j-bird
Moderator
Seabee - I ain't tell'n you noth'n!:D I had an opportunity and I took it.....knowing my luck the frost will be late this year and everything will mature and be worthless! I saw the upcoming forecast and figured I might as well, the rest of August could be drier than a popcorn fart for all we know! I mainly am hoping with the beans still being green that my peas will have a chance to grow and actually provide something of interest to the deer once the soybeans are harvested (which will be before our season opener most times). I'm also hoping to get bigger tubers and maybe, just maybe the deer will actually eat them - cause man they stink in the spring! I'm sure the oats will get too mature, but I will more than likely follow up with a overseeding of wheat or rye later in the fall anyway.....heck I don't know.....I make half this stuff up as I go!:D
I'm sure I have asked you before and I forgot, but where are you roughly at? "West Central, IN" is a little vague......but then again.....
Parke county. I always have great intentions but am running a bit behind again this summer.
j-bird
Moderator
I thought you lived over by Andy Hayes.....I just couldn't remember for sure. I like keeping tabs on my fellow Hoosiers! You still got plenty of time for them fall annual plots as well......Like I said I tend to wait until Labor Day weekend, but I wanted to see what a few extra weeks can do for me.
CentralKyHunter
5 year old buck +
Awesome work , everything you do looks well planned and implemented
j-bird
Moderator
Well - I must fake it well! I have tried to have a "plan" but I also tend to make things up as I go as well.....just like my recent fall plot planting......sometimes we have to "wing it" to keep things interesting.
j-bird
Moderator
I wanted to talk about some of the "problem children" I deal with on my place.....Invasive plants!
We all have plants growing in places we don't want - by definition that is a "weed". Clover in your yard....weed! Clover in your plot....not a weed.
In my woods or at the edges of it where there is some sunlight - Japanese Bush Honeysuckle.
This stuff is TERRIBLE! It flowers in late spring early summer and those flowers look like honeysuckle, the red berries form in the fall and the birds will carry them everywhere. The woody stems are hollow and the shrub tends to green up before most others in the spring and remain green longer than most others in the fall as well. The roots produce a chemical that limits other plant growth as well. I actually "hunt" this plant on my place. My neighbors have it and it can spread quickly. The only real way I have found to kill it is to cut the stems and treat them (I use Tordon). I have never seen deer browse this plant and they will use it for cover, but there are far better options out there for cover for deer.
In my CRP areas the two biggest issue plants I have are Canada Thistle & Johnsongrass. Both are perennial plants that spread by both seed and root system, both can be difficult to kill until the energy stored in the root system is consumed. Yes you can manage these with mowing - but I find these in areas I want to grow tall and provide cover for wildlife.
Canada Thistle:
Perennial broadleaf plant - Best way I deal with thistle is to use a product called "crossbow" or "crossroad" this is essentially a brush killer. I use this because basic 2,4D doesn't seem to have the "punch" it takes to kill thistle.....it will knock it back, but it tends to not kill it. Like any "weed" it's best killed when it is young - it becomes actively growing in the spring and fairly early as it likes the cooler temps.
Johnsongrass:
Perennial - rhizomonus grass - Best way I deal with johnsongrass is with a grass selective herbicide (cleth). I like to add a crop oil and some AMS when I know I'm trying to kill grasses. Again killing it while it's small is far easier. This plant grows rapidly in the heat of the summer.....I swear you can watch it grow! The white "vein" or "rib" in the blade of the grass is a ID flag for this grass. Do NOT try to control this plant with tillage, because of the rhizomes in the root system, chopping the roots simply tends to make more plants! You would have to do repeated tillage to to get all those rhizomes killed and many simply don't have the time for that. This plant was introduced to this country as a cattle forage for the southeastern part of the country during the Johnson administration....and thus the name. They liked the fact that it grow so well in the heat and humid conditions.....well they quickly found out that it can quickly displace native plants once it escapes a controlled environment.
I will try to do little "blurbs" about various plants as I go along or when the mood hits me.
We all have plants growing in places we don't want - by definition that is a "weed". Clover in your yard....weed! Clover in your plot....not a weed.
In my woods or at the edges of it where there is some sunlight - Japanese Bush Honeysuckle.
This stuff is TERRIBLE! It flowers in late spring early summer and those flowers look like honeysuckle, the red berries form in the fall and the birds will carry them everywhere. The woody stems are hollow and the shrub tends to green up before most others in the spring and remain green longer than most others in the fall as well. The roots produce a chemical that limits other plant growth as well. I actually "hunt" this plant on my place. My neighbors have it and it can spread quickly. The only real way I have found to kill it is to cut the stems and treat them (I use Tordon). I have never seen deer browse this plant and they will use it for cover, but there are far better options out there for cover for deer.
In my CRP areas the two biggest issue plants I have are Canada Thistle & Johnsongrass. Both are perennial plants that spread by both seed and root system, both can be difficult to kill until the energy stored in the root system is consumed. Yes you can manage these with mowing - but I find these in areas I want to grow tall and provide cover for wildlife.
Canada Thistle:
Perennial broadleaf plant - Best way I deal with thistle is to use a product called "crossbow" or "crossroad" this is essentially a brush killer. I use this because basic 2,4D doesn't seem to have the "punch" it takes to kill thistle.....it will knock it back, but it tends to not kill it. Like any "weed" it's best killed when it is young - it becomes actively growing in the spring and fairly early as it likes the cooler temps.
Johnsongrass:
Perennial - rhizomonus grass - Best way I deal with johnsongrass is with a grass selective herbicide (cleth). I like to add a crop oil and some AMS when I know I'm trying to kill grasses. Again killing it while it's small is far easier. This plant grows rapidly in the heat of the summer.....I swear you can watch it grow! The white "vein" or "rib" in the blade of the grass is a ID flag for this grass. Do NOT try to control this plant with tillage, because of the rhizomes in the root system, chopping the roots simply tends to make more plants! You would have to do repeated tillage to to get all those rhizomes killed and many simply don't have the time for that. This plant was introduced to this country as a cattle forage for the southeastern part of the country during the Johnson administration....and thus the name. They liked the fact that it grow so well in the heat and humid conditions.....well they quickly found out that it can quickly displace native plants once it escapes a controlled environment.
I will try to do little "blurbs" about various plants as I go along or when the mood hits me.
j-bird
Moderator
Ok - I know some folks shake their heads at how I can plant small plots and not have the deer destroy them. It is VERY simple......overwhelming volume!
This was taken over the weekend. This is a 180 degree view of my South upper field and my SW field.
So just on my property, and just in that area I have 50 acres of full season soybeans. That doesn't include my field to the north (another 20 acres of beans) or my south bottom field (another 15 acres of corn). And that is just my place! You look at the big picture of my area and it's everywhere! Now considering I have low deer numbers on top of that......that is how I can plant 1/4 and 1/2 acre soybean plots and get away with it. This volume of ag also has changed and influenced my plotting efforts as well.
Before we get into plots - I wanted to post this up. It's a soil map of my place. It lists all the soil types, the slopes and all sorts of information about my "dirt". I don;t recall where I got this from off the web - but if I locate it again I will post the site here in an edit.
Ok - back to plotting. When I first got into QDM all you hear about is "year round nutrition" - and I still believe that is very important......however, that nutrition doesn't have to come from me! As obvious as all the ag crops are - I didn't see it. Early on I focused on providing that year round nutrition in my plots and I was driving myself crazy in the process because my plotting acres are limited - I really needed to dedicate as much as I can to cover (my limiting habitat resource). The cash rent we get for the farm ground is a significant boost to our household income, so walking away from that was/is not an option (CRP pays me a rent that matches what I would make in farming rental). One day it hit me......"Why an I worried about summertime forage?" I am surrounded by the largest summer forage plot I could imagine!!!! On top of that deer season doesn't open until October.....so I have NO worry about those deer being killed until then. Now I will also say I have seen significant advances in farming as far as harvest goes. Years ago you would swear that combine had a hole in it. Missed corn and beans made ag fields destinations for deer. To some extent they still are, but not like in the past. Now you have to really look and look hard for a dropped ear of corn, in the past you couldn't walk 30 yards and not see one.
Since then I don't worry about summer time forage - the neighbors can feed the deer in the summer time! I focus on spring, fall and winter, and try to offer things they can;t get other places. Now that said, I don't have winters like MN or WI, I typically don't get feet of snow on the ground at a time. So now I plot in an effort to provide a winter grain (typically corn) and then fall annual plots of cereal grains and brassica, and then my perennial plots for spring and fall as well. Now my deer don't hammer brassica. They have started to eat it some, but for the most part it just rots. However it is good for the soil and they are a cheap winter insurance - should my corn not produce or we get a strange winter of deep snow or a prolonged winter. I also try to get my plots to do double duty. My perennial plots are also small fruit orchards and my annual plots will be spring planted to produce my fall/winter grain and then they will be broadcast or otherwise seeded with my fall annuals as well. I tell everyone, "If my deer starve - it's because they are stupid!"
This may not apply to many folks - but it's how sometimes the obvious.....isn't so obvious. It also demonstrates how you can use what is going on with neighboring properties to your advantage. The other thing I do is I plant about 2 weeks after the neighboring farmers do. That is for good reason. When those farmers plant I want their fields to have germinated and start drawing the deer to them. This pulls deer off of my place and reduces the chances of the deer hammering my little plots as they germinate and develop thru to more delicate growth stages. I have done a similar thing this fall. All my beans are still very green, but I planted my peas in hopes that the deer will remain focused on the beans until the peas can reach a decent size. Once the beans start to yellow the deer will shift to other food sources and hopefully my peas will be advanced enough to at least still be a draw come hunting season. They may not and I am OK with that, that is why I plant different foods.....and provide that diversity - so the deer have something to eat all the time. I'm just willing to let the neighbors feed the deer when the deer can't be hunted
This was taken over the weekend. This is a 180 degree view of my South upper field and my SW field.
So just on my property, and just in that area I have 50 acres of full season soybeans. That doesn't include my field to the north (another 20 acres of beans) or my south bottom field (another 15 acres of corn). And that is just my place! You look at the big picture of my area and it's everywhere! Now considering I have low deer numbers on top of that......that is how I can plant 1/4 and 1/2 acre soybean plots and get away with it. This volume of ag also has changed and influenced my plotting efforts as well.
Before we get into plots - I wanted to post this up. It's a soil map of my place. It lists all the soil types, the slopes and all sorts of information about my "dirt". I don;t recall where I got this from off the web - but if I locate it again I will post the site here in an edit.
Ok - back to plotting. When I first got into QDM all you hear about is "year round nutrition" - and I still believe that is very important......however, that nutrition doesn't have to come from me! As obvious as all the ag crops are - I didn't see it. Early on I focused on providing that year round nutrition in my plots and I was driving myself crazy in the process because my plotting acres are limited - I really needed to dedicate as much as I can to cover (my limiting habitat resource). The cash rent we get for the farm ground is a significant boost to our household income, so walking away from that was/is not an option (CRP pays me a rent that matches what I would make in farming rental). One day it hit me......"Why an I worried about summertime forage?" I am surrounded by the largest summer forage plot I could imagine!!!! On top of that deer season doesn't open until October.....so I have NO worry about those deer being killed until then. Now I will also say I have seen significant advances in farming as far as harvest goes. Years ago you would swear that combine had a hole in it. Missed corn and beans made ag fields destinations for deer. To some extent they still are, but not like in the past. Now you have to really look and look hard for a dropped ear of corn, in the past you couldn't walk 30 yards and not see one.
Since then I don't worry about summer time forage - the neighbors can feed the deer in the summer time! I focus on spring, fall and winter, and try to offer things they can;t get other places. Now that said, I don't have winters like MN or WI, I typically don't get feet of snow on the ground at a time. So now I plot in an effort to provide a winter grain (typically corn) and then fall annual plots of cereal grains and brassica, and then my perennial plots for spring and fall as well. Now my deer don't hammer brassica. They have started to eat it some, but for the most part it just rots. However it is good for the soil and they are a cheap winter insurance - should my corn not produce or we get a strange winter of deep snow or a prolonged winter. I also try to get my plots to do double duty. My perennial plots are also small fruit orchards and my annual plots will be spring planted to produce my fall/winter grain and then they will be broadcast or otherwise seeded with my fall annuals as well. I tell everyone, "If my deer starve - it's because they are stupid!"
This may not apply to many folks - but it's how sometimes the obvious.....isn't so obvious. It also demonstrates how you can use what is going on with neighboring properties to your advantage. The other thing I do is I plant about 2 weeks after the neighboring farmers do. That is for good reason. When those farmers plant I want their fields to have germinated and start drawing the deer to them. This pulls deer off of my place and reduces the chances of the deer hammering my little plots as they germinate and develop thru to more delicate growth stages. I have done a similar thing this fall. All my beans are still very green, but I planted my peas in hopes that the deer will remain focused on the beans until the peas can reach a decent size. Once the beans start to yellow the deer will shift to other food sources and hopefully my peas will be advanced enough to at least still be a draw come hunting season. They may not and I am OK with that, that is why I plant different foods.....and provide that diversity - so the deer have something to eat all the time. I'm just willing to let the neighbors feed the deer when the deer can't be hunted
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
J-bird, those maps come from the USDA Web Soil Survey site......
http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm
http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm
buckvelvet
5 year old buck +
I'm not sure you can call 20 acres of something a plot, thats farming. LOL! :)
j-bird
Moderator
Thanks Wisc - I just hadn't looked in a while.....
j-bird
Moderator
Oh - it's farming all right.....but the deer don't know the difference......so don't you go telling them!:D
We rent the farm ground to my wife's cousin.....make some decent money doing it as well. I don't do the farming.....look at my plot pics real close.....I can't drive a piece of equipment in a straight line to save my life. I tell the farmer - I can get more seed in a crooked row!!! He tells me I would be a terrible farmer.....I just laugh and tell him if he keeps it up I'll farm the place myself. He just laughs and tells me to go ahead. 100 tillable acres give-or-take with a 30hp tractor, 2 bottom plow, 6 foot disc and a 2 row planter.......ummmmm, no thanks! My butt gets numb sitting in the seat of that tractor enough as it is just doing my plots. You need to right tools for the job.....I got plotting tools....not farming tools!
If deer where smart enough to tell the difference between farm fields and food plots.... I would put those deer crossing sings all over my place!!!!
buckvelvet
5 year old buck +
Just like that gal calling into that radio station ah? :)
Looks great as always J-Bird.
Looks great as always J-Bird.
j-bird
Moderator
Yep - "why do they put those signs up in areas where people drive - they should move them to places where there is less traffic so the deer don't get hit!?!".......o_O Some folks just don't think!
In a way I see the same sort of stuff in hunting gadgets...... Are they really going to help you kill more deer, or is it going to be better at simply getting you to spend your money? Yep - fell for that stuff early on as well.
j-bird
Moderator
Well I was out between rain showers today putting exclusion cages in my fall annual plots and took some other pics along the way.
Exclusion cage in my north annual plot. Plot was planted last weekend I have some signs of life, but everything was small enough it makes ID difficult...
I took some pics while I was riding along the edge of the woods. Some black-eyed susan.
Golden rod
Ironweed:
Some giant ragweed:
Some jewelweed:
Exclusion cage in my north annual plot. Plot was planted last weekend I have some signs of life, but everything was small enough it makes ID difficult...
I took some pics while I was riding along the edge of the woods. Some black-eyed susan.
Golden rod
Ironweed:
Some giant ragweed:
Some jewelweed:
