Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I thought you were doing successional plantings of spruce seedlings to keep younger ones coming?? Too long in the tooth ......... you're NOT kidding any of us, Bur!!!
Planting trees does not improve deer hunting
- Thread starter g squared 23
- Start date
Sorry this is long.
I think it has helped considerably on our farms. Two of the farms are in heavy ag and they are at the reasons that the deer numbers have improved, exponentially on one of them as it was rare to see a deer there 30 years ago and now it is the place to be if you're a deer. The longer your trees have been established I believe the more one will see positive effects.
On one of the above I planted 3 acres in a block a couple years ago that connects two other smaller chunks of timber. Around this chunk is 2 small pollinator crp mixes and taller warm season grasses(totalling9 acres) I did this in part to offset the neighbor dozing in 9 acres of timber that greatly impacted deer numbers and movement.(a great illustration in itself of how trees or lack of can impact deer numbers) and to utilize the crp program to help me with habitat improvement. The neighbors destruction of habitat was studied for 5 years on its impact and when my current 6 acres chuck came out of crp I decided to also take the other 6 acres of the field out of ag production and reenroll into some different crp programs that established trees, shrubs, and pollinator. This farm is a total of 54 acres.
The hunting on this farm has greatly improved as well as the deer numbers. Instead of seeing maybe 5 or 6 deer in a sit since the ripping out of neighbor's timber it has turned in to being able to count that many deer in a group and seeing at least 2 groups like that. I also had 10 different bucks on cam prior to November. How I connected the trees to the blocks of timber allowed me to greatly influence movement (it actually worked out how I thought it would). The trees and shrubs have been in the ground for 2 summers now. Of the 650 that are tubed, the vast majority will have the tubes removed this coming spring as they are out of the 5' tubes. I had to use tubes by the rules of the crp contract.
The other heavy ag farm was a project started in the 80's by my dad. My parents owned 160 acres and dad enrolled as much of it as he could into crp and planted 5, 2 row cedar lines. There was a shelterbelt already established from the Roosevelt days with pines, cedars, and cottonwoods. We would maybe see deer on the property once or twice a year in the 80's, In the early 90's it was common to see at least one deer or two near the shelterbelt during the week. Late 90's into 2000's there was a half dozen or so that called the farm home. From 2010 on it has been a constant deer hangout. As fall goes into winter deer migrate to this farm. It usually has around 10 or so different bucks throughout the Oct/Nov time frame with December thru March being where the deer herd up. Anywhere from 30 to 50 deer have been counted at one time in that time frame.
My dad, who turned 79 this Oct has taken a buck or two from this farm each year for the past 15 years and we have at two disabled vets hunting each year as well. There aren't monster bucks but there are good bucks and all who hunt this farm see lots of deer and have good opportunities.
The third farm is in prime deer habitat and is 80 acres. My wife and I bought it in 2007. It is located on the backside of the Missouri River bluffs and has a relatively high deer density. The ehd hit in 2012 hammered this area and the numbers have never been the same. I always like to see more deer but we were above a healthy number and they were hell on browse and regeneration. They really gave me a crash course in tree care. If I didn't cage or tube they were goners. To give an idea on deer numbers now, one can expect to see 30 to 40 deer in a sit during rifle season, not all different deer but they keep moving through.
I have planted thousands of cuttings and trees on this farm and have made habitat where it used to be just brome pasture. I have planted over a 100 total fruit trees in 6 different spots( One of which is the house orchard but critters use it as there own as well. There was a total of 30 arable acres, basically half pasture, half corn/bean rotation. I put 11 acres into crp 14 years ago, 4 of it into food plots and orchard. The pasture is now trees and warm season grass and weeds mix. As the trees I've planted have matured the deer use has noticeably gone up. Where there was nothing but brome and occasional deer passing through, there is now deer at anytime and can be counted on being seen from a stand. When the 11 acres comes out of crp this next fall I will be reenrolling it into a timber/pollinator planting like I did at the 54 acre farm, using the same principles connectiing two different portion of timber and improving the deer flow influence.
In most cases, patience is the key to seeing positive results but in the case of the 54 arce farm, it was noticeable in the first year, just by deer numbers alone.
The crp that I plant into timber will be in a 15 year contract and if it stays as it is now, I will be able to reenroll for another 15 years and then it will be without income. I figure if I am blessed to be the care taker for 30 more years I won't care about the loss of the income. It will be someone else's opportunity/blesssing.
I think it has helped considerably on our farms. Two of the farms are in heavy ag and they are at the reasons that the deer numbers have improved, exponentially on one of them as it was rare to see a deer there 30 years ago and now it is the place to be if you're a deer. The longer your trees have been established I believe the more one will see positive effects.
On one of the above I planted 3 acres in a block a couple years ago that connects two other smaller chunks of timber. Around this chunk is 2 small pollinator crp mixes and taller warm season grasses(totalling9 acres) I did this in part to offset the neighbor dozing in 9 acres of timber that greatly impacted deer numbers and movement.(a great illustration in itself of how trees or lack of can impact deer numbers) and to utilize the crp program to help me with habitat improvement. The neighbors destruction of habitat was studied for 5 years on its impact and when my current 6 acres chuck came out of crp I decided to also take the other 6 acres of the field out of ag production and reenroll into some different crp programs that established trees, shrubs, and pollinator. This farm is a total of 54 acres.
The hunting on this farm has greatly improved as well as the deer numbers. Instead of seeing maybe 5 or 6 deer in a sit since the ripping out of neighbor's timber it has turned in to being able to count that many deer in a group and seeing at least 2 groups like that. I also had 10 different bucks on cam prior to November. How I connected the trees to the blocks of timber allowed me to greatly influence movement (it actually worked out how I thought it would). The trees and shrubs have been in the ground for 2 summers now. Of the 650 that are tubed, the vast majority will have the tubes removed this coming spring as they are out of the 5' tubes. I had to use tubes by the rules of the crp contract.
The other heavy ag farm was a project started in the 80's by my dad. My parents owned 160 acres and dad enrolled as much of it as he could into crp and planted 5, 2 row cedar lines. There was a shelterbelt already established from the Roosevelt days with pines, cedars, and cottonwoods. We would maybe see deer on the property once or twice a year in the 80's, In the early 90's it was common to see at least one deer or two near the shelterbelt during the week. Late 90's into 2000's there was a half dozen or so that called the farm home. From 2010 on it has been a constant deer hangout. As fall goes into winter deer migrate to this farm. It usually has around 10 or so different bucks throughout the Oct/Nov time frame with December thru March being where the deer herd up. Anywhere from 30 to 50 deer have been counted at one time in that time frame.
My dad, who turned 79 this Oct has taken a buck or two from this farm each year for the past 15 years and we have at two disabled vets hunting each year as well. There aren't monster bucks but there are good bucks and all who hunt this farm see lots of deer and have good opportunities.
The third farm is in prime deer habitat and is 80 acres. My wife and I bought it in 2007. It is located on the backside of the Missouri River bluffs and has a relatively high deer density. The ehd hit in 2012 hammered this area and the numbers have never been the same. I always like to see more deer but we were above a healthy number and they were hell on browse and regeneration. They really gave me a crash course in tree care. If I didn't cage or tube they were goners. To give an idea on deer numbers now, one can expect to see 30 to 40 deer in a sit during rifle season, not all different deer but they keep moving through.
I have planted thousands of cuttings and trees on this farm and have made habitat where it used to be just brome pasture. I have planted over a 100 total fruit trees in 6 different spots( One of which is the house orchard but critters use it as there own as well. There was a total of 30 arable acres, basically half pasture, half corn/bean rotation. I put 11 acres into crp 14 years ago, 4 of it into food plots and orchard. The pasture is now trees and warm season grass and weeds mix. As the trees I've planted have matured the deer use has noticeably gone up. Where there was nothing but brome and occasional deer passing through, there is now deer at anytime and can be counted on being seen from a stand. When the 11 acres comes out of crp this next fall I will be reenrolling it into a timber/pollinator planting like I did at the 54 acre farm, using the same principles connectiing two different portion of timber and improving the deer flow influence.
In most cases, patience is the key to seeing positive results but in the case of the 54 arce farm, it was noticeable in the first year, just by deer numbers alone.
The crp that I plant into timber will be in a 15 year contract and if it stays as it is now, I will be able to reenroll for another 15 years and then it will be without income. I figure if I am blessed to be the care taker for 30 more years I won't care about the loss of the income. It will be someone else's opportunity/blesssing.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I thought you were doing successional plantings of spruce seedlings to keep younger ones coming?? Too long in the tooth ......... you're NOT kidding any of us, Bur!!!
I have done successional plantings, but am running out of room. Out of room for spruce trees and for apple trees as I don’t want to take land out of rental income.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I have irrigated fields on three sides of me. Soybeans, field corn, edible beans, alfalfa, potatoes, and commercial sweet corn are / or have been grown within 1/4 mile.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
wind gypsy,
Turkey Creek has numerous trees on M-111. Ordered 2 big dogs crabapples on M111.
Turkey Creek has numerous trees on M-111. Ordered 2 big dogs crabapples on M111.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I knew YOU were in ag country - where does the "big woods", wilderness part of Minn. begin?? What's the avg. acreage of the woods patches near you there in ag country?
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Same at camp - except for the "rental income land" part. Most of our logged areas have been re-planted with a variety of spruce, hardwoods, and soft mast trees.
bigbendmarine
5 year old buck +
As many have already expressed, think there are a ton of variables that go into the equation of how much trees are needed / will help. And as with so many habitat tools, what the area surrounding you already has in excess versus lacks can go a long way in determining potential value.
That said, in my area to the deep south many of my surrounding tracts have large pine stands managed with a priority for timber value versus wildlife value. Surrounded by a sea of pines, I've got a few pockets of mature swamp chestnut white oaks (Quercus muchauxii) that drop heavily every few years, and when they do they draw TONS of wildlife and do so for months. Last year was a heavy drop year and I had heavy traffic into late February still working to clean up acorns. Even with the mast aside, I'm seeing the lower branches of sawtooth oaks I planted six years ago regularly being used by deer for licking branches and scrapes within firing distance of my stands. The handfuls of chestnuts, sawtooth acorns, and pears falling from trees I planted six years ago don't usually last a day before being consumed.
Above shared, I only see trees as a single tool in a habitat toolbox that should be filled with many additional tools such as prescribed burning, creating bedding habitat, manipulating habitat for trail use, etc, etc, etc
And a closing thought on food in general (mast, plots, etc), living in a southern state (Florida) not known for having mega-rich soils (nor naturally giant racks) I see anything that is providing nutrition/health as a benefit to the local high-density herd, helping bucks regain weight as the rut comes to a conclusion and helping does gain weight as they begin eating for two (or three). That's a deeper goal than helping immediate "deer hunting" but my hope is that over a few generations providing maximum nutrition will pay off in long-term results (though I wish I had much more acreage to really be able to make more of an impact).
That said, in my area to the deep south many of my surrounding tracts have large pine stands managed with a priority for timber value versus wildlife value. Surrounded by a sea of pines, I've got a few pockets of mature swamp chestnut white oaks (Quercus muchauxii) that drop heavily every few years, and when they do they draw TONS of wildlife and do so for months. Last year was a heavy drop year and I had heavy traffic into late February still working to clean up acorns. Even with the mast aside, I'm seeing the lower branches of sawtooth oaks I planted six years ago regularly being used by deer for licking branches and scrapes within firing distance of my stands. The handfuls of chestnuts, sawtooth acorns, and pears falling from trees I planted six years ago don't usually last a day before being consumed.
Above shared, I only see trees as a single tool in a habitat toolbox that should be filled with many additional tools such as prescribed burning, creating bedding habitat, manipulating habitat for trail use, etc, etc, etc
And a closing thought on food in general (mast, plots, etc), living in a southern state (Florida) not known for having mega-rich soils (nor naturally giant racks) I see anything that is providing nutrition/health as a benefit to the local high-density herd, helping bucks regain weight as the rut comes to a conclusion and helping does gain weight as they begin eating for two (or three). That's a deeper goal than helping immediate "deer hunting" but my hope is that over a few generations providing maximum nutrition will pay off in long-term results (though I wish I had much more acreage to really be able to make more of an impact).
GoldenTriangleIL
5 year old buck +
I recently came to the same conclusion myself, especially after seeing how many volunteer species I was planting came in naturally. Tree and shrub planting, unless completing a reforestation project or CRP mandate, is not an efficient way to improve deer habitat. Some of the species I have planted because I wanted to reintroduce that native, not necessarily benefit the deer. I liken tree planting to the sprinkles on the habitat cake. On my farm the biggest habitat gains have been from spraying cool season and invasive grass, planting food plots, and FSI. I really don't understand the fascination with chestnuts though, I realize that many of the food plot/fruit tree species are not native plants, but I am not planting anything with "chinese" in the name.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
I can respect that :)
BUT, Chestnuts were a very important food source for not only humans but many critters and since the American Chestnut went by the way of blight and this is the replacement, would you honestly feel better if you planted Dunstans? I could be wrong but Chinese Chestnuts are grown and sold here in the US which is a bit different than buying a car part with a made in China sticker on it.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
The average size of the woods patches is so variable it is hard to answer. There is a stand of 300-400 acres of pine plantation that is 1.5 miles west of me and that also has lots of connecting wetlands and willows.
Minnesota’s big woods are North East and north. South , southwest, and west are ag.
Then there is a wide belt of the mixture between.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Some basic illustrations on mn landscape:
In general, the “eastern broadleaf” labeled transition between forest and prairie (AG) is the whitetail goodness. SW is light on cover in many areas and NE has the mix of brutal winters, mediocre food, and lots of wolves/bears.
The grey 100 area is what people are referring to as zone 1 where hunting has been pretty bleak in most areas.
If that transition area is the good stuff in MN, look at WI comparatively. Most of the state has that ideal mix of cover and food.
In general, the “eastern broadleaf” labeled transition between forest and prairie (AG) is the whitetail goodness. SW is light on cover in many areas and NE has the mix of brutal winters, mediocre food, and lots of wolves/bears.
The grey 100 area is what people are referring to as zone 1 where hunting has been pretty bleak in most areas.
If that transition area is the good stuff in MN, look at WI comparatively. Most of the state has that ideal mix of cover and food.
Last edited:
bigbendmarine
5 year old buck +
This reply might be better shared in the "You might be a habitat guy" thread but... for whatever it's worth will say this for Chinese chestnuts, they taste good (at least to this human) straight out of the shell! If pushed to describe the flavor I'd say the taste is like a marriage between a pecan and a sweet potato, with a hint of sweetness and no appreciable bitterness.
So here's the "you might be a habitat guy" part... I also have tried bits of all the acorns in my area. White oaks are decent, and sawtooths can be as well, but reds are really bitter right off the tree... enough to turn your mouth inside out and turn it numb for a few minutes. Live oaks are especially interesting to me as they're much like the flavor of whites but with a floral note. Feel like a wine guy trying to desribe wines, lol!
Share the above to say that I sure wouldn't avoid planting Chinese chestnuts just because of the oriental parentage (and much agree with Trouble Trees on the blight replacement note).
Which adds another admittedly tangent justification for planting trees... SHTF, the fruit trees and Chestnuts can help us humans weather storms, and even acorns with a bit of work processing them for flour.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I love the taste of chestnuts and Allegheny Chinquapins, but the high carb content doesn't work with my diet. If you want to turn your mouth inside out, try a no-so-ripe American persimmon! I have to admit, I've tasted a number of different acorns.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Thanks, Wind Gypsy, for those maps and info. Maps are easier to read - for me anyway. I'm a long-time user of topo maps, and can appreciate what info THEY provide as well. Visual cues are always a big help.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Thanks, Bur, for that info. I was never sure of where the "big woods" were in Minn. I suspected the ag areas were in the southern part, but somehow I assumed Minn. had much more big woods area than it appears now from your description and Wind Gypsy's maps he posted. In pictures of Minn. ag lands, I always thought BIG sections of woods were just out of the picture!! I guess I had Minn. pictured as lots of wilderness acreage.
I'm learnin'.
GoldenTriangleIL
5 year old buck +
As to the chestnut, I think there has been a lot of marketing of this tree from the "trees as a foodplot" crowd. If you look at its native range https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_chestnut you can see that it is much more limited than some would lead you to believe. However, if my property was in its native range, I would definitely begin re-establishing these once the blight resistant American version is fully developed and approved for release.
Teeder
5 year old buck +
That's my plan. Hope I'm still alive!
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I am off on a tangent, but I have been reading some articles in D and DH from a retired Wisconsin deer biologist. He discusses how carrying capacity decreases as you go north in Wisconsin.
Much of Minnesota’s big woods is north of northern Wisconsin and I suspect carrying capacity would decrease much more. He does say that somewhere north of Lake Nipigon in Canada, it goes to zero.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Similar threads
- Poll
