Planting trees does not improve deer hunting

[bigboreblr]

MY horn theory....... Deer need to recover after winter in most areas. The better a winter you can provide for your deer, the better they will be in the spring to produce early horn growth.

Deer rack wise in my AG area, I see better horns after a year of soybeans vs corn. There is more waste in a soybean field for deer to eat than corn. This isn't a push to plant soybeans. But providing good winter health is very important. A coworker of mine has slowly wandered from plant acres upon acres of turnips soybean and corn just for deer, to planting rye mixtures. Not only it saves money, but he sees more late season deer in the area. For him, the added benefit of selling hay has been a plus too.

I wonder what the benefit of very late dropping fruit does for out deer health in the winter. Vitamin C, folic acid, and antioxidants. The past 15-20 years, deer have been dealing with more ticks over the winter. I know Canada and northeast have real issues with moose dying from tick born diseases over the winter.

Definitely another tihng I have seen is results from timber management. A few years are the loggers chop the heck out of my lease, the deer herd goes up, or rather comes over. Our BAC enhanced weekend warrior camp buddies may noit see a buck imporvement, but they definitely see more does.

My 3rd year at my old house, there was a poor mast crop. Any AG around me is typical stressed pastures. 3x mowings a year, no maintenance, just choppin'. The year before I clearanced the hickory and oak trees. Limed them and lightly fertilized them. During 2 bad dry spells I even watered the 3 or 4 of them. Stuff came out of the woodwork that year. That was year 2 of my clover plot in the area, year 1 was better food due to peas and wheat being in the mix. But those deer came to the acorns. Really pissed one hunt, A monster black squirrel came to the hickory tree I have never seen before. That's my big hunting trophy, to find a big black squirrel to fit the fox squirrel molds.

 

[bigboreblr]

G squared 23,

Have you made a good post in the land tours?

Also, anything I have ever known about where a very big buck has had for a core area had 1 of 2 things. A mountain peak, or a water crossing to feel comfortable his scent cant be tracked. Even the mouintain peak has a scent trick, they speel on the downwind side a touch, the top of the mountain cuts the wind and sucks air up the hill, so basically a deer can smell from both sides of the hill in the right spot. Usually, 20-50ft downhill from the top.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I voted >50 but with a caveat. I have planted hundreds of apples and shrubs but the greatest benefit has been releasing 40+ mature apple trees that were producing next to nothing. I didn‘t plant them, but I saved them and they are now a huge draw for the deer. I have shot a mature buck the last 5 years and probably had only seen 2 the 15 years before.

Nice. Releasing old apple trees that are already rooted and established is smart. Sunlight and less nutrient competition is like giving them a shot of vitamins. We learned it here at our place. Where you're located, those apple trees are probably a deer magnet. Great work, Chummer.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I think I know the answer and just can not understand some of this management of government lands in northern areas that tend to get heavy snow cover. Some trees and shrubs make a tremendous difference.

Bur -

What are they doing on those northern gov. lands?? What are those areas like - open or wooded? What do you think they ought to be doing instead? Just curious for learning purposes.

 

[bwoods11]

On your farm, would just planting native grasses have done the same?

I think I know the answer and just can not understand some of this management of government lands in northern areas that tend to get heavy snow cover. Some trees and shrubs make a tremendous difference.


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No the neighbors have native grasses and there’s not much there now. A few pheasants until the snow flies . Then they move to the cattails and shelterbelts.

Deer will cross the CRP , occasionally bed in there . I know there are pheasants that nest in there .

That past few Minnesota winters have had quite a bit of snow and there’s literally nothing in the grasses when we get a foot of snow or more. They need a place to survive the winter.

I wish every parcel of public land would have a 5-12 row (L) shaped shelterbelt for that reason. Plus it gives the hunters a place to hunt. (This is in farm country)

Some of these parcels were bought with duck stamp money , and trees are a big no-no In Minnesota to those guys!

 

[bwoods11]

Bur -

What are they doing on those northern gov. lands?? What are those areas like - open or wooded? What do you think they ought to be doing instead? Just curious for learning purposes.

They are doing next to nothing. Frustrating.
Spending big money Cutting trees down !

 

[Mortenson]

I'm with the others in saying I'm playing the long game, mostly with fruit trees. I can see a few good late season hunts in the orchards in 10+ years down the road. Also expecting to scoop up some good sheds in the vicinity. Although I haven't killed a deer as a result of those orchards yet, I still consider them to be one of my biggest habitat successes, along with strategically placed switch grass and food plots. We get all the cover we need from 30+ years of bush honeysuckle growth. It's nasty and I hate it, but I have no desire at this point in my life to tackle it. I think it keeps some bucks alive. Without it I think they'd all get shot. Time is best spent clearing out little areas for travel and visibility. When my fruit tree phase comes to an end, I can picture myself picking up another bad habit, probably chestnuts.

 

[Bill]

someday, someone will enjoy the fruit trees I've planted. I hope they give a thumbs up to who ever planted them.

 

[yoderjac]

someday, someone will enjoy the fruit trees I've planted. I hope they give a thumbs up to who ever planted them.

Except for grafting over native persimmons, the same is true for me with fruit trees.

 

[bwoods11]

I know a guy that bow hunts in South Dakota. Someone out there planted 10-12 acres of Cedar, Spruce, some plum, maybe Ash , etc…many years ago.

A block planting . He said it’s not uncommon to see 20 deer come out of that block planting.

Tree planting is very site specific and can be a huge benefit !

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Seems to be very property specific. Makes a lot of sense on ag heavy or properties with a lack of cover. Less so when there is already abundant woody vegetation.

I'm planting trees primarily as road screens and cover where I have openings (food plots) exposed to the road and neighbors. There are no conifers on my land so I'm also doing some where existing timber is thinned and hopeful that some spruce will be an appreciated additional cover but probably not for a decade+.

Planted apple trees because I thought it would be cool but I half expect them to fail due to my poorly drained soils. Pumping the brakes until I see more and frankly it wouldn't bother me to have one less thing to maintain.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I am surrounded by ag (corn/beans/alfalfa/hay). I planted a 40 tree screen of conifers/shrubs this spring for cover and to block my neighbors view into my plot and have planted 2 dozen apples/crabs in my food/fruit plot (and at least a dozen and a half others in my front field) because as far as I know I have the only fruit around. Those 40 deer I see in the beans in late August need something to eat once that bean field is bare and the deer that were using the corn as cover will need somewhere else to bed. Last winter my brassicas had 10-15 deer a night in a half acre field every night for about a month in January/February and bucks cruised it nightly during the rut. In a few years I am hoping the late-dropping fruit will have a similar effect.

 

[yoderjac]

Seems to be very property specific. Makes a lot of sense on ag heavy or properties with a lack of cover. Less so when there is already abundant woody vegetation.

I'm planting trees primarily as road screens and cover where I have openings (food plots) exposed to the road and neighbors. There are no conifers on my land so I'm also doing some where existing timber is thinned and hopeful that some spruce will be an appreciated additional cover but probably not for a decade+.

Planted apple trees because I thought it would be cool but I half expect them to fail due to my poorly drained soils. Pumping the brakes until I see more and frankly it wouldn't bother me to have one less thing to maintain.

Exactly, very property specific. Planting trees and shrubs, is just one method of habitat manipulation. The key to both QDM on a larger scale, or improving a smaller property for hunting is to analyze what you have to start with and how deer relate to the existing land. Then developing realistic objectives and selecting the right methods and techniques to apply to achieve those objectives. Folks who do this, and planting trees are the appropriate method, will generally see the benefits in the long run. Whether those benefits will improve hunting depends whether improving hunting was one of the objectives. In general, trees are a technique for the longer term. How long will will take to see benefits will depend on the specifics of the trees and reasons for planting them.

One thing to keep in mind, especially for smaller parcels, is that while you are manipulating habitat, so our others and nature is always in flux. Any method we apply can be completely defeated or enhanced by things that are changing in the area. Here is a good example. I bought a tiny property (16 acres) for retirement and built a barn. There is a 50 acre adjoining parcel that was owned by absentee owners. about 40 acres was a thick clear-cut that was of young pines, cedars, and other growth with thick blackberries and such. Deer came out and fed in my clover near the barn most every day and night for the last few years. It recently sold. The guy cleared about 5 acres or so of the clear-cut. He then went in and put a 100 yard private shooting range in the middle of the clear-cut. We also had a bumper mast crop this year. Between that and my new neighbors activity and hunting, it is rare for deer to come out and feed on my clover except after dark. I'm guessing they have changed their bedding as a result and are bedding further away and moving through the clear-cut after dark.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[bwoods11]

Jack …what is QDM? That’s not affiliated with QDMA ? If so.. no thanks !!

 

[yoderjac]

Jack …what is QDM? That’s not affiliated with QDMA ? If so.. no thanks !!

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is an approach to deer management that focus an improving the health of the herd. Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) is a non-profit organization that advocates for, organizes, and educates folks regarding QDM. In my personal opinion, QDMA was a great organization for many years that largely lived up to its mission. However, there came a point where mounting pressure from corporate contributors and advertisers in their magazine (Quality Whitetails) and website, caused them to try to "control the message". To that end, they terminated their public forum where products marketed by their advertisers were critiqued. Experienced folks on the QDMA forum were teaching those new to QDM that their were much less expensive ways to achieve their goals rather than buying the high priced products. To my way of thinking, money became more important to the organization than the mission. That is when I pulled my membership and came to this forum. QDMA still does some good work. I am just personally unwilling to support the organization. Others may disagree.

So, I use QDM to refer to the management approach in contrast to other management approaches like Trophy Deer Management (TDM). I use QDMA when I'm referring to the specific organization.

THanks,

Jack

 

[Troubles Trees]

I voted 0-10% because I have only owned the land for 7-8 years and much of what I planted hasn't began to drop fruit or nuts. A lot of the browse I planted is getting used but the food plot I put in has proven to be a bigger draw than expected despite being surrounded by AG for miles. I planted quite a few things like Persimmon, Pears, Chestnut and Oaks that I have faith will draw deer to my land 20 years from now when it is actually a food source. We do have Oaks here in NY but very few of them are spared by the chainsaw for monetary reasons in my county.

Like everything else, each area is different and what draws deer to a property largely depends on what the neighborhood holds and what the deer prefer.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

They are doing next to nothing. Frustrating.
Spending big money Cutting trees down !

I didn't know what Bur meant. Are those lands just unbroken woods - or wide open, windswept land?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I've had great hunting near apple trees on farms I have permission to hunt. These are old trees that someone likely planted 75+ years ago and haven't been pruned or fertilized in decades, but they still draw in deer. I really like the idea of putting in some work today planting trees that can offer good hunting for decades with little to no work if I decided to give up on other food plots.

I've tried to copy that apple tree success on my land by planting 100+ apple trees in locations that offer good hunting. The trees are just starting to produce, and deer use is increasing. Right now, the clover I planted around the fruit trees is probably the biggest draw, but over time when the trees produce massive amounts of fruit, I think the apples will be the main course.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Planted apple trees because I thought it would be cool but I half expect them to fail due to my poorly drained soils.

Heavy clay?? If so, MM-111 is the recommended rootstock for clay / clay-ish heavier soils. ( Info is from the head of Penn State's fruit tree dept. ) FWIW.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We do have Oaks here in NY but very few of them are spared by the chainsaw for monetary reasons in my county.

Same here in Pa. We have gobs of them, but more and more oaks are cut before they reach a good, mature size for lumber ......... for quick money. I think we'll get to point where we'll HAVE to plant more oak seedlings because of harvesting too soon. GOD help us if gypsy moths or oak leaf rollers hammer the woods.

An easy tip for oak regeneration - when any oak is cut down - CAGE THOSE STUMPS!!! If you keep deer off the stumps, you'll get free stump sprouts and FREE future trees with well-established root systems that will make the re-growth happen MUCH FASTER. Cage wire is quicker than starting from acorns or small seedlings if you want faster oak tree production. We did it at camp, and the resulting oak sprouts will self-thin as the strongest ones will overtake the weaker ones. 4 years after logging, and caging stumps, we had new oak trees over 12 feet tall with trunks about 2 to 2 1/2" dia. You won't get that kind of rapid growth from planting seedlings. Just a FYI for any guys that have oaks to harvest. We used 5 ft. tall concrete mesh for cage material.