does a deer know the difference between predators?

[dipper]

humans are one of many predators to the whitetail deer. We all have various predators on our properties; wolves, bear, coyotes, Lynx, have all been documented to kill deer. Sanctuaries and low pressure are all the talk right now, and I firmly believe in smart hunting. I'm amazed at how quickly deer respond to hunting pressure. However, are we being too self centered when we think our presence is superior to ther whitetail predators?
I've been thinking about this since I started hearing about sanctuaries. Bear and coyotes are abundant on my property and a wolf shows up now and than. Coyote control is intense on my main farm, and the population is much lower than my second property.
Coincidentally, a few days ago I had a group of does and a ten point buck bed by me while hunting my second property. At about 10 o clock a pack of yotes were clearly hunting the bedded deer and the woods erupted.
i personally feel a deer is a simple, basically dumb creature. There survival instinct, is basically that. They are really good at smelly us, hearing us stumble around their environment, etc.
Can they really differentiate between us and a coyote walking into their bedroom? Is a "sanctuary" any good when a pack of yotes is walking though everyday?

 

[Native Hunter]

You could probably set up a scientific test with trail cameras and answer that question to a satisfactory degree. Put out permanent feeding stations in front of several camera locations and keep this going for an indefinite period of time - definitely long enough to get deer to coming regularly. Then observe deer reaction to coyotes and other predators that come on the scene - mainly looking at how long it takes deer to come back once the predators leave. Then recreate the same scenarios with humans walking through and creating a disturbance. More than likely you would note differences in young does, old does, young bucks, mature bucks, etc.... Also, since deer are individuals and have personalities to some degree, you might even note differences within the different groups or classifications.

What would be even better is to create something like this at a bedding area rather than feeding area, but that would be harder to set up and control.

I've always felt (just speculation on my part) that deer on my place know the difference between me and other humans. Cattle are also dumb creatures (probably dumber than deer) and there is no doubt that they recognize the difference between the owner who is there all the time and a new person who comes on the scene. Ask any farmer who has years of experience with cattle and he will tell you this is the case. He will likely also have some good stories about when he was sick or out of town at some time and a neighbor or relative had to see to the cattle.

All I know is that when 80% of the people in the neighborhood shoot their 30-30 about 50 times the day before gun season opens that one group (mature bucks) seems to know that a predator is getting ready to enter the woods the next morning.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I like the idea of the idea of a sanctuary/refuge but I look at it from a human disturbance point. There is no way we can control all disturbances to deer, only help limit them. Saw first hand last night how coyotes have a negative impact on deer movement.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

My 2 cents....for millions of years deer have been shaped by the selective pressure of the things that eat them. As a result, they are very good "threat assessment." What is the cost to benefit ratio of fleeing (burning valuable energy) each time a perceived threat is encountered..by sight, smelling, or hearing? We all know deer will head for the hills during shotgun season if they sense you. Yet, we drive by them on our ATV's and tractors and enjoy them looking back at us at we pass. I hang my laundry on the line in the backyard as deer graze in my back field watching me cautiously. I have seen my 2 labs (older and really not very threatening) run at and bark at the neighborhood does, and the does just stand their ground and kind of watch, and then walk off slowly with their fawns. I have seen doe groups and black bears feeding in the same apple grove separated by about 35 yards...aware of each other and cautious, but unalarmed.

I think deer do know the difference between different "threats" and thus behave differently when those threats are encountered. Whether they behave differently if a human walks through a sanctuary vs. a coyote? Not sure about that?

 

[bueller]

I think a deers reaction to predators comes down to "what is normal" in their woods. I have trail cam evidence of deer visiting my water holes and food plots within minutes of a coyote being caught on that same camera. I'm sure the deer smell that coyote. Heck they may have even watched him come and go, much like they do to us back and forth from our treestands. If a deer spooked every time it caught wind of a coyote or a human in my area it would be running all day like a chicken with it's head cut off. Deer are curious and observant animals. How many times have you had a deer ID you in a tree, yet sneak around an hour later to take another look at you? If I had no coyotes around I'd imagine the deer would be a bit more concerned if they smelled one in "their" woods. I'm not suggesting that coyotes don't have an effect on the deer. They sure as heck do when they are chasing the deer around or crashing through their bedding areas. But the mere sight and smell of predators be it coyotes, humans, etc... is over exaggerated im my opinion. It's the action of the predator the creates the "disturbance". If the deer perceives the predator as an emminent threat to them, that is bad. If the deer watches as the predator pass while they (the deer) remain undetected or feel unthreatened then it's business as usual. With all that said I think having a sanctuary is a good idea if you know the deer are bedding there. But if and when you plan to hunt that sanctuary you better have a low impact way to get in and out because the deer are not used to seeing or smelling you there.

 

[strawhead]

As in nearly every area circumstances vary. IMHO I think reaction varies from day to day. Following is a series of photos from a small clover micro plot on different nights. It seems right now, at this spot some deer are much more tolerable of a coyotes presence. We have other pics where a couple of deer explode on camera and the next picture is a yote. I am still trying to understand why!

 

[strawhead]

This is the second night. About the same reaction.

 

[Jameson]

...However, are we being too self centered when we think our presence is superior to ther whitetail predators?....

Can they really differentiate between us and a coyote walking into their bedroom? Is a "sanctuary" any good when a pack of yotes is walking though everyday?

I don't think you aren't looking at it quite right. What makes a better sleeping area; The area with coyotes or the area with coyotes and humans? It isn't so much that the deer think our presence is superior, it is that the risks of coyote+human is superior to just coyote. A sanctuary doesn't have to be perfect, just better then someplace else.

 

[dipper]

Good points guy, lots of them
Straw that doe has a look to her like she wants to eat that coyote. In all seriousness, I've had does give me that look in February, and high tail it from me in October.
It's like they know when we want to kill them. This is especially true in the winter. I've had a deer chewing on a tree I was delimbing it. I also have deer just look at me when I'm walking around in winter.
Very interesting points.

 

[dipper]

Anyone ever urban hunt? The deer could care less about u walking by them anytime, but get in a tree and see how stupid they are?

 

[Jameson]

Much of my hunting during the urban hunts I get drawn for is now spent walking the walking trails. The deer just stand there expecting you to walk on by.

 

[rocksnstumps]

But the mere sight and smell of predators be it coyotes, humans, etc... is over exaggerated im my opinion. It's the action of the predator the creates the "disturbance". If the deer perceives the predator as an emminent threat to them, that is bad. If the deer watches as the predator pass while they (the deer) remain undetected or feel unthreatened then it's business as usual. .

I'm with Bueller on this one and will relate what my buddy told me as we went to go drag a dead yote off into a gully.

It's gun season in WI and a doe and a fawn come along a trail on the "military crest" below a hill. 15 mins later comes Mr yote with his nose to the ground. BLAM!, dead yote tips over right next to the trail. 30 mins later three more does (likely more of the local crowd) come trotting along the same trail. They slow up but don't stop and stay on the trail and go one by one past Wily less than a ft off the trail. Obviously fresh blood and still warm (kinda).

So smart/dumb...dunno but they are very perceptive to what is a threat and what is not....

 

[Native Hunter]

My dad was yote hunting last year and saw two hen turkeys come out in the field 380 yards away. After a few minutes he saw some movement near the wood line and raised his scope to see what it was. A yote was stalking the turkeys low to the ground in the knee high grass. He whacked it with the 220 Swift.

What happened next surprised him. When the yote flopped the turkeys jumped and ran away about 15 feet but then stopped. Both of the hens then proceeded to walk down to the yote within a foot of it, checked it out and then proceeded on their way.

 

[dipper]

What amazes me more is the shot. How old is he?

 

[Native Hunter]

What amazes me more is the shot. How old is he?

He turned 80 last February. His hobby is accurate rifles, and coyotes is about all he hunts anymore. Says he wants to save the deer for "the boys." That would be me and my son...LOL.

 

[dipper]

Deer must be too big of targets. Cool

 

[phil@thesidehill]

As far deer human interaction goes...the deer have a very keen ability to differentiate between predatory behavior and non predatory behavior. Its not so much about how they react to a given species, as it is about predatory behavior from that encounter with that other species. This is why you may walk the trails on your property out of hunting season, and not in a slow, sneaky, predatory fashion like you probably do during hunting season, and the deer you see may just watch you go by and then continue doing what they are doing. On the contrary in hunting season you are probably sneaking around slowly, maybe eve crouched down....all visual queues of predatory behavior....and all of a sudden deer take off running, blowing, stomping, snorting, etc.