Buckly
5 year old buck +
There’s non so blind as those that will not see.
Hunting headaches
- Thread starter White Oak
- Start date
There’s non so blind as those that will not see.
White Oak
5 year old buck +
As for what reply we are on concerning the distance of 10, 12, 15 feet my story has never changed. The Ground blind was last year , and It has always been 10 feet exactly from the property line . The ladder stand was 3 or 4 years ago and I don't recall the exact distance so I said It was between 12 to 15 feet , no more or less. I don't know how you hunt , but I'm pretty sure it's not an assumption that most people sit in a ladder stand facing the direction they plan on shooting. You stated your land is heavily posted , and I believe in most states you need permission of the land owner to be on Posted property, and also permission to track and retrieve on private property. Yet YOU are so worried you ASSUME the new guys hunting the land lease next to you are going to shoot or retrieve on your land without checking with you, or allowing you to retrieve it for them , that you need to run over there and tell them EVERY YEAR not too. WHEN IN YOUR OWN WORDS " if they haven't been caught on your land.... then they haven't done anything wrong and they should be able to hunt that land as they want" SO it's ok for you to ASSUME... when nobody in THE NEW group has ever done anything wrong....BUT I'm a bad guy assuming somebody setting up 10 feet in a ground blind and 12 to 15 feet away in a ladder stand directly facing my land is shooting on it . Sounds like you have a double standard , and you're the biggest hypocrite going , and the only one that gets to assume . You should listen to your own advice , and not worry what the guys on the lease next to you are doing , until you actually catch them on your land.
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Not a double standard at all. I have a conversation with them every year, since its usually new guys every year. Say if they need to trail a deer on my place, stop up at the house and I'll get it for them. Thats what I said you should do, or have done. Outside of that, whats the double standard? I didnt say don't come to an internet forum wanting sympathy for someone legally hunting land they have permission on and then get upset that they are too close to a property line based on an arbitrary number I choose is acceptable, or that they aren't facing the right way. Be an adult, have a conversation with him about property lines, and then as long as they are hunting legally, don't need to cry over non-spilled milk. But thats just me.. not sure how thats a double standard, but ok.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Some guys are stubborn and won't back off the lines period. It renders part of your own land worthless. You can say "no tracking" but that'll be just before the time your deer crosses into theirs and you need to track. I'm one phase away from saying no tracking to a guy in particular. I'll take my chances. He's the kind putting stands on lines facing into mine. I put more signs up every year, to the point it's getting obnoxious looking. He texts and asks for permission to track nowadays, in the camera era. Hard to know where his shots all take place.
White Oak
5 year old buck +
Yep I see it as a double standard, and you're so blind you can't even see it. You stated your land is "heavily posted" Quite frankly that should be enough to stop any ethical hunter from trespassing on your land without permission . You call it a "conversation" but the reality is , you are marching over there every year only because you are ASSUMING and WORRIED somebody in the group MIGHT trespass on your POSTED property anyway . Meanwhile you're telling me not to assume or worry about it until I actually catch them on my land...you can't make this stuff up
White Oak
5 year old buck +
I hear you Mortenson and understand . I also have a lot of signs and purple paint (means no trespassing in VA). While I do a little bow hunting I haven't shot at a deer with a bow in probably over 5 years. l mainly like to rifle hunt and have switched to a high shoulder shot...knock on wood if I do my part the last two deer have dropped in their tracks....wastes a little meat, but no need to ask permission or track on someone else's land.
I
I think you’re off your meds bud. I don’t assume or get worried they will do anything to my posted property. I see the guys show up so I have a civilized conversation with them, introduce myself, etc and just ask that if runs on my place stop at the house and I’ll get it for them. How’s that a double standard over saying you should do the same? The double standard is coming to an Internet forum to cry that someone asked you to coordinate stands and it’s your property so you don’t need permission, but yet want him to have his locations face certain direction or be an arbitrary space from your property line. Meaning you want your place to do as you see fit, but not him be able to do them same. Have a civil conversation with him about it, and then instead of looking for sympathy in a forum, go hunt your place the way you want and deal with him if there is an actual issue instead of a blurry picture. Nothing wrong with having a quick conversation. Also nothing wrong wanting to face any way you want on land you have permission to be on. But that’s ok... be butt hurt about it, play whoa is me, and get upset should one not agree. Matters to me none either way. Good luck all
I think you’re off your meds bud. I don’t assume or get worried they will do anything to my posted property. I see the guys show up so I have a civilized conversation with them, introduce myself, etc and just ask that if runs on my place stop at the house and I’ll get it for them. How’s that a double standard over saying you should do the same? The double standard is coming to an Internet forum to cry that someone asked you to coordinate stands and it’s your property so you don’t need permission, but yet want him to have his locations face certain direction or be an arbitrary space from your property line. Meaning you want your place to do as you see fit, but not him be able to do them same. Have a civil conversation with him about it, and then instead of looking for sympathy in a forum, go hunt your place the way you want and deal with him if there is an actual issue instead of a blurry picture. Nothing wrong with having a quick conversation. Also nothing wrong wanting to face any way you want on land you have permission to be on. But that’s ok... be butt hurt about it, play whoa is me, and get upset should one not agree. Matters to me none either way. Good luck all
White Oak
5 year old buck +
I don't take any meds...but maybe you should. So when these new guys show up and one of them puts a stand in sight of yours....and he asks you to coordinate, you would would be more than happy too because you're such a nice guy ?. You're right it's my property , and I will do as I see fit , like I have for the last 20 years . I'm surely not going to let some kid with just permission to hunt the neighboring land dictate what I do...maybe you would. You keep saying "there is nothing wrong wanting to face any way you want on land you have permission to be on." I guess you are the only one that feels that way...The vast majority on here , don't agree with having a blind or stand 10 to 15 feet away from the property line directly facing into their land. While it's not illegal , it's just common decency not to do that, but evidently you can't understand that. During our conversation the kid brought up that he saw me driving my 4 wheeler once last season....eluding that I must of ruined one of his hunt. since you know it all, should I be texting him to make sure it's okay when I want to check a trail cam or patrol my OWN property looking for trespassers ? sounds like you would take his side no matter what anyway. Funny thing is he must of got the point , the ladder stand that was 12 to 15 feet and directly facing my property the last 3-4 years was there on saturday....and now it's gone . Maybe he is realizing he HAS to work with me and it's not the other way around. Because he NEEDS my permission to track and retrieve on my Property. So go get you big boy pants on, run over there and cry to the new crop of hunters (that have done nothing wrong) that they need to stay off your land because you're worried and assuming they are going to ignore the No Trespassing signs.
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
None of us are on your property and have all the information you have with your interaction with this guy. I will say that I empathize with your situation. It took 5 years of vigilance, reporting, and prosecution. We got great help from law enforcement. Part of that was due to how we handled the situation. We had poachers kill young bucks and hang the carcass on our fence to show us who was in charge. ATVers thought they owned the place because a pipeline bisects it and the previous timber company ignored the trespass. Many encouraged us to retaliate (boards with nails to puncture tires, wire across trails, ...). We never did any of that. Instead we were courteous. When we would see a trespasser, we would go over to them and "collect information". "Hi, I'm jack, what's your name. Live around here? ...." Eventually I'd take a cell phone pic and ask for ID. We are set up as an LLC. I'd say things like "I work for the company that owns this and I have to check your ID. If you won't show it to me, they make me call the sheriff's office. If you do, we can handle this without calling them.
In Virginia, they have something called a trespass notice. You go to the sheriff's office and fill out of form the the name and address (thus the ID) of the trespasser. I think there is a small cost if you are a private individual, but they do it for free for an LLC or other form of company. A deputy physically serves the trespass notice on the named individual. Once served, they have formal legal notice not to trespass on your land. There is no "I didn't see the sign" excuse. If you see them on your property again, you simply call the sheriff's office and tell them. The trespass notice automatically becomes an arrest warrant. There is not discussion, they are arrested and a judge sorts it out from there. For first time trespass offenders, most judges are pretty lenient. Sometimes a warning or small fine. If there is a trespass notice in place, judges take it much more seriously. Fines are much higher and it can even carry jail time.
My point in all of this is simple. If you let your irritation drive you, it is very tempting to stoop to their level and retaliate. At that point, law enforcement views it as bad-guy vs bad-guy. On the other hand, if you come in with obviously clean hands, they seem to go out of their way to help.
If the guy is putting stands on the line, he is still legal. If you have a chat with the game warden (during the off-season when they have time) and express your concerns. He may be willing to help out and monitor the situation during the season when he has time. It is also good to acknowledge the rights of the other guy when chatting with law enforcement. They see you as more reasonable and balanced. For example, when bow hunting, I often hang a treestand on the back side of a tree from where I expect deer to approach. This allows me to sit and when I hear deer behind me stand using the tree as cover. I can also stay seated or stand and wait for the deer to walk underneath and passed me before I shoot. I'd say about 70% of the shots are behind the tree. I'm not saying that is what this guy is doing. I'm simply saying that acknowledging there are reasons why someone might tells law enforcement that you are fine with whatever he does as long as it is not on your land.
No two situations and you know yours best. If you are in VA, a trespass notice might be in order. I find that just the fact that a deputy shows up at the guys house and serves him lets him know you are serious and it increases the consequences if he gets caught trespassing. For many folks that is enough deterrence.
Best of Luck!
Jack
In Virginia, they have something called a trespass notice. You go to the sheriff's office and fill out of form the the name and address (thus the ID) of the trespasser. I think there is a small cost if you are a private individual, but they do it for free for an LLC or other form of company. A deputy physically serves the trespass notice on the named individual. Once served, they have formal legal notice not to trespass on your land. There is no "I didn't see the sign" excuse. If you see them on your property again, you simply call the sheriff's office and tell them. The trespass notice automatically becomes an arrest warrant. There is not discussion, they are arrested and a judge sorts it out from there. For first time trespass offenders, most judges are pretty lenient. Sometimes a warning or small fine. If there is a trespass notice in place, judges take it much more seriously. Fines are much higher and it can even carry jail time.
My point in all of this is simple. If you let your irritation drive you, it is very tempting to stoop to their level and retaliate. At that point, law enforcement views it as bad-guy vs bad-guy. On the other hand, if you come in with obviously clean hands, they seem to go out of their way to help.
If the guy is putting stands on the line, he is still legal. If you have a chat with the game warden (during the off-season when they have time) and express your concerns. He may be willing to help out and monitor the situation during the season when he has time. It is also good to acknowledge the rights of the other guy when chatting with law enforcement. They see you as more reasonable and balanced. For example, when bow hunting, I often hang a treestand on the back side of a tree from where I expect deer to approach. This allows me to sit and when I hear deer behind me stand using the tree as cover. I can also stay seated or stand and wait for the deer to walk underneath and passed me before I shoot. I'd say about 70% of the shots are behind the tree. I'm not saying that is what this guy is doing. I'm simply saying that acknowledging there are reasons why someone might tells law enforcement that you are fine with whatever he does as long as it is not on your land.
No two situations and you know yours best. If you are in VA, a trespass notice might be in order. I find that just the fact that a deputy shows up at the guys house and serves him lets him know you are serious and it increases the consequences if he gets caught trespassing. For many folks that is enough deterrence.
Best of Luck!
Jack
Rit
5 year old buck +
The Southern part of my property adjoins 3 different parcels all owned by the same family. They pedal a few hunters thru there each year. They have 3 stands that are all right on top of the property line. (It is unfortunate because they have to walk past their small woods to get to them and they pass 3 or 4 nice points that mature deer would bed on) They are no more than 20’ from the line and their bait piles are literally 2’ from the line. There is a cable right of way between my place and their stands. All 3 stands face right into my property. The very first year I owned the property they gut shot a basket 8 that came off of my property. Of course it ran right back onto my property. They called and I did the neighborly thing and went out to meet them and help them track the deer.
Literally after 5 minutes they threw up their arms and said oh well lost deer there are plenty more. I was confused because we hadn’t even found blood yet. They left and I continued to track. 100 yards away I found some blood. I then backtracked and found out where the shot happened. It didn’t happen where they told me and I don’t believe the deer came from the direction they said either. You could clearly see the shot and where the young buck exploded (20 yards on my side) after the shot. That deer was found dead and bloated 500 yards away in a corn field. The next year almost the same scenario popped up.
Every year starting in August I start getting some really nice bucks bedding on a small hill about 50 yards from where they place their stands. By mid October after they pound the stands everyday regardless of wind and run bait out into the right of way by ATV the bucks move on. It’s frustrating to say the least but technically they aren’t doing anything wrong sans shooting over the line. It’s unfortunate that the encroachment has essentially ruined my property but again they aren’t really doing anything wrong.
When I first moved in I let them trap the line but eventually they kept moving the traps onto my property. I informed them they no longer could trap on my side. To this day I remove a half dozen snares on my side. I don’t call them or ask them to move them. I simply cut them and toss them on their side. After two seasons of their nonsense I cut a 30 x 1500’ barricade of trees right on the property line. I then added fencing on the inside of the hinge cuts to so there is no longer any deer going between the two properties. The hinged barricade has exploded in growth and they can no longer see onto my property to shoot.
I can’t see any scenario where I would put a stand on a property line and face or shoot in that direction. I don’t care to bait but that’s another topic. The barricade has interrupted some natural travel but the bait itself has probably done the same. I don’t hunt the 15 acres or so that borders the Southern neighbors mostly because they have stands back there but even if I wanted to make it secure bedding they mostly make it so I cannot. I have most of the woods and cover in the immediate area so most of the deer travel thru my property. I know why they hunt their but I don’t like it very much. I haven’t talked to them in years. I only hear second hand from another neighbor about how much they badmouth me. The previous owners didn’t hunt so this has probably never even dawned on them that another owner may not appreciate the stands there. But from what I have seen and heard they are not very ethical in reporting kills properly. I was told the old man that owns it cannot be reasoned with and I never really tried. You could say I was the first aggressor but when I informed them they couldn’t trap my side of the line and they continued I sort of took that as a line in the sand. I’ve thought of selling many times but the area fits our family well so for now I immerse myself in habitat and find ways to make the border thick, nasty, and very tough to hunt.
Literally after 5 minutes they threw up their arms and said oh well lost deer there are plenty more. I was confused because we hadn’t even found blood yet. They left and I continued to track. 100 yards away I found some blood. I then backtracked and found out where the shot happened. It didn’t happen where they told me and I don’t believe the deer came from the direction they said either. You could clearly see the shot and where the young buck exploded (20 yards on my side) after the shot. That deer was found dead and bloated 500 yards away in a corn field. The next year almost the same scenario popped up.
Every year starting in August I start getting some really nice bucks bedding on a small hill about 50 yards from where they place their stands. By mid October after they pound the stands everyday regardless of wind and run bait out into the right of way by ATV the bucks move on. It’s frustrating to say the least but technically they aren’t doing anything wrong sans shooting over the line. It’s unfortunate that the encroachment has essentially ruined my property but again they aren’t really doing anything wrong.
When I first moved in I let them trap the line but eventually they kept moving the traps onto my property. I informed them they no longer could trap on my side. To this day I remove a half dozen snares on my side. I don’t call them or ask them to move them. I simply cut them and toss them on their side. After two seasons of their nonsense I cut a 30 x 1500’ barricade of trees right on the property line. I then added fencing on the inside of the hinge cuts to so there is no longer any deer going between the two properties. The hinged barricade has exploded in growth and they can no longer see onto my property to shoot.
I can’t see any scenario where I would put a stand on a property line and face or shoot in that direction. I don’t care to bait but that’s another topic. The barricade has interrupted some natural travel but the bait itself has probably done the same. I don’t hunt the 15 acres or so that borders the Southern neighbors mostly because they have stands back there but even if I wanted to make it secure bedding they mostly make it so I cannot. I have most of the woods and cover in the immediate area so most of the deer travel thru my property. I know why they hunt their but I don’t like it very much. I haven’t talked to them in years. I only hear second hand from another neighbor about how much they badmouth me. The previous owners didn’t hunt so this has probably never even dawned on them that another owner may not appreciate the stands there. But from what I have seen and heard they are not very ethical in reporting kills properly. I was told the old man that owns it cannot be reasoned with and I never really tried. You could say I was the first aggressor but when I informed them they couldn’t trap my side of the line and they continued I sort of took that as a line in the sand. I’ve thought of selling many times but the area fits our family well so for now I immerse myself in habitat and find ways to make the border thick, nasty, and very tough to hunt.
White Oak
5 year old buck +
Jack I remember reading about the VA trespass notice . In the future if I catch anyone on my land that will be the next step I take. I did take two two guys to court about 5 years ago . They were in the middle of my woods 50-60 yards apart obviously doing a deer drive , as I approached them they had two stories...the first was they just moved in and didn't know where the property line was (mind you he only owns 3 acres) and was over 200 yards from the property line, second story was "they had just finished up hunting and were going for a walk" . I walked them to the property line, and when we got 30 yards from the line one idiot had the nerve to say "now you are trespassing" I'm thinking really ? if that's the case then you know darn well you were hunting on my land. I proceeded to cross a creek and it took me a few minutes but I found the corner iron stake property line marker..and told them this is the property line. They just looked at their phones , like they could care less. During the conversation I asked their names...The guy that owns the 3 acres said he didn't have to tell me. I gave them a warning , and said I don't want to catch you back here again. The next day was the last day of rifle season....My gut told me they could care less and would be back. I got up well before it got light out and sat down in the back with my gun and blaze orange on. Sure enough a half hour later the owner of the 3 acres and his buddy come walking side by side headed right to my property....As they approached the property line I had my camera ready.....but they must of saw me in the blaze orange and turned around and went back to the house. I decided to nip this in the bud, I called the game warden and we went to court and I had a trail cam of them walking up my logging road the previous day before they split up to do the drive. The judge found them guilty of trespassing. However they appealed got a lawyer and Got off because at the time my land wasn't posted. I couldn't believe that because right in the VA hunting laws it says hunting on unposted land has up to a $500 fine, and on Posted land up to $2,500 I believe. Needless to say I got on the phone the next day and got a surveyor to come out and survey the line and I have posted my property heavily since. I don' believe the guy that owns 3 acres has been back since...at the first court date he seemed worried stating he is a business man and doesn't need this on his record....Now that my land is heavily posted he would have to be really stupid to come back....IF HE DOES he will be getting a trespass notice for sure. My gut says the blurry trail cam pic is the kid who had blinds and stands 10 to 15 feet directly facing my land, my gut said he would of shot on my land if given a chance... In life I've found 9 times out of ten your gut instinct is right....and a small chance you are wrong. He moved the ground blind last year after I put a camera facing it....if he was planning on doing nothing wrong why move it ?. I noticed the ladder stand was moved this weekend....so now he has no stands really close and directly facing my land . I told him he needs to ask at my house for permission to track and retrieve , Same as I ask at the landowners house on the land he is hunting. IF he violates that he will get a trespass notice for sure
White Oak
5 year old buck +
Good luck this year, hope you don't have any problems. I myself have been thinking of planting something along the property line maybe some type of spruce or cedar tree...to block out views...do you know of anything that would grow in shade ? because it's mostly oaks there now. Then again I have my fruit trees 175 yards away so might not want cedar trees
White Oak
5 year old buck +
Chainsaw, The land baron of "3 acres" behind me is the one that got mouthy. I asked his name, he said he didn't have to tell me...of course I was pissed . He was Like I OWN 3 ACRES BACK HERE , just moved in...I said that's an awfully big 3 acres if I saw you all the way up there !. He was like....What is this West Virginia ?. he said that several times , I'm still not sure what that's supposed to mean. As far as I know he hasn't been back , I had my entire back property line surveyed that borders his and 3 or 4 other tracts , it's about a 1/4 mile long. I heavily posted it...and put T posts along the entire line where it was surveyed and painted them blaze orange . I also have a couple trail cameras 10 feet up in trees facing his land. He'd have to be really stupid to come back.....but it wouldn't surprise me
White Oak
5 year old buck +
Jack are you aware of this new VA law for 2020 ?
- In addition to previously prescribed penalties, individuals convicted of violating laws associated with hunting, trapping, and/or fishing may also be prohibited by the court from hunting, trapping, and/or fishing in Virginia for a period of one to five years.
- Individuals who are found to be hunting, trap- ping or fishing while they are prohibited to do so may receive an additional one to five years to their prohibition.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I believe there are different codes and regulations you are dealing with. If he was prosecuted under the trespass law, he has to be notified in some way. Signs posted at "common entry points" are sufficient for land to be legally posted. This is notification, however the individual has to be notified. So, if he is parked in front of a sign or you get a picture of him with a sign or you see him walk past a sign you have evidence he was "notified". Otherwise, he can say, "I didn't see the sign". Some folks have gotten off because they claimed they could not read. Then there are dog retrieval exceptions that allow dog hunters to retrieve dogs from posted land without permission. The other option would be for the game warden to cite him for hunting on private land without permission. Those are the regs you cite. In that case, the warden would need to show he was hunting. Unless caught red handed, this is tough even with a pic. "My gun was not loaded, I was just taking a walk..." excuse can be used.
So, if you know who a trespasser (or even potential trespasser) is and where they live, you can have a trespass notice served as a prophylactic. It is the best legal notice because it was served by and recorded by law enforcement.
So for the kid you are struggling with, I would be polite and pleasant. I would not argue or fight, but I would have a trespass notice served. If he never would have trespassed, it is has no impact on him at all. If he does trespass and gets caught, he has been warned and judges take it more seriously. Even losing in court has positive effects. If you are willing to have a guy charged and take time off to go to court, he has to take time off work as well and has lost a day of pay. If he is worried about having something on his record, he will likely have attorney's fees to pay.
I don't think that our prosecutions had stopped folks who want to trespass from doing so, but it did make it clear to them that trespassing on our land has a high cost, so most just focus their crime on softer targets elsewhere.
Thanks,
jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
No, I had not heard about that one. A small step in the right direction. They really need to reform the dog retrieval exception to the trespass laws!
Hoytvectrix
5 year old buck +
This is a big issue in MO too. Slightly related, but dogs don't even need to have a collar or any ID whatsoever. People just let their dogs run deer as they please, and unless you are willing to SSS, the issue never really gets resolved.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
Unpopular take here.... but if i have a chronic hunt ruining dog, I could SSS.
Not the dogs fault, but if his owner isn't gonna keep him in line, unfortunately, the dog's gonna have to pay the price.
Unfortunately, that makes my take on this more like the first 2 "S's" and not to much the shut up part, so i'll crawl back into my hole for now.
