Existing thick pasture stand to food plot how to?

[Derek Reese 29]

So In talking to my father in law he has agreed to help me put in a half acre food plot in an old existing pasture. Right now it is just thick weeds about 2-3’ high. We have access to a brush hog, 4 wheeler sprayer and a nice 6 foot tiller (though I think he is hesitant to use it).
My plan, before I saw how thick the grass/weeds were, was to have him mow it in early July then come back towards the end of July and broadcast a combo of alsike, bearcat red, mammoth red, and MRC along with a brassica mix. I would also spray at seeding time with 4 oz/gal gly to smoke any new weeds. Then around or a little before Labor Day I would come back and broadcast a 50lb bag of rye. Trying to cover all my bases here, but am worried about the seed to soil contact with such a heavy thatch layer (especially using a brush hog). I think the clover/brassica seeds would be small enough to get down to the soil, but would you all think that lightly tilling (possibly the same day as the mowing like max 3-4” depth) would help or if I can truly just go spray and throw on this plot? Thanks in advance fellas.

 

[Bill]

I would bet if you brush hogged waited 2 weeks and brush hogged again you would break the dead dry weeds up pretty well.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I would bet if you brush hogged waited 2 weeks and brush hogged again you would break the dead dry weeds up pretty well.

That sounds good.. then wait 2 weeks and spray? Bet chopping up that thatch would let some weeds jump? And we could probably set the brush hog lower the 2nd time around…

 

[Bill]

That sounds good.. then wait 2 weeks and spray? Bet chopping up that thatch would let some weeds jump? And we could probably set the brush hog lower the 2nd time around…

That’s what I would try. As hot as it’s been that thatch should dry down quick.

 

[T-Max]

I would mow now for sure. Then mow again. And maybe again. How long has it been weeds?


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[Derek Reese 29]

I would mow now for sure. Then mow again. And maybe again. How long has it been weeds?


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Probably 10+ years at least but my FIL mows it every year. Thankfully he likes to run his tractor and brush hog so multiple mowings shouldn’t be an issue…

 

[T-Max]

Probably 10+ years at least but my FIL mows it every year. Thankfully he likes to run his tractor and brush hog so multiple mowings shouldn’t be an issue…

I ask because we have a field that my father let’s go fallow. Been giant ragweed, kocia, and lambsquarter for 20 years. That seed bank is gonna be brutal to tame….


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[Derek Reese 29]

I ask because we have a field that my father let’s go fallow. Been giant ragweed, kocia, and lambsquarter for 20 years. That seed bank is gonna be brutal to tame….


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Yeah that’s why I was asking if the light tilling would help..he has a 6’ tiller but I know that’s a lot of work and even more seed bank releasing..trying to keep it as least invasive and soil disruptive as possible…probably should add some lime too

 

[buckdeer1]

May have to spray with a herbicide that doesn't leave a residual

 

[FarmerDan]

I can't think of any set of actions that will result in your expected outcome. But, Derek, I've been following your food plotting experiences and you have had great success especially in places where I didn't think you would. Converting a fallow pasture into first a decent seed bed and then a 'successful' food plot is a hard situation. Upon reading your initial description/question my first thought was - No way! Then I thought mowing followed by a period of drying and then burning. Crazy yes. I don't do fire out of fear it gets away.

The tiller is on no use, the disk somewhat more helpful. The tiller tines will just bounce across the surface because of what's probably an underground mass of deep long established roots. The disk will likely struggle too. And those roots are likely to make spraying ineffective on the first try. It all sounds like a multi-year conversion. Who knows what the Gods of odds might have for you. So, roll the dice!

 

[356]

Another option that is working for me...
Mow the perimeter low, then use the tiller on the perimeter for a firebreak.
Mow the plot high.
Low intensity Burn...a separate post can walk you through this.
Enjoy the results this deer season
frost seed cover crop of cereal rye
Terminate rye with gly in July
Plant 2024 food plot.

Other than the firebreak, you are not disturbing the soil. The tilled perimeter will will result in a nice natural shielding of early succession plants and weeds.

 

[Angus 1895]

I have had good luck using a mower, disc, glyphosate, fire.

Here are two areas I have converted from weed/unpalatable areas to one is clover, the other brome.

 

[Catscratch]

I think you have a GREAT situation for a new plot. I've done many plots into very thick pasture.
My steps:

Spray (do this before mowing, vertical thatch is easier to work with than horizontal (laying down) thatch).

Wait a couple of rains to let the seed bank pop up new weeds, then spray again.

Right before a rain broadcast your plot seed then mow. Mowing at this point is actually optional, but I've found it more pleasing to see my seed pop up in short thatch than 2 foot tall stuff.

So easy! Many of my best plot come from this situation.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I think you have a GREAT situation for a new plot. I've done many plots into very thick pasture.
My steps:

Spray (do this before mowing, vertical thatch is easier to work with than horizontal (laying down) thatch).

Wait a couple of rains to let the seed bank pop up new weeds, then spray again.

Right before a rain broadcast your plot seed then mow. Mowing at this point is actually optional, but I've found it more pleasing to see my seed pop up in short thatch than 2 foot tall stuff.

So easy! Many of my best plot come from this situation.

Only issue there might be the standing weeds are SO THICK and tall that my sprayer (a little 3’ boom hooked up to a 25 gal sprayer) may not be able to get a good burn down on it.. but I guess the first round of stuff that gets whacked would brown and fall over..what if I did a hybrid of this..spray to get some of the bigger weeds then mow about 2 weeks later to chop up the dead stuff then wait another 2-3 weeks for more weed growth then spray and plant the same day …just kicking ideas around thanks for the help

 

[Derek Reese 29]

Another option that is working for me...
Mow the perimeter low, then use the tiller on the perimeter for a firebreak.
Mow the plot high.
Low intensity Burn...a separate post can walk you through this.
Enjoy the results this deer season
frost seed cover crop of cereal rye
Terminate rye with gly in July
Plant 2024 food plot.

Other than the firebreak, you are not disturbing the soil. The tilled perimeter will will result in a nice natural shielding of early succession plants and weeds.

I would love to do a burn but it has been pretty dry up here and there are standing crops just across the fence row..my father in law probably wouldn’t go for that ..

 

[Catscratch]

Only issue there might be the standing weeds are SO THICK and tall that my sprayer (a little 3’ boom hooked up to a 25 gal sprayer) may not be able to get a good burn down on it.. but I guess the first round of stuff that gets whacked would brown and fall over..what if I did a hybrid of this..spray to get some of the bigger weeds then mow about 2 weeks later to chop up the dead stuff then wait another 2-3 weeks for more weed growth then spray and plant the same day …just kicking ideas around thanks for the help

I've done that (sprayed, mowed, sprayed, planted, mowed). Got better results by not mowing until I put seed down (spray, spray, planted, mow). That's just me though, not saying what I do works everywhere and certainly not every time. Rain is important!

 

[356]

If you've never done a burn, it can be scary, however, using the till method firebreak and low intensity burn, it is really safe.

Your state has a great Prescribed Burn Council. Your state also has a burn training program...maybe you and your FIL could attend. It might be a great practice for improved pastureland as well. Whatever your decide, congratulation on the permission to put in a plot. With appropriate burn downs, you should get a plot that attracts deer and other critters.

 

[Angus 1895]

This is what it was before I started

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I closed on my land in mid august of '21 without much time for plotting and just had an ATV sprayer and Cultipacker to get started. I just sprayed the weeds, broadcasted seed, and cultipacked (I believe all the same day?) and had enough good stuff grow that the deer used it a bunch but it was ugly! I bet results will vary widely based on how thick of a grass sod you have built up. You can find pictures of before/after in this thread https://habitat-talk.com/threads/newby-central-mn-hayfield-to-food-plots.13533/

 

[Derek Reese 29]

So what do you all think of this kind of schedule for this plot attempt: spray gly at 4 oz/gal this weekend..then mow in about 2 weeks (maybe 3rd week of July) then plant/spray again if I think it’s warranted either the 1st/2nd weekend in August..think that would be enough time for weed growth?