New Ground- how to manage a poor soil, but flat section and turn it into a food source

[DRG3]

We have just been fortunate enough to purchase a new piece of ground this week. The property is mostly wooded with a small opening here and there and some nice trails.

The largest open section on the property is a big open flat. Back in the day I don't know if was used as a log landing, or a construction area for a powerline that cuts through, but the characteristics of it are- sparse, non desirable herbaceous and "grass" very rocky, appears to be shallow. It's also ridge top. The area is rocky in general, and this is particularly rocky for whatever reason. The soil seems to either have been scraped or packed, however the historical topo's do show that it's always been a flat area, so i don't think its been majorly excavated.

The thing is, if I could get anything to grow here, it would be a fantastic destination food source. I have started working a few properties from scratch, but never with a plot like this- obviously shallow, rocky and low in nutrients. It may have even had the top soil scraped off, or at least packed.

So my question is, what is the process for- getting this section to where I can plant some kind of food source for deer and turkey, and what kind of plants are best suited here. I'm in this for the long haul, and may not get it planted this year, so I am willing to go at it as a process, but I also dont want to wait any longer than I have to.

I also have a plow, disc and tiller, but I'm a little concerned about the rocks on the disc and tiller especially.

This is in Western KY- Zone 7a.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Maybe get online with the NRCS web soil survey website and identify what kind of soil characteristics you have. Some rocky areas can still have ok soil to grow stuff but yes a lot of work to get rocks removed. A disc is probably best bet for working. Going to hear a lot of clanging behind you but still way more robust than a tiller. At least it can ride over the top of the big rocks.

Not familiar enough with KY to offer more. Up here in WI we get rocky ridges in glacial moraine areas that can have ok soil if you can deal with the rocks and boulders. Good luck

 

[SD51555]

I'd do some detective work before you get to throwing dollars at it.

1. Ask around to your neighbors if they knew what went on out there.
2. Dig down 2 feet and then dig sideways to see how compacted it may be and what is down there. Is it clay, sand, rubble, etc?
3. Identify what is growing there now. You don't want to end up trying to grow on something that got some 10-15 year broadleaf residual herbicide treatment from something like a log landing or temporary laydown yard for an easement.
4. If you pass those 3, get a complete soil test.

 

[BenA]

Congrats on the new place. Good advice above. The web soil survey should be able to tell you if what's there now was what was there historically. I think a good bit of Kentucky is now on there with historical plant communities. Is it in the barrens region? That could account for it.

 

[bwoods11]

Hard for me to give advice out your way, but congrats on the purchase !

 

[DRG3]

Is it in the barrens region? That could account for it.

I don’t believe so. I’m in the Tennessee Cumberland Ohio river areas.

I'd do some detective work before you get to throwing dollars at it.

1. Ask around to your neighbors if they knew what went on out there.
2. Dig down 2 feet and then dig sideways to see how compacted it may be and what is down there. Is it clay, sand, rubble, etc?
3. Identify what is growing there now. You don't want to end up trying to grow on something that got some 10-15 year broadleaf residual herbicide treatment from something like a log landing or temporary laydown yard for an easement.
4. If you pass those 3, get a complete soil test.

Thanks for this.
The only thing I have been able to find out about the history is a power line cut with some of the great big metal towers was cut across one edge and they worked from that top. Beyond that a section of it was used as county road quarry years ago when all the local roads were gravel so afain maybe they staged on this flat.

I’ll be checking the soils survey.
Thanks all

 

[Wild Thing]

Congrats on acquiring your own little piece of the rock. I acquired mine 31 years ago and it is still a work in progress. I do know a little bit about rocks and my soil has plenty of them. Fortunately, once you get the rocks out (or most of them) the soil is pretty darned good otherwise.

This is part of a 3.5 acre food plot I opened up about 11-12 years ago, and this is one of several rock piles I created while picking rocks out of it, although this is the largest one...


There are also many bigs rocks which have just been pushed off to the nearest edge of the plot as they were too big to lift...


You will destroy a disc trying to disc up soil that has a lot of rocks in it, and the disc will just bounce off of a lot of them and you will need to make many, many passes over the plot to get it cultivated. Your very best friend (besides a no-till drill) in rocky country is a field cultivator which easily pops up all but the biggest rocks. This is just a 6 foot wing of a fold up cultivator which was converted to a 3 pt hitch implement. It has been a great tool for picking rocks out of my soil.


Of course, a front end loader with a bucket helps immensely as well...


Once you get the majority of the larger rocks and wood out of the plot you can drag something over the soil to level it out and get most of the smaller rocks out...


And when you have the rocks out and have the ground mostly level, amend the pH with ag-lime and fertilizer and then never turn the dirt again. Get yourself a no-till drill. What rocks are still left become just a little nuisance as the drill will ride over the top of them with no ill-effects.


Part of this plot was so rocky after I got it opened up, I decided that it would best be turned into a tree plot as I knew I would be picking rocks out of it for the next 20 years...


Part of the 3.5 acre plot I pictured above. By 2016 the soil looked like this and I have never turned the dirt since.




The other side of the same plot. It doesn't happen overnight, but it can be done.


Best of luck with your new dirt.

 

[DRG3]

Congrats on acquiring your own little piece of the rock. I acquired mine 31 years ago and it is still a work in progress. I do know a little bit about rocks and my soil has plenty of them. Fortunately, once you get the rocks out (or most of them) the soil is pretty darned good otherwise.

Thanks you and those are some impressive results.

 

[DRG3]

I pulled up this section of the property on the web soil survey as mentioned above, and here is what I found-


I'm still not sure if that tells me how this particular spot was used previously. Any other key points I should be looking at in the survey?

I'll be able to get a shovel in the ground tomorrow morning, so that will tell.

 

[rocksnstumps]

While it has been yrs since I poked around on the NRCS website there are sections where it gives a range of predicted yields for things like hay or row crops. Also what tree species may favor that soil and site indexes (a gauge of how tall trees will grow over something like 50 yrs) I found that helpful when comparing to soils of nearby fields. It can give a comparison of what your ridgetop has compared to a known area which maybe is planted to beans, hay whatever. The slope of the land impacts that too but it's helpful to understand if your land is half as productive as nearby ag areas or if you get rid of the rocks it's closer to 80-90% of the predicted yield for known good spots. It's a gauge of how crappy or good is this soil.

Beyond the typical profile you listed it should have the soil series name. That soil name can be useful to dig further/Google other things associated with it.

For example my ridgetop is listed as a Kennan series soil. Description is bouldery sandy loam. I find a very high site index for northern red oak (it should grow well) and decent yield for hay. So that gave me some confidence that if I get rid of the dang boulders my soil was not junk.

 

[swat1018]

Dig a hole, see what you find. While you're at it, I'd get a soil test. I'm guessing it will need lots of lime,