Ideas for spring planted plots

[Bowsnbucks]

I just read another thread on spring planting on here - what to plant before July brassicas. Can you guys suggest several plot mixes that would benefit soil building, for N and OM, that would be good ahead of anything else ?? General recommendation(s) for improving soil. We've used WW, WR, and oats for nurse crops and in plot mixes before. We have a lot of clover planted in other spots - looking for something different to add to the menu. What else can we mix with the grains that's sensible ??

We've been using BW for adding OM to the soil for a couple years. Can AWP be spring-planted ?? ( never used them before ). I thought they were for fall planting - " winter peas ".

What is a " forage " soybean compared to a regular soybean ?? Could forage soybeans be planted with something else to make a good spring & summer food plot to grow the deer ??

Open to all advice - still learning. You guys have done this & know what works. Thanks in advance.

 

[scott44]

In my fall planted cereal grains I also add a couple pounds of hairy vetch. The vetch adds some N and OM for the brassicas.

 

[wiscwhip]

Not trying to be a dink here, but I am just opening this up for more discussion. I have done numerous spring plantings myself over the years. Here is my question for those who are on the "spring planting" kick. Remember, these are plots for deer, not production ag fields. Scott touched on this with his reply above to some degree. Why do you feel you need to plant anything in the spring? What purpose does a spring planting have that cannot be achieved by a fall planting or overseeding of an appropriate crop that will overwinter and start growing as soon as the snow leaves and not have to worry about it being too wet in spring to get in the plot to even plant it, thus pushing the spring planting date later than you might like and possibly into your window for your summer/fall planting date? I feel like there are very minimal circumstances where someone would be forced into doing any planting in the spring for food plot purposes, otherwise a fall plot that is properly planted with the appropriate crops should be more than adequate enough to see one through until the later crop gets planted. Not to mention that it costs more money to plant the same patch of ground multiple times per year. I helped my dad put in our first food plot in 1982 and have done this stuff in just about every way imaginable, lets hear others thoughts on this, pros and cons, extenuating circumstances.

And BTW, "I just like 'tractor time' so it's ok" is not a compelling reason, even though it is fun.

 

[bueller]

Bowsnbucks, I haven't found anything that works better for us during the months of June, July, and into August than buckwheat. Fall planted rye and clover is great during the early spring but quickly loses it's attractiveness by June. I sometimes mix some turnips in the buckwheat just for the heck of it. I want to try soybeans someday.

Whip, Being from an area with a low to medium (at best) deer population I feel that providing an attractive forage during the summer separates us from most of the surrounding properties. Areas with high populations and lots of ag probably need not worry much about providing summer forage. But in my case, I want the deer to know that anytime from March into December there is food for them on my place. It's my believe that the herd becomes conditioned to this. The doe raise their fawns on my summer plots. The bucks take notice and come rutting time they know exactly where to look for the ladies at. I can't rely on planting into a "dead" field in August hoping that the few deer (especially bucks) in the area find the plot for the fall hunting seasons (if it even gets the moisture needed to be up, growing, and attractive by Sept. 15th).

 

[kabic]

And BTW, "I just like 'tractor time' so it's ok" is not a compelling reason, even though it is fun.

I disagree. .I think tractor time is a great reason. I' ll probably plant a spring clover plot where the sorghum is now...nurse crop of oats...sprinkle in some buckwheat...maybe some kind of vetch.

 

[yoderjac]

I just read another thread on spring planting on here - what to plant before July brassicas. Can you guys suggest several plot mixes that would benefit soil building, for N and OM, that would be good ahead of anything else ?? General recommendation(s) for improving soil. We've used WW, WR, and oats for nurse crops and in plot mixes before. We have a lot of clover planted in other spots - looking for something different to add to the menu. What else can we mix with the grains that's sensible ??

We've been using BW for adding OM to the soil for a couple years. Can AWP be spring-planted ?? ( never used them before ). I thought they were for fall planting - " winter peas ".

What is a " forage " soybean compared to a regular soybean ?? Could forage soybeans be planted with something else to make a good spring & summer food plot to grow the deer ??

Open to all advice - still learning. You guys have done this & know what works. Thanks in advance.

What kind of acreage do you own, control, or have good influence over?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'll answer Yoder first. We have 218 acres total, with about 10 to 15 acres that are tillable.

Our situation is we are in totally wooded mountains, and the only other plots are on neighboring camps. No ag around by farming. Forest is a mix of 85% oak / maple / hickory, - - - with some pines, hemlock, birch, cherry, & poplar in the mix. We want to provide fresh green, nutritious stuff to feed and GROW deer all year long. Acorns are seasonal. Apples and crabs are seasonal.

We have established plots of Starfire red clover / 1015 Supreme alfalfa, a plot of Kopu II / Alice / Ladino white clover with some chicory, one of crimson and Persist red clovers, one of WR and WW, and one of PTT, DER, GFR, and Pasja forage brassica. Then we have 3 plots of RR corn ( standing ). We had a plot of BW that went to head and got polluted with foxtail. Turkeys are using that now. Those are what we have now at this moment.

I know the guys will want to plant more corn next spring. We'll plant BW again for sure - maybe we can mix something in with that ??

The plots with alfalfa/Starfire red clover and the white clover mix will stay as is for several years. Perennial plots.

We have probably another 2 to 3 acres that are not planted in crops now.

Brassica plot ( 1 acre ) will need to get something new. Med. red clover/oats/ peas of some sort ?? Welcome ideas.

Our WW/WR plot ( 3/4 acre ) is about 7 to 8" tall now, thick, lush and getting hit by deer. In our situation, what would you guys do with THAT come spring ?? All ideas welcome - nobody gonna pi$$ me off !!

 

[wiscwhip]

Bowsnbucks, I haven't found anything that works better for us during the months of June, July, and into August than buckwheat. Fall planted rye and clover is great during the early spring but quickly loses it's attractiveness by June. I sometimes mix some turnips in the buckwheat just for the heck of it. I want to try soybeans someday.

Whip, Being from an area with a low to medium (at best) deer population I feel that providing an attractive forage during the summer separates us from most of the surrounding properties. Areas with high populations and lots of ag probably need not worry much about providing summer forage. But in my case, I want the deer to know that anytime from March into December there is food for them on my place. It's my believe that the herd becomes conditioned to this. The doe raise their fawns on my summer plots. The bucks take notice and come rutting time they know exactly where to look for the ladies at. I can't rely on planting into a "dead" field in August hoping that the few deer (especially bucks) in the area find the plot for the fall hunting seasons (if it even gets the moisture needed to be up, growing, and attractive by Sept. 15th).

If you have established clover, I think you need to find out why your clover(or other perennial) is "unattractive" during the summer months. That doesn't really make sense, other than it completely dies off in your sand during those months, that is a different story. If that is the case, there are other alternative perennials that you could try also. Perennial plots can and will cover your food needs from March to December, just as well, if not better than a spring planted annual. 15 miles south and west of you, red clover/alfalfa pastures(especially in areas that do not have a large amount of soybeans planted) are heavily used during those same months by not only does and fawns, but bucks growing new bone as well. They were not planted that spring and the deer use them just fine. I have seen it a hundred times over. The usage during those times may be at night, but they use it heavily nonetheless. If you plant your buckwheat on June 1st, you are going to be planting into a "dead field" in August anyway, because by that time, the BW has matured, set seed, and is ready to die on its own, so I'm not sure how that is relevant, since your doing it anyway when using BW? Another thing about BW, in most places, it is not really considered a "highly preferred" forage for deer. I know that deer used our plots when we had BW planted, but I wouldn't say the usage was heavy by any stretch of the imagination. We did it mostly for green manure. If you were in an area with nothing else but native browse and no other "crops" around, you might see a pretty high usage rate, but if you have other options, those options will move BW down the list. I have never seen even a small BW plot stripped of all growth but a couple inches of stems like the deer did to our soybean plots, < that is highly preferred summer forage! As I said, we planted BW mostly for green manure, because we knew the deer would not destroy the plot like they did when we planted soybeans, not even close.

Keep in mind, I'm sort of playing devil's advocate with this, while trying to provoke some thought and maybe save someone a few bucks and a few lost nights sleep for guys who feel bad about missing planting windows because they are too busy to get to their land(or weather issues keep them from planting) to get a short term summer annual planted. Not saying spring plantings are bad, not saying they are good, just pointing out that for most guys, there is more than one way to keep your plots feeding deer year around, and if they plant the right combination of things, they can cut expenses and time involved without leaving a plot with no food.

 

[wiscwhip]

I disagree. .I think tractor time is a great reason. I' ll probably plant a spring clover plot where the sorghum is now...nurse crop of oats...sprinkle in some buckwheat...maybe some kind of vetch.

Lots of things you can do to get "seat time" other than plant a spring annual plot. Mow trails, mow perennial plots, spray, spread fertilizer, etc. Just because you want to use the "iron draft horse" doesn't mean you must plant a spring plot to do it.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

This past spring I planted black oil sunflower in my brassica plot. The deer came in for the seed, and what they didn't eat grew, and it kept the weeds at bay, and the deer stayed in there eating the young sprouts. Then over the 4th of July, I ran a drag through it and planted my brassicas. The seed is cheap, and the deer loved it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wiscwhip]

Brassica plot ( 1 acre ) will need to get something new. Med. red clover/oats/ peas of some sort ?? Welcome ideas.

Our WW/WR plot ( 3/4 acre ) is about 7 to 8" tall now, thick, lush and getting hit by deer. In our situation, what would you guys do with THAT come spring ?? All ideas welcome - nobody gonna pi$$ me off !!

Your brassica plot could have had rye/med red broadcast into it last fall and you wouldn't be worrying about it this spring.

As far as the WW/WR plot this coming spring, let it go to seed in July(does love to hide fawns in it), broadcast a brassica mix into it and then mow it down over the top of the new brassica seeding to retain moisture for your new seedlings and walk away.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Whip - Should have thought of that for the brassica plot. We may have to disc that plot and do a clover/oats mix there. The WW/WR plot idea is one we can easily do.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

10-15 acres for food plots? That thing would be in Beans this spring so fast it would scare everyone! Do I need to remind everyone of my 20 acres of beans video? I will give you a refresher.....

 

[bueller]

I can't explain why but my deer (mature bucks included) spend a considerable amount more time feeding in buckwheat vs red clover during the summer months. Trail cams, personal observations, and exclusion cages all confirm this. Sometime in August a switch is flipped and the red clover becomes a big attractant. At the same time the buckwheat is maturing and its use is dropping off. Sometimes we just need to "listen" to what the deer are telling us. Much like the turnip discussion on another thread. It doesn't always make sense to us but it would be foolish to ignore our own observations from our own properties.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Mo - The 15 - 20 acres is total tillable land. It's all broken up in smaller plots - not one big 15 acre field. Woods and tree rows of mature trees between various plots. I wish we HAD another 15 acres in one unbroken field ....... Beans for sure !! We tried an acre of soybeans once - got eaten to the dirt once they got to 5" tall.

Bueller - We've seen the BW interest by bucks too, the past 2 years at camp. More pix on one member's cams in the BW by bucks especially than anywhere else up to about the beginning of August. We had 6 bucks at the same time eating in the BW on numerous evenings. Does hung in the clover more. Why ?? Who knows. We've made a decision to plant some BW every year there just due to what we've seen from the bucks. Plus the seed heads feed turkeys & grouse, and it adds OM to the soil. Our bee hive is busy in the BW too. $35 for a 56 lb. sack.

LC mentions chickling or hairy vetch in some of the rotations. Are those 2 preferred deer food, or just a soil builder ??

 

[wiscwhip]

It doesn't always make sense to us but it would be foolish to ignore our own observations from our own properties.

I agree with that totally bueller, everyone's situation is different and we know how finicky deer from one area are vs someone else's area. Some guys have deer that hoover brassicas, others won't touch them. Some guys report Norway spruce getting browsed, I have never seen it.

To be honest, MO has some pretty good advice for bowsnbucks. With that many acres to work with, he could overwhelm the local deer numbers with most of those acres planted to soybeans. You would be shocked in that area with zero ag, you will draw deer in from a long ways away with 8 to 10 acres of soys.

 

[bueller]

What would you guys say is the minimum acreage for a soybean plot in an area with a fair deer population? Would using a bag or two of milorganite at planting and again when the plants get 3-4" tall make much of a difference?

 

[wiscwhip]

Bueller, you just need to get some soys in the ground out there and e-fence it, seriously. I wouldn't recommend it for you even with the numbers we have in the area now without a fence though, unless you had a bare minimum of 4 continuous acres, 6 would be better. I don't think even the Milorganite will keep them out long enough to make it to bow season if you had less than 3.

 

[yoderjac]

I'll answer Yoder first. We have 218 acres total, with about 10 to 15 acres that are tillable.

Our situation is we are in totally wooded mountains, and the only other plots are on neighboring camps. No ag around by farming. Forest is a mix of 85% oak / maple / hickory, - - - with some pines, hemlock, birch, cherry, & poplar in the mix. We want to provide fresh green, nutritious stuff to feed and GROW deer all year long. Acorns are seasonal. Apples and crabs are seasonal.

We have established plots of Starfire red clover / 1015 Supreme alfalfa, a plot of Kopu II / Alice / Ladino white clover with some chicory, one of crimson and Persist red clovers, one of WR and WW, and one of PTT, DER, GFR, and Pasja forage brassica. Then we have 3 plots of RR corn ( standing ). We had a plot of BW that went to head and got polluted with foxtail. Turkeys are using that now. Those are what we have now at this moment.

I know the guys will want to plant more corn next spring. We'll plant BW again for sure - maybe we can mix something in with that ??

The plots with alfalfa/Starfire red clover and the white clover mix will stay as is for several years. Perennial plots.

We have probably another 2 to 3 acres that are not planted in crops now.

Brassica plot ( 1 acre ) will need to get something new. Med. red clover/oats/ peas of some sort ?? Welcome ideas.

Our WW/WR plot ( 3/4 acre ) is about 7 to 8" tall now, thick, lush and getting hit by deer. In our situation, what would you guys do with THAT come spring ?? All ideas welcome - nobody gonna pi$$ me off !!

With control over 218 acres it is very unlikely you will be able to "grow" deer from an antler size perspective in any measureable way. Age has a much greater influence on antler size than nutrition. Genetics are fixed. The only way to influence age class is to let young bucks walk. So, without cooperation from neighboring properties don't expect to influence antler size.

Converting 10 to 15 acres into quality food is enough to have a measureable impact on body size for the local herd. The first thing to determine is your major stress period. I would guess that in your area, winter would be primary.

The place to start is perennial clover. It provides more months of quality deer food than just about anything else I can think of. It is also one of the least expensive food plots to plant and maintain when you amortize the cost over the life of the plot.

Soybeans, as others have suggested, are the next thing I'd consider. The forage provides great nutrition in the summer and the pods in the winter. Corn is another high carb food that will carry deer through the winter when mast crops fail. Mixing them can work and make a great hunting plot. That is what I do, but strip planting them and rotating the strips each year will give you the most production.

The problem with soybeans is that in an area like you describe, unless your deer densities are low, beans can be wiped out before they are established. You asked about forage verses ag beans. Forage beans are bred to maximize forage production at the expense of pod production. They generally produce smaller pods. Ag beans are bred for the production of pods.

The question of which kind of beans to use comes down to your situation and objectives. If you are primarily concerned with winter, you want pod production. However if ag beans are killed by browse pressure, you won't get any pods. If you are primarily concerned with maximizing forage in the summer and/or need the browse tolerance, forage beans are the ticket. Which works better for you will be determined by your deer density and the number of acres you plant unless you invest in a temporary Gallagher-style E-Fence. This can protect beans during establishment. Even with high deer densities, if you plant a reasonable amount of acreage of forage beans, once they get ahead of the deer, deer can't seem to kill them. I had deer keep my Eagle beans naked all summer one year and still could not kill them.

In your case, you don't really need variety or attraction. When you are the only game in town, they will eat whatever you plant. The key is to make sure your quality foods are available at the times when quality native foods are scarce.

Good Luck,

Jack

 

[bueller]

Bueller, you just need to get some soys in the ground out there and e-fence it, seriously. I wouldn't recommend it for you even with the numbers we have in the area now without a fence though, unless you had a bare minimum of 4 continuous acres, 6 would be better. I don't think even the Milorganite will keep them out long enough to make it to bow season if you had less than 3.

I may have to go that route one of these years. What about corn in say a 1/2 acre plot? Any chance that would make it and produce ears?