Broke a guys heart permission to track denied

[Bill]

If I wouldn’t have gotten to know Bill through this forum, It would sound like a bit of jealousy, righteousness or frustration that someone shot “their” deer to me personally. But that’s not really Bill.

no none of that and not looking for affirmation. (Maybe righteousness) I posted because it’s a topic we all may be faced with one day. I knew opinions would go both ways.

I’m not offended by anyone saying I’m wrong. I get it.

 

[willy]

It’s one the reasons I put stands far enough off the line for the “death run” they make after that your at the neighbors mercy.

I have an 80 bordered on 2 sides by a 375 acre hunting lease. The current group has leased it for ten years. In that time they have asked at least 3 if not 4 times to track onto my property deer that had been shot on theirs. Their stands are 50 to 150 plus yards off the line. Deer, even hit well can go a long ways. This group has a horrible loss ratio. I only let them on mine because someday it will happen to us. They have to ask each time and they cant go in until dark and we're out of there.

I have my property set up so interior is a sanctuary and only hunt outside edges. My stands are 6' to 100 yards from line. We have shot well over 30 deer in past 10 years and none made it to other side.

Closeness of stands to property edge an excuse or guarantee of deer dying on one's property.

The other bordering property is an ag field. I have already talked to landowner about tracking if it ever happens.

I believe it is a hunters responsibility to talk to surrounding landowners/leasees prior to hunting to come to an agreed upon protocol if the above happens or know before shooting anything they won't be allowed to retrieve game that crosses line.

Thanks for sharing the story as it has allowed different perspectives to be seen.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I know my neighbors, have their numbers, and they have mine. They'd call before setting foot on my ground and I'd call before needing to track on theirs. In both instances, permission would be granted. No judgement from me one way or another toward any landowner on here; if a man pays for ground and taxes he can do as he pleases. Whether that's allow or disallow.

 

[Telemark]

No Bill was in his rights to do what he did, I'm not disputing that. I don't think it is right though, the deer shouldn't go to waste for the reason it did. Ethically you should try to recover that animal to not waste the meat and then have the discussion with the guy later on.

While Bill did not say it, there are numerous post about people saying he shouldn't hunt there. That has the same amount of arrogance and ridiculousness because they are well within there rights to do so.

It's also a bummer for the deer. But it wasn't Bill's mistake. It was the hunter's mistake. If no one was hunting Bill's land you might have a case. But Bill is not responsible for other people's mistakes on other people's land, and no one has any right to ruin Bill's use of his own land because of their mistakes.

In my opinion, the guy hunting the five acres should have waited til gun season. But us talking about it amongst ourselves is completely different from us going and telling that hunter how we feel about it.

 

[Tree Spud]

I know it sucks letting someone track in the middle of season but I don't believe it's right to deny it. I don't believe it is the moral thing to do. Just leave an animal to suffer or go to waste so you have a chance at a big buck is kind of ridiculous. Hopefully that guy doesn't decide to be a dick back to you cause he could try to screw up the rest of your season in that area. Or he will just keep hunting, killing more deer and possibly the nice one your son's after.

Competition for big bucks may be why hunting will die someday. It will just become a rich man's game, like in other places of the world. I've been on a the side of the fence with 5 acres. We all need to start somewhere. Someone is not going to go out and buy 200 acres just to get into hunting. You may have made that guy quit hunting. That's just one guy but as things keep getting more competitive, the numbers quitting will increase because of denied access.

20 years ago, you needed to own no land to hunt, landowners readily gave permission. Currently you its very hard to get permission and people feel they have to the right to tell others they can't hunt on their own f'in land because they don't own enough. And even more this guys actually has permission to hunt 40, but its only 5 woods so you have made the executive decision that that 40 is too small to hunt. Pretty soon 40 acres of woods won't be big enough for someone to hunt because technically if you are sitting in the center of a 40 your are only 220 yards from the line and everyone here has tracked a deer further than that in their career.

Guys with a lot of land like to tell the little guys what they can and can't do on theirs. That is so over the top hypocritical because if someone told you what you can or can't do on yours's, you would be outraged. Like others have said, the shoe may be on the other foot someday and I hope they stick it to ya on a nice buck.

Sorry I'm being blunt but my emotions are high. I was in a similar situation with a neighbor recently. I own 5, have permission to hunt 40, about 30 of woods. He owns 120, about 60 of woods and said I don't have any business hunting that small of a place. You can tell I think what he did is a dick move and its very similar to your situation. Rant over.

Sounds like you have a problem with building trust with the neighbor's on the other properties.

There must be a reason why the are denying you access ... I would focus more on what you can do to change the relationship to build trust rather than calling them names.

As the newbie or the guy with "permission" you are never in a position of strength ... you need to find a way to work within their rules, not yours.

 

[westonwhitetail]

It's also a bummer for the deer. But it wasn't Bill's mistake. It was the hunter's mistake. If no one was hunting Bill's land you might have a case. But Bill is not responsible for other people's mistakes on other people's land, and no one has any right to ruin Bill's use of his own land because of their mistakes.

In my opinion, the guy hunting the five acres should have waited til gun season. But us talking about it amongst ourselves is completely different from us going and telling that hunter how we feel about it.

Yeah that’s a good point he maybe should wait till gun hunting so he can drop em and not put his neighbor in a tough situation


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[westonwhitetail]

Sounds like you have a problem with building trust with the neighbor's on the other properties.

There must be a reason why the are denying you access ... I would focus more on what you can do to change the relationship to build trust rather than calling them names.

As the newbie or the guy with "permission" you are never in a position of strength ... you need to find a way to work within their rules, not yours.

Your right building trust is important and I have done so with the other 4 neighbors. In this case, I did try. I brought him maple syrup I made in the spring and stopped to ask permission before season 2-3 times but no one was home and he didn’t return calls.

Other neighbors also have issues with him and warned me about him when I moved in. He has a trail camera pointing at his front door, so he’s obviously had bad experiences in the past before me too or just paranoid. Wish I knew a better way to approach the situation because it is frustrating..


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[Telemark]

Yeah that’s a good point he maybe should wait till gun hunting so he can drop em and not put his neighbor in a tough situation


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I did that for a long time before I was confident with a crossbow. I missed out on a lot of good hunts because of the risk of losing deer. (Years earlier I had lost the first deer I ever shot with a crossbow, and still the only deer I have ever lost) When I finally felt proficient and confident with a crossbow again I went hunting in October in Ohio and got a nice mature buck. It's the responsibility of the hunter to kill his quarry. It's not the neighbors' collective responsibility to help the hunter clean up his mess. I truly think that if trophy hunting or horn porn ends up killing hunting it will be due to the carelessness of hunters desperate to take that big buck. I have seen a LOT of big mature bucks lost to careless bowhunters, and it drives me nuts. The responsibility is always on the hunter who pulls the trigger.

 

[Telemark]

Your right building trust is important and I have done so with the other 4 neighbors. In this case, I did try. I brought him maple syrup I made in the spring and stopped to ask permission before season 2-3 times but no one was home and he didn’t return calls.

Other neighbors also have issues with him and warned me about him when I moved in. He has a trail camera pointing at his front door, so he’s obviously had bad experiences in the past before me too or just paranoid. Wish I knew a better way to approach the situation because it is frustrating..


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Is it possible to build a fence or hedgerow to prevent deer running onto his property?

 

[Bill]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

 

[Peplin Creek]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

At the end of the day, that’s all that matters. Good luck the rest of your season to you and your family.

 

[Tree Spud]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

Arrgggh ... stay away from the cliff of shame, that is what all these internet pussies want you to do ... they are here to virture signal and to challenge reasoned, experienced, decision making based on fact not emotion. Killing an animal with a bow is a very primal and brutal endeavor.

The Kevin's on this site want you to feel bad about any decision if it didn't make the other person happy. What bullsetz.

The meat was not wasted as nothing is wasted by Mother Nature ... many wild things took advantage of the animal if it was dead.

You provided the kid some tough love that he will hopefully use to become a better hunter ... 250+ yards and a drip of blood every 10 yards ... I have had worse nose bleeds ,.,

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I agree. If it was falling down, and for sure dead in 50 yards I probably would have helped him out a bit, but after coming to me 17 hours later, like Bill said, the meat would have been bad anyhow, and Bill said if he found it later he would give it to him, shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

Under those exact circumstances Bill I think you made the right decision. There was no way you were going to ever make everybody happy. Brand new guy, two properties over, 17 hours after the fact, with temps. near 70....you told him you'd keep an eye out and return the skull if found...you maintained the integrity of your son's hunt...I would have done the same.

 

[Mortenson]

I like how you look out for your son. I read the ag forum a lot, and many of the guys on there act like if you don't have your sons bleeding, broke and working 24/7/365, and left behind in the will, then it's a shame. When I was younger my dad stood up for my hunting too. Other hunters we had would shoot deer opening morning then screw everything up getting the deer up and out, then come right back in and keep filling tags. It was ignorant. Finally had enough and he said hit the road. No reasons given. They all had other spots. Usually guys have a backup spot or two. Finally we had decent hunting on our own land for the first time. It's nice to think you actually have a chance outside of opening morning. There's actually a corner of woods where a deer can emerge from.

IL's first gun season starts next Friday. We usually stay out of our farm that whole week leading up to it. Try to be done with bowhunting by today, at least just to give the 1st gun weekend it's best chance, have some fresh, undisturbed deer. There'll be neighboring bowhunters hitting it hard right up til the opener. Some of these guys also hunt the property lines. Am I supposed to let these guys in to track deer on Wed or Thur? We have areas that we haven't set foot in since shed season, and some fool expects to go marching through a day before our opener. Just a question for the crowd who says you never deny access for a wounded or dead deer. They have every right to hunt. But we have rights too. It's like the fenceline sitting debate. Obviously there's exceptions but it's just a show of respect to get at least 30 or 40 yards off the lines. Shows you're trying, and I'll get along you alot better when you need to enter my place.

Edited for typos as always.

 

[Buckly]

my Dad never hunted but we had lots of property. He gave permission to a lot of people and neighbors to hunt and retrieve. . It was tough for me when I was starting out. Back then you didnt buy tree stands you built them. there Was always neighbors or people hunting the property that told me I was intruding. ON OUR OWN LAND. I was constantly harassed by these people. I once built a stand and went out opening day. Got in stand and I guy walks up and starts chewing me out because he wanted to hunt my stand. Lol. I didn’t think it was funny at the time. Anyways after years of this when I was young I went to my dad with these issues. when I turned 18 my dad gave me full control of the property. Things changed. Lol. And it wasn’t an isolationist view. Non neighbors were out. Neighbors didn’t like it it at all but over many, many years relationships developed with adjacent land owners in a different way. It worked out But at least my dad listened to me and took my interests over the mob. (

 

[westonwhitetail]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

I didn’t realize that it was so long after the shot and warm, the meat was certainly trash. Sorry I took out my frustrations with my neighbor on ya Bill, your situation was different


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[Bill]

I didn’t realize that it was so long after the shot and warm, the meat was certainly trash. Sorry I took out my frustrations with my neighbor on ya Bill, your situation was different


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no need to apologize. It’s a touchy subject. I can see a guy falling on either side of this fence.

 

[Booner21]

I like how you look out for your son. I read the ag forum a lot, and many of the guys on there act like if you don't have your sons bleeding, broke and working 24/7/365, and left behind in the will, then it's a shame. When I was younger my dad stood up for my hunting too. Other hunters we had would shoot deer opening morning then screw everything up getting the deer up and out, then come right back in and keep filling tags. It was ignorant. Finally had enough and he said hit the road. No reasons given. They all had other spots. Usually guys have a backup spot or two. Finally we had decent hunting on our own land for the first time. It's nice to think you actually have a chance outside of opening morning. There's actually a corner of woods where a deer can emerge from.

IL's first gun season starts next Friday. We usually stay out of our farm that whole week leading up to it. Try to be done with bowhunting by today, at least just to give the 1st gun weekend it's best chance, have some fresh, undisturbed deer. There'll be neighboring bowhunters hitting it hard right up til the opener. Some of these guys also hunt the property lines. Am I supposed to let these guys in to track deer on Wed or Thur? We have areas that we haven't set foot in since shed season, and some fool expects to go marching through a day before our opener. Just a question for the crowd who says you never deny access for a wounded or dead deer. They have every right to hunt. But we have rights too. It's like the fenceline sitting debate. Obviously there's exceptions but it's just a show of respect to get at least 30 or 40 yards off the lines. Shows you're trying, and I'll get along you alot better when you need to enter my place.

Edited for typos as always.

I always struggle with this as my property seems to be the local sanctuary and the neighbors deer always seem to end up on me. In 10 years I have had to go look for 1 on the neighbors that was a poor shot on my part. This year alone there have been 3 calls to recover deer. I haven’t told anybody no yet that has asked but have been very tempted. Especially the I shot a doe on November 10th it ran into your thicket mind if I go In and get it? I did deny 1 neighbor that decided to not call first and I caught them tracking without permission. We had just had a call 3 months prior and I gave them my phone number and asked to be called before accessing property.

I leave my property alone for gun season and about half the time the neighbor has to go track a deer through my sanctuary and usually does and small bucks.


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[weekender21]

17 hours after the fact definitely changes my perspective. You can always offer to let them look for antlers after deer season. Different story if they contact you 5 minutes after the shot in my opinion.

I’m on the phone with neighbors immediately after the shot and have always been granted permission even if it’s not needed.

Way too many people on my place without permission to deny access to those with enough respect to ask.


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