And NO - no pics of those. I suck at it and sharing my lack of ability in that would just bring some of you all to tears.....I figure the trees don't die and I'm starting to get apples so I must not be screwing it up too badly!!!!
This pic is looking down into what was there. This area was all goldenrod and other weeds that just don't stand up to the winter weather well. There is no food and ZERO cover for deer. Only things calling that home is mice and voles and the like.
Here is a side-by-side I have share before I am sure. The switch just simply does a much better job.
So I went to work with the rotary mower because there isn't enough fuel there to burn. Plus it also resets lots of the saplings that had grown. Turned it into a parking lot from a habitat perspective. I did however save some cedar trees for transplanting.
I then transplanted the young cedars - I planted them in a cross pattern at about 8 feet apart. I will spray to kill off the cool season plants in this area and then plant switchgrass. I figure the combo of the cedars and the switch should promote a sweet little doe bedding area.
IF this idea works I will plant little "cells" like this in other areas as also. My timing was pretty good as well as this was all done before we got a day of rain showers so that should help the transplants. There was good moisture in the soil as it was, but nothing like a little help from above. Hopefully in a few years those cedars will provide a decent wind break for the deer in that little pocket and the switch will provide that sense of security as well. Doesn't look like much now, but nothing ever does in the beginning states of most habitat projects.
Next phase will be spraying with gly to kill off everything (except the cedars) and then putting down some switchgrass!
This will also hopefully help improve my overall cover situation AND assist in moving some deer bedding more to the central portions of my property instead of the extreme edges or even the neighbors. I don't have visions of "owning" the deer, but if I can get them to spend more time on my place the better......I am also looking at alternative walking/hunting access as well that should help this.
I did also get my apple pruning done as well, but 5 trees don't take much work. And NO - no pics of those. I suck at it and sharing my lack of ability in that would just bring some of you all to tears.....I figure the trees don't die and I'm starting to get apples so I must not be screwing it up too badly!!!!
j-bird
Moderator
Thank you. It's a constant work in progress. Always something needing doing or re-doing.
Bill
Administrator
I like the idea of smaller islands of cover.
That pic of weeds next to switch really highlights the contrast in what each offer.
Live and learn is my theme, can't even begin to discribe the hours and sweat I've wasted on ideas that didn't pan out or I just couldn't spend the time needed to see them through.
The last two years I concentrated on only one or two things. Not setting any records at creating all the changes I'd like, but the ones I do seem to be working better.
That pic of weeds next to switch really highlights the contrast in what each offer.
Live and learn is my theme, can't even begin to discribe the hours and sweat I've wasted on ideas that didn't pan out or I just couldn't spend the time needed to see them through.
The last two years I concentrated on only one or two things. Not setting any records at creating all the changes I'd like, but the ones I do seem to be working better.
j-bird
Moderator
I'm with ya Bill. I tend to try to focus on a few projects a year and try to stay within those....otherwise I get spread too thin and then it all fails! This switch project has been needed for a few years now, but my intent is to get this portion of it done this year. Eventually I need to do the north side of my place as well. I also have 100 sawtooth acorns to get in the ground soon and before I know it plotting season will be here as well. Go, go , go. I will say that I like the idea of working on the projects that will have a longer lasting impact. Tree planting and planting cover and the like sort of things are things that should last beyond my years. Deer don't need the plots. Sure they are nice, but the deer will survive without them and to be honest the resources we pour into plots would be a far better investment in long term projects like trees, native grasses, water holes and the like.....in my opinion.....in my area.
Now ya done it.....the wheels are turning......what if I .........
Bill
Administrator
I planted about 1/2 the plots I normally do/did over the last two years. I'm doing the same thing this year if I still have food when I get back. Sometimes less is more.
Even letting a field like your goldenrod go is cover in the fall. Early fall anyway. I'd love to convert some of those fallow fields to Norway spruce but it's not in the cards this spring and unlike 10 years ago I'm not sweating it.
Wrenching on a car with junior is more import to me at this point. The deer will be around in a few years, in a few years junior will be living his own life then and wrench time will be hard to come by.
