Planting trees does not improve deer hunting

[bwoods11]

I was just being sarcastic Jack. Not a fan of QDMA.

 

[yoderjac]

Heavy clay?? If so, MM-111 is the recommended rootstock for clay / clay-ish heavier soils. ( Info is from the head of Penn State's fruit tree dept. ) FWIW.

We have heavy clay here and M111 is what our local orchards use so I did the same.

 

[yoderjac]

I was just being sarcastic Jack. Not a fan of QDMA.

I know that, but there are lots of readers that may not be aware of the history. It is a good question to ask and answer every so often.

 

[PatinPA]

The only money and time I've wasted were on my earlier plantings that just got planted with no care what so ever. I planted 25 sawtooth oaks the first year in random openings. I have since found one that is still alive. I did the same with some conifers. I'm only in year 2 or 3 with most of my fruit trees so I can't really say anything about them. I do have some big box store plums that are in year 4 I believe. They were looking really good until they got black knot really bad and I had to cut them way back. I've debated on whether the kill plots I've put in have been worth it. The deer do occasionally use them but It's definitely not been the game changer I thought they'd be.

 

[Telemark]

Seems to be very property specific. Makes a lot of sense on ag heavy or properties with a lack of cover. Less so when there is already abundant woody vegetation.

I'm planting trees primarily as road screens and cover where I have openings (food plots) exposed to the road and neighbors. There are no conifers on my land so I'm also doing some where existing timber is thinned and hopeful that some spruce will be an appreciated additional cover but probably not for a decade+.

Planted apple trees because I thought it would be cool but I half expect them to fail due to my poorly drained soils. Pumping the brakes until I see more and frankly it wouldn't bother me to have one less thing to maintain.

Try planting them on mounds. Made a huge difference on my wet ground.

 

[bwoods11]

When planted oaks start dropping acorns, I get a feeling of accomplishment!

 

[sandbur]

I didn't know what Bur meant. Are those lands just unbroken woods - or wide open, windswept land?

I was referring to the western areas of our state where the feds and our state seem to be on a mission to remove every tree and shrub to maintain/ create prairie environs. I agree with Bwoods that rows of evergreens and shrubs are important to get deer and pheasants through the deep snow winters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Try planting them on mounds. Made a huge difference on my wet ground.

I like that idea. Did you just dig elsewhere to get fill for mounds or use imported soil?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Heavy clay?? If so, MM-111 is the recommended rootstock for clay / clay-ish heavier soils. ( Info is from the head of Penn State's fruit tree dept. ) FWIW.

It's not full on clay, pretty silty, but wet. Who sells M-111 wildlife trees? I got trees from wallace that were listed only as "standard" rootstock last year and some from Midwest deer trees that are Dolgo. Have just 4 coming this year from bluehill that are on dolgo as well.

Curious if the M-111 is known to be better than Dolgo for this application? From Blue Hill website "Malus Dolgo also handles excessive moisture very well."

 

[SWIFFY]

Im in the prairie in MN close to where bwoods is. I cant say that any trees ive planted on my own property have improved the hunting YET... but im confident they soon will. Some of the other spots i hunt and shed hunt are big shelterbelts in the ag areas. 2-40 acers of conifers all planting in ag country. They attract every deer for miles in the late season! Put food on the SE sides of them or in them and you will have a deer magnet... but it doesnt happen overnight. Im helping my neighbor right now convert 240 acres from row crop back into 155 acres of Native grasses, 25 acres of tree rows, and the remainder into food plots and remain in row crops. If it doesnt increase the carrying capacity of our section significantly over time, I will be shocked. Im sure year 1 will look a lot different than year 5, or 10 etc etc.

Diverse cover + Diverse Food + SANCTUARY= Deer (and some big ones)! Diversity means many other species will benefit as well.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Im in the prairie in MN close to where bwoods is. I cant say that any trees ive planted on my own property have improved the hunting YET... but im confident they soon will. Some of the other spots i hunt and shed hunt are big shelterbelts in the ag areas. 2-40 acers of conifers all planting in ag country. They attract every deer for miles in the late season! Put food on the SE sides of them or in them and you will have a deer magnet... but it doesnt happen overnight. Im helping my neighbor right now convert 240 acres from row crop back into 155 acres of Native grasses, 25 acres of tree rows, and the remainder into food plots and remain in row crops. If it doesnt increase the carrying capacity of our section significantly over time, I will be shocked. Im sure year 1 will look a lot different than year 5, or 10 etc etc.

Diverse cover + Diverse Food + SANCTUARY= Deer (and some big ones)! Diversity means many other species will benefit as well.

That's exciting stuff SWIFFY!

 

[Brian662]

Im in the prairie in MN close to where bwoods is. I cant say that any trees ive planted on my own property have improved the hunting YET... but im confident they soon will. Some of the other spots i hunt and shed hunt are big shelterbelts in the ag areas. 2-40 acers of conifers all planting in ag country. They attract every deer for miles in the late season! Put food on the SE sides of them or in them and you will have a deer magnet... but it doesnt happen overnight. Im helping my neighbor right now convert 240 acres from row crop back into 155 acres of Native grasses, 25 acres of tree rows, and the remainder into food plots and remain in row crops. If it doesnt increase the carrying capacity of our section significantly over time, I will be shocked. Im sure year 1 will look a lot different than year 5, or 10 etc etc.

Diverse cover + Diverse Food + SANCTUARY= Deer (and some big ones)! Diversity means many other species will benefit as well.

I have about 25 acres either in, or set to become planted in NWSG and judging on what you describe, I'd say I'm south of you a little ways in MN. I don't have great faith that it will be sustainable cover for whitetails in the winter months. I have supplemented with conifer plantings as well, but those grow quite a bit slower than NWSG and the deer density has wreaked havoc on the unprotected.

 

[SWIFFY]

In this area I have never seen any browse pressure on Red Cedar or Black Hills Spruce, there are a few others as well. Yeah its going to take a while compared to your warm season grasses, but man, once those trees grow to where the row is solid with no gaps, LOOK OUT! Major wind screen and thermal cover which will also help protect your NWSG from laying down and drifting in. Were lucky as we already have a bunch of groves and treelines and slough edges established around the 240 acres, this is just adding too whats already very good and winters a lot of deer.

What it holds really just depends on how much you pressure it. I think you may be surprised!

 

[Telemark]

I like that idea. Did you just dig elsewhere to get fill for mounds or use imported soil?

I dig elsewhere and try to blend the soil as I pile it up. But importing soil would work well if you can't find good stuff near you.

 

[sandbur]

In this area I have never seen any browse pressure on Red Cedar or Black Hills Spruce, there are a few others as well. Yeah its going to take a while compared to your warm season grasses, but man, once those trees grow to where the row is solid with no gaps, LOOK OUT! Major wind screen and thermal cover which will also help protect your NWSG from laying down and drifting in. Were lucky as we already have a bunch of groves and treelines and slough edges established around the 240 acres, this is just adding too whats already very good and winters a lot of deer.

What it holds really just depends on how much you pressure it. I think you may be surprised!

I suspect those evergreen windbreaks will help pheasant survival during bad winters, especially if you have a corn plot near by.

Thirty plus years ago, I planted spruce and jack pine for a wind break like you mentioned. I also ran 2-4 rows of spruce along the edges of swamps and wetlands. This works especially well if the swamp edges are all deciduous trees or shrubs like tag alder.

My spruce are maturing and losing lower branches, but I am too long in the tooth to replace them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

I dig elsewhere and try to blend the soil as I pile it up. But importing soil would work well if you can't find good stuff near you.

If you have an old single bottom plow, you can plow a single pass in one direction and then turn around and make a pass in the opposite direction. This creates a slight mound between the passes with a trough on each side for excess water. You want to do it when soil conditions are right. You don't want to do it when the soil is wet. It work in areas that are seasonally wet.

 

[H20fwler]

It's not full on clay, pretty silty, but wet. Who sells M-111 wildlife trees? I got trees from wallace that were listed only as "standard" rootstock last year and some from Midwest deer trees that are Dolgo. Have just 4 coming this year from bluehill that are on dolgo as well.

Curious if the M-111 is known to be better than Dolgo for this application? From Blue Hill website "Malus Dolgo also handles excessive moisture very well."

Vintage Virginia Heirloom Apples uses a lot of M111 rootstocks and they are taking spring orders now.
Their catalog of varieties changes from year to year.

I bought a half dozen varieties from them last spring and they have all done well.

M111 doesn’t sucker like a lot of others types either.

 

[yoderjac]

Vintage Virginia Heirloom Apples uses a lot of M111 rootstocks and they are taking spring orders now.
Their catalog of varieties changes from year to year.

I bought a half dozen varieties from them last spring and they have all done well.

M111 doesn’t sucker like a lot of others types either.

Vintage Virginia Apples is the local orchard I've used. I took a grafting class there. I have not purchased any trees from them but have purchased rootstock and grafted DR varieties from GRIN. I got both black twig and Arkansas Black scions in my grafting class that have done well for me so far.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I was referring to the western areas of our state where the feds and our state seem to be on a mission to remove every tree and shrub to maintain/ create prairie environs. I agree with Bwoods that rows of evergreens and shrubs are important to get deer and pheasants through the deep snow winters.

Thanks Bur. I was wondering because I know you have your finger on the pulse of the land there, and for my own learning, I was curious about what kind of terrain it was that you were talking about. I picture Minn. as big woods, swamps, wilderness kind of territory - at least in some of it. I know it's an ag state too, but when I picture deer in Minn. - I think northern big woods country. Thanks for the info!!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

It's not full on clay, pretty silty, but wet. Who sells M-111 wildlife trees? I got trees from wallace that were listed only as "standard" rootstock last year and some from Midwest deer trees that are Dolgo. Have just 4 coming this year from bluehill that are on dolgo as well.

Curious if the M-111 is known to be better than Dolgo for this application? From Blue Hill website "Malus Dolgo also handles excessive moisture very well."

WG -

I don't know about Dolgo & wet soils. I have no experience with Dolgo in wet conditions. Sandbur might be able to address it better - he has some "wet feet" crabs at his place. Dolgo is a very tough and hardy rootstock though.

As for who sells MM-111 trees, Cummins Nursery in N.Y. and Adams County Nursery (ACN) in Pa. have DR apple trees on MM-111. roots. I've purchased trees from both nurseries and both had great trees. If you want a beefier tree with some limbs - go with ACN. ACN is one of a relative few fruit tree nurseries in the U.S.A. on Penn State's list of recommended nurseries - FWIW. Check both nurseries out online. ACN has an online catalog with lots of good info in it.