Fighting RCG (Reed Canary Grass)

[Derek Reese 29]

I just mowed about a half acre of RCG (with a push mower--yuck), after clearing an adjacent half acre last year with a spring controlled burn and multiple sprayings of gly. Right now that burned/sprayed area is a 5' tall half acre field of rye and MRC crimson and dutch white clover that I will let dry out and then broadcast more clover into before mowing the rye later in the summer. There is little RCG evident, except among the lower, more wet edges. I will probably also add more rye. I like the idea of adding willows and may try that in the wetter areas of the field where the rye could not take hold. My issue with the RCG on my place is that it is in and around fruit trees, some of which I just planted. Weed whacking that stuff around tree cages is is no joke and mowing it took a ton of sweat and blood, as it was already ~3' tall but not heading out. I will probably add some alsike and dutch white to the areas that stayed wetter along with trying to get that area to drain better.

 

[Brian662]

Anybody had any RCG up against a stand of switchgrass and have any problems with the RCG moving into the switch?

I've got a drainage I use for access between two hills that is >50% RCG and the hills are switchgrass. I've noticed the RCG is slowly taking over the drainage and want to make sure it doesn't start to creep up the hillsides into the switch.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Anybody had any RCG up against a stand of switchgrass and have any problems with the RCG moving into the switch?

I've got a drainage I use for access between two hills that is >50% RCG and the hills are switchgrass. I've noticed the RCG is slowly taking over the drainage and want to make sure it doesn't start to creep up the hillsides into the switch.

As long as the switch is established, I think you will be good. I have a few areas with some adjacent and haven't noticed any reduction in switch. If anything, the bunches of switch are displacing the rcg.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Drilling sorghum into a dead mat of RCG sod was eye opening. I don’t see how I could effectively drill small seeds with that tough of a Sod mat. I can see how a drill slicing it with coulters and planting a bigger seed that is less sensitive to being buried might have a chance but the small seeds are going to be tough to not place too deep or in a sod mat.

I thought I might be able to just break of the sod with a disk where I want to plant clover or brassicas so I gave that a try today. Holy cats, 10 passes over some spots and there was still sod left standing in some spots! I’m regretting not nuking it and beginning the battle this spring now!

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Drilling sorghum into a dead mat of RCG sod was eye opening. I don’t see how I could effectively drill small seeds with that tough of a Sod mat. I can see how a drill slicing it with coulters and planting a bigger seed that is less sensitive to being buried might have a chance but the small seeds are going to be tough to not place too deep or in a sod mat.

I thought I might be able to just break of the sod with a disk where I want to plant clover or brassicas so I gave that a try today. Holy cats, 10 passes over some spots and there was still sod left standing in some spots! I’m regretting not nuking it and beginning the battle this spring now!

I have been messing with RCG for the last couple of seasons and have found that it's best just to spray it with glyphosate or your choice of non-selective and keep it fallow for a year. After that you just have to spray any kind of breakthrough RCG once and then you are all set. Just let the elements take care of the biomass or thatchmat. So far we've had success transitioning to an alfalfa food plot and switchgrass. I will add that we had much better luck drilling in the switchgrass but I think that's more inherent with the seed and it's need for a seed bed than it is for the RCG remnants.

Some of the above mentioned areas of RCG were super thick stands for decades. It's pretty remarkable how fast a lot of that can break down.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The sorghum screens i drilled in look like garbage. It has not taken well. At first I largely felt that the RCG mat wasn't allowing it to grow but in another location it is doing terrible as well. Either it just isn't germinating well in my soil or I planted it too deep in my efforts to make sure i was getting through the RCG mat and into good soil. I was in a rush and didn't re-check and adjust settings when i switched to an area without a RCG problem as well. I'm thinking I'll give it one more go with shallower drill settings and make sure the seed is around 1" and see what happens. I thought sorghum was fairly forgiving of lousy soil so hoping it's just a planting depth error. Without a screen, my larger (2.5 acre) foodplot does not make sense to plant as it is right against the road.

I have been messing with RCG for the last couple of seasons and have found that it's best just to spray it with glyphosate or your choice of non-selective and keep it fallow for a year. After that you just have to spray any kind of breakthrough RCG once and then you are all set. Just let the elements take care of the biomass or thatchmat. So far we've had success transitioning to an alfalfa food plot and switchgrass. I will add that we had much better luck drilling in the switchgrass but I think that's more inherent with the seed and it's need for a seed bed than it is for the RCG remnants.

Some of the above mentioned areas of RCG were super thick stands for decades. It's pretty remarkable how fast a lot of that can break down.

I sprayed gly on the whole works last week. Curious if you see any value to keeping on it with Cleth and at least having some kind of living roots in the ground going into next year? Maybe something that fixes nitrogen would help break down the sod? As mentioned above, unless i become confident that a screen will grow, i wont have reason to have a food plot in the RCG area anyway.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

The sorghum screens i drilled in look like garbage. It has not taken well. At first I largely felt that the RCG mat wasn't allowing it to grow but in another location it is doing terrible as well. Either it just isn't germinating well in my soil or I planted it too deep in my efforts to make sure i was getting through the RCG mat and into good soil. I was in a rush and didn't re-check and adjust settings when i switched to an area without a RCG problem as well. I'm thinking I'll give it one more go with shallower drill settings and make sure the seed is around 1" and see what happens. I thought sorghum was fairly forgiving of lousy soil so hoping it's just a planting depth error. Without a screen, my larger (2.5 acre) foodplot does not make sense to plant as it is right against the road.



I sprayed gly on the whole works last week. Curious if you see any value to keeping on it with Cleth and at least having some kind of living roots in the ground going into next year? Maybe something that fixes nitrogen would help break down the sod? As mentioned above, unless i become confident that a screen will grow, i wont have reason to have a food plot in the RCG area anyway.

I think it all depends on what you want to plant after the RCG. If you think that you're going to go with a summertime food plot like soybeans, then I would consider cereal rye. If it's going to be something more permanent then I would just keep it fallow. Regardless I would just stay on top of the RCG every couple of weeks. I don't really think anything else is going to really help break it down faster but if you want to have something that help prep the spot for next year you could plant an annual clover like berseem.

 

[chucker66]

Try throwing down some Groundhog Radishes. I did that last year and it seems to have worked to help break that mat up. Its still there but diminishing by quite a bit. The radishes poked large holes in that mat.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Try throwing down some Groundhog Radishes. I did that last year and it seems to have worked to help break that mat up. Its still there but diminishing by quite a bit. The radishes poked large holes in that mat.

This is actually a pretty good call. Super cheap seed that has some good agronomic and wildlife value.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I think it all depends on what you want to plant after the RCG. If you think that you're going to go with a summertime food plot like soybeans, then I would consider cereal rye. If it's going to be something more permanent then I would just keep it fallow. Regardless I would just stay on top of the RCG every couple of weeks. I don't really think anything else is going to really help break it down faster but if you want to have something that help prep the spot for next year you could plant an annual clover like berseem.

I'm still learning and experimenting a lot so not sure what it will do long term. The intention this year was to do half NWW sweat feast brassicas (radish, Turnip, rape, kale), half NWW WHG greens (AWP, forage beans, oats), and broadcast clover and rye later in August. Plant perennial clover/chicory with nurse crop of oats around much of the perimeter. I have all of this seed already.

If i were able to get a functional screen grown this year I was thinking I could hit the plots with cleth for the rest of the year and live with the lack of grasses for the fall. Seems that staying fallow is the most likely result this year though.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My battle so far this year has not went well but I’m hopeful a good kill this fall will set the stage for better things next year.

I came across these two links today while trying to finalize my fall herbicide plan, figured they are appropriate for this thread.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/weeds/ndwcr-files/16-pink

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/sites/default/files/topic/TimberSales/ESRA_Sulfometuron_Methyl_Oust_UW.pdf

 

[Native Hunter]

As long as the switch is established, I think you will be good. I have a few areas with some adjacent and haven't noticed any reduction in switch. If anything, the bunches of switch are displacing the rcg.

This is an interesting thread to me, because I don't think I have ever seen RCG. However, in looking at some range maps on the Internet, it does look like it would be able to grow here. I'm assuming that the advantage of switch over RCG would be that the switch stands up in the winter where the RCG flattens. Is that correct? It also looks like the RCG chokes out everything else (just like Johnson Grass does around here). In fact, it seems like RCG could be described as the cool season equivalent to Johnson Grass, based on what I'm reading.

 

[sandbur]

This is an interesting thread to me, because I don't think I have ever seen RCG. However, in looking at some range maps on the Internet, it does look like it would be able to grow here. I'm assuming that the advantage of switch over RCG would be that the switch stands up in the winter where the RCG flattens. Is that correct? It also looks like the RCG chokes out everything else (just like Johnson Grass does around here). In fact, it seems like RCG could be described as the cool season equivalent to Johnson Grass, based on what I'm reading.

I have repeatedly heard that prairie grasses stand up in the winter. Some do straighten back up after the snow melts, but in my part of Minnesota, they are basically useless for most of the winter as the snow piles up.

For prairie grasses or RCG to be any sort of cover in the winter, you need some structure. That structure might be a conifer windbreak, scattered clumps of conifers like spruce, some willows growing in the grasses, a berm, or even some downed trees laying on the side.

Any of these grasses are useless once the snow reaches 18-20 inches in depth, unless you have structure.

I have battled RCG in small areas at the upper ends of the wet areas where it grows. I mainly do this to get spruce and willows growing for structure.

In the wetter areas that have a flow of water, there is a tremendous seed source that continuously washes down. I have given up on battling it there.

Part of my property is somewhat a headwaters, without the flow bringing in seed. Here, natives do prevail.


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[Hoytvectrix]

This is an interesting thread to me, because I don't think I have ever seen RCG. However, in looking at some range maps on the Internet, it does look like it would be able to grow here. I'm assuming that the advantage of switch over RCG would be that the switch stands up in the winter where the RCG flattens. Is that correct? It also looks like the RCG chokes out everything else (just like Johnson Grass does around here). In fact, it seems like RCG could be described as the cool season equivalent to Johnson Grass, based on what I'm reading.

I think your understanding of reed canary grass is pretty much spot on. It is an invasive that chokes almost every other plant out. It prefers wet areas, but we have had hay hills that have well-drained soils where it dominates. It forms a thick mat that lays down regardless of snow depth. It can seem to tolerate partial shade a little better than other warm season grasses.

It can be tough but not impossible to kill. I think the best strategy is to kill it off beginning in midsummer with multiple sequential applications and then frost seeding whatever you're looking to plant. I've successfully frost seeded both alfalfa and switchgrass into a 30 year old stand of reed canary grass. So far, the stands seem clean of it one year later.

 

[SD51555]

I have repeatedly heard that prairie grasses stand up in the winter. Some do straighten back up after the snow melts, but in my part of Minnesota, they are basically useless for most of the winter as the snow piles up.

For prairie grasses or RCG to be any sort of cover in the winter, you need some structure. That structure might be a conifer windbreak, scattered clumps of conifers like spruce, some willows growing in the grasses, a berm, or even some downed trees laying on the side.

Any of these grasses are useless once the snow reaches 18-20 inches in depth, unless you have structure.

I have battled RCG in small areas at the upper ends of the wet areas where it grows. I mainly do this to get spruce and willows growing for structure.

In the wetter areas that have a flow of water, there is a tremendous seed source that continuously washes down. I have given up on battling it there.

Part of my property is somewhat a headwaters, without the flow bringing in seed. Here, natives do prevail.


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That's a big reason that I leave nearly all of my winter timber work lay. That ground clutter can hold up grasses for 2-3 years after. That, and I don't want to pick it all up.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Disked up some perimeter of the field inside my existing screen to prep for what I hope is a more successful screen next year. I also sprayed the last green RCG inside the planned food plot area and drilled in a heavy dose of rye with a mix of clovers/chicory and sprinkle of brassicas. I don't even really want a plot here for hunting season but thought i should get some living roots going to compete in the spring.

If this doesn't work I think the next step is to flip and bury the RCG mat in the spring with a plow. There is a section of the field that i'm currently using to expand bedding cover that the prior owner had plowed and the RCG is not fighting too hard to get back into it. I hit the buried RCG sod layer when digging trees in this spring. It would be nice to have a fresh slate, smooth out the field for planting, and hopefully be mostly rid of this crap.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Disked up some perimeter of the field inside my existing screen to prep for what I hope is a more successful screen next year. I also sprayed the last green RCG inside the planned food plot area and drilled in a heavy dose of rye with a mix of clovers/chicory and sprinkle of brassicas. I don't even really want a plot here for hunting season but thought i should get some living roots going to compete in the spring.

If this doesn't work I think the next step is to flip and bury the RCG mat in the spring with a plow. There is a section of the field that i'm currently using to expand bedding cover that the prior owner had plowed and the RCG is not fighting too hard to get back into it. I hit the buried RCG sod layer when digging trees in this spring. It would be nice to have a fresh slate, smooth out the field for planting, and hopefully be mostly rid of this crap.

Just wondering if you think that running a PTO-driven tiller over the ground down a few inches, as in the same step of you plowing, would do any good to break up the rhizomes? I still have half a field of RCG that was too wet last fall for the WR to take hold in and I need to come up with a plan before getting too carried away trying to make it a food plot.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I am going to try this strategy this week: neighbor has a tractor with a mower deck and a rear tine tiller . I have some nasty carpet-like weed growing in with a fair amount of RCG on 1/3 of my front field. I am going to have him mow everything as low as possible and till down a couple inches at the same time to try to rip up the rhizomes, then wait a week or so for any residual growth/seeds to pop, then spray it and plant heavily with WR. If it doesn't work, I am only out the 20$ for the rye and can try again in the spring. Any thoughts?
You can see the start of the thicker weeds/RCG in the bottom left stretching to the middle right of this picture.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I am going to try this strategy this week: neighbor has a tractor with a mower deck and a rear tine tiller . I have some nasty carpet-like weed growing in with a fair amount of RCG on 1/3 of my front field. I am going to have him mow everything as low as possible and till down a couple inches at the same time to try to rip up the rhizomes, then wait a week or so for any residual growth/seeds to pop, then spray it and plant heavily with WR. If it doesn't work, I am only out the 20$ for the rye and can try again in the spring. Any thoughts?
You can see the start of the thicker weeds/RCG in the bottom left stretching to the middle right of this picture.
View attachment 46090

Sounds like a good idea. The thing I’d be concerned with is 1 week not being enough time to get all the potential fresh RCG growth to be up susceptible to roundup. I’d be worried about planting and then having a bunch of it germ or start growing from rhizomes at the same time as your rye if only giving it a week before spraying.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Sounds like a good idea. The thing I’d be concerned with is 1 week not being enough time to get all the potential fresh RCG growth out and susceptible to herbicide. I’d be worried about killing some, planting, then having a bunch of it germ or start growing from rhizomes at the same time as your rye.

I can wait longer on the spraying...I can wait into October as I know the RCG is a warm season plant..but I want to get some growth out of the Rye before those late October frosts start sneaking in...