Feeling defeated

Those weeds are telling you stories about your soil structure and fertility. With some investigation and study you can fix some of the problem and adapt where you cannot. You can do all the mowing and chemical herbicide applications you want, but, as you've discovered, there's always some other weed well positioned to thrive in the current soil conditions. Change the condition!

Read this over and over. Give it time to sink-in. Then, think about how what's written here applies to you.
https://ocj.com/2021/09/reading-weeds-to-improve-soil-health/
Well said. I was out spreading calcitic pell lime and gypsum a week and a half ago trying to get a handle on sedge grass and horsetail. I came up with a backup plan if I can't slow down that sedge. I'm going to drop a potato patch and 16" of straw on top of it next spring. It'd be the first time I got potatoes from a weed mitigation strategy.

I've got a smaller test going in one of my plots now, and the deer have left the potato plants alone. My ten tomato plants I started from seed? Yeah, not a good idea to plant them fifteen feet away from the hottest patch of clover in the plot. A spike buck gobbbled up all of them in probably 60 seconds.
 
... I was out spreading calcitic pell lime and gypsum a week and a half ago trying to get a handle on sedge grass and horsetail. I came up with a backup plan if I can't slow down that sedge. I'm going to drop a potato patch and 16" of straw on top of it next spring. It'd be the first time I got potatoes from a weed mitigation strategy.
Sedge and horsetail. Calacitic lime and gypsum. Potatoes? There's a deeper story for you to tell about why those things. What do you know about your soil(s) that leads you to this remedy? Please? I think it would be an interesting read if you would be so kind!
 
Sedge and horsetail. Calacitic lime and gypsum. Potatoes? There's a deeper story for you to tell about why those things. What do you know about your soil(s) that leads you to this remedy? Please? I think it would be an interesting read if you would be so kind!
I dug a small water hole/pond and needed some place to go with the spoils. I brought up pure clay from six feet down (4 inches of topsoil), smeared it out, and planted clover and rye on top of it. That was in 2019. To this day, winter rye does not take on that soil, and I don't know why. I suspect excessive compaction becase I drove over it a lot with the excavator I was using. I've dug more ponds since then, and figured out how to spread the spoils without driving on them near as much. The one I dug last summer is already throwing off belly button high rye. Exact same process and soil, only applied lime and gypsum. But I drove on it way less, and it was bone dry, so perhaps I kept some air in it for a little while longer.

My theory on the sedge is this. Sedge is typically a wet soil plant, thrives in seasonally standing water. I made the leap to call that a low to no oxygen condition. Compacted clay is also a low to no oxygen condition. So, to combat it, I spread a hefty amount of calcitic lime and gypsum on it. Calcium for the big particles (physics) which give you pore space. Gypsum for extra calcium and for the sulfate to bind to the clay (chemistry) and form epsom salts and start to leach or run some of that magnesium (small particles) away. I don't expect the lime to magically get down through that paste clay. But I do expect worms and roots to start making channels to move it up and down.

Tillage and spraying are off the table. The next best 100% method is smothering. I decided to try ruth stout-ing some potatoes this year. If you don't want to watch the video, it's this simple. Spread your potatoes on the ground, cover them in 12" of straw or hay. Come back in 3-4 months rake away the straw and pick up your potatoes. I used straw and then topped with wood chips to keep the straw from blowing to Illinois. I put them between my spruce trees because I still need to mow out there in case the potatoes go long.

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I did that in my yard plot, and the potatoes all punched through the 12" of straw, and not a single weed, not one. I like potatoes, and the great reset is underway. Why not grow a couple hundred pounds of potatoes on top of my weed patch? When I harvest my potatoes, is about the same time I'm gonna throw and mow the rest of the plot. I can scatter most of the straw onto my plot, hold some back after the potato harvest, spread rye/clover/chicory/alfalfa/flax/collards/fixation/triticale/yellow sweet clover/trefoil, scatter some straw over that for a thatch layer, and walk away.

You think the potatoes hooked into the mychorhizal network in the clover? That pic below is weeks and weeks old. The tater greens are about 16 inches tall now. Still not a weed punching up through it. And with knee high clover and alfalfa pushing in from the side, there are no exposed taters at the edge of the mulch.

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I don't know if it'll work, but I'll put lots of butter on my consolation prize. Skip to the 4:40 mark and watch this dude pick his potatoes with his hands. No digging in soil, no wiping soil clods off your taters. Earth worms ought to go nuts for all that straw I'll be putting out there.

 
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Horsetail is a simple crisis of lack of air and low pH. Calcitic lime fixes both.
 
So far, those taters haven't been bothered by the deer. I figure I can keep moving my potato patch around the various plots and use it to keep after my worst weed or compaction areas. Then I won't suffer the fate of the Irish (potato blight) either.
 
The article is about reducing population.

no where even near what managing a foodplot requires. ( elimination)

thistle is a reportable noxious weed in Idaho. You would be in violation of state law to not actively try to eliminate thistle.

Its just not neighborly or legal.
 
Those weeds are telling you stories about your soil structure and fertility. With some investigation and study you can fix some of the problem and adapt where you cannot. You can do all the mowing and chemical herbicide applications you want, but, as you've discovered, there's always some other weed well positioned to thrive in the current soil conditions. Change the condition!

Read this over and over. Give it time to sink-in. Then, think about how what's written here applies to you.
https://ocj.com/2021/09/reading-weeds-to-improve-soil-health/
Thanks for the link!!
 
SD, that's how I grow my potatoes every year. The plants grow like crazy, they're weedless all year, are easy to pick, and have fantastic yields. There will no doubt be tons of earthworms in there, and the soil under your potatoes will be transformed. I've never grown them over soil as poor as you are, but my worst sandy soils become excellent afterwards.
 
SD, that's how I grow my potatoes every year. The plants grow like crazy, they're weedless all year, are easy to pick, and have fantastic yields. There will no doubt be tons of earthworms in there, and the soil under your potatoes will be transformed. I've never grown them over soil as poor as you are, but my worst sandy soils become excellent afterwards.
I don't see how it wouldn't work. Where I've got that sedge, it's still 80% clover with a little chicory in it. I've already gotten 4" of rain on my heavy dose of lime and gypsum. I think it's gonna work very well.
I've gotten a whole new outlook on potatoes as of late. I like to have them often with stuff, but I'm not a fan of how long it takes to make them. I've started baking the whole bag at once when I get them. I actually did 10 pounds just last night. I throw some in the fridge, and some in the freezer. Then when I get to the cabin, it only takes ten minutes to do something with them, vs an hour, especially if they're on the grill.

I'm in the market right now for a food processor. I wanna try making einkorn-colby cheese-its. But I need a processor to blend the cheese with the flour. I'd also like to be ready to make those taters into various things for the freezer when the harvest comes in.
 
I can't speak to the soil chemistry issues you may have or what is in your native seedbank. However, I would wage a full out war on the nonnative grasses. Such a war can be expensive and will take multiple years. I spray the infected areas with gly as early in the season as I can to avoid damaging forbs. There is usually a couple week window in the spring so you have to be "ready to go" when the weather allows for it. I spray the regrowth with clethodim, when the grass reaches 4 inches in heighth and less than 8 inches heighth. Ideally when temps will be above 50 degrees two days before spraying and two days after (these temps work for gly as well). In the fall, you can spray again once everything but the grasses is dormant.
 

Another good one along the lines of what Dan mentioned..

You’ll get conflicting information on some however.

IMO - I wouldn’t do any logging or any more cutting until your invasives are under control. Introducing sunlight will speed up the process.

Best time to kill CSG is in the fall, when they are weakest.
 
They say winter cuts of one aspen species leads to better regeneration.

Are you tackling too big of an area and getting overwhelmed? Start with a key small area.

I also suspect that spring flooding has brought a whole new crop of reed canary grass seeds. It is better than thistles in my opinion.

I would spray some key areas multiple times, then put down black plastic with willow cuttings stuck through it. Pick native willows and plant in the early spring.

Strips of willows and reed canary make good cover. Better yet if a few spruce can survive with them.

If you get periodic doses of reed canary grass seeds, it is hard to get anything else to dominate the landscape.


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Great points. I'm planning on doing fall treatment of gly in a couple weeks. I'm gonna go smaller than planned and focus on timing and doing it right than doing everything half way
 
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