Broke a guys heart permission to track denied

[Howboutthemdawgs]

To 356's list above:
Permission must go both ways too. I a sure there are a number of "one Way Willys" out there.
Not a habitual offender.
One person, not a crowd.
Weapon type, being loaded and use would be discretional based on the injury and location.

Shooting down a drone is a felony. It will be my first felony if in range.

My thoughts on a drone is a) good luck proving it was me. Deny till you die and b) if it’s low and slow enough for me to shoot down it shouldn’t be where it’s at

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I have been following this thread with interest. On Saturday I received a call from my wife during my final day of deer camp saying a nieghbor wanted permission to track a deer his son shot that went on our property. A few minutes later another neighbor said he saw the son shoot the deer on our property. He confirmed there were two shoots, about a half minute apart. Well, it turns out I had the deer in question on camera, and believe the original shoot was on their property, as that would be a normal travel route of this deer. While it is possible the follow-up shot was on our property, it may have been on their property.

Given no-one was hunting the property that day, I gave permission. A few minutes later I had the deer on another camera. The shot was clearly poor, and the search needed to be suspended for 24 hours (see picture below). They agreed to pull out and let the deer expire, and I told them by phone that I would be happy to help retrieve the deer the next day. Due to the cold front, I assured them the meat would be OK. This was their first experience with a gut shot deer, so I explained the process.

View attachment 71520.


When I contacted the father the next day I was informed “we went back in and looked for the deer and didn’t find it, so we are filling our tag on another deer.” Sure enough, they bumped the wounded deer where it was bedded, which in its home range bed, and it left our property. Sadly, this buck will now die and rot! Grrr.

Lesson: I am putting together written guidelines for access. Therefore, if I am not home, my wife can provide the guidelines. Items I will include are:
1) Permission will be granted when it does not interfere with ongoing hunts. Only permission via text or email will be valid, and only on the day of the recovery.
2) A review of cell camera data will be undertaken before the search begins
3) If possible, I will assist with the recovery.
4) Each recovery visit to the property (even for the same animal or on the same day) will require permission via email or text
5) Permission may be withdrawn at any time for any reason by the landowner
6) No use of vehicles (including UTVs, ATVs).
7) Use of drones or dogs will require additional permission by the landowner after speaking with drone and/or dog owner/operator.

I’d be interested in what others might add or remove to this list.

That is a tough story. Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering if they were obligated to keep looking for the deer, given they had permission? Is it considered waste if you give up on an active blood trail? Also, did they bring a legal hunting firearm with them when looking for the deer?

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I'll share a story that happened to us last year on opening morning.

My parents place has dramatically changed in just the last 3 or 4 years. We went from only having neighbors on the south of us that hunted two being surrounded when some land was split up. We had yet to meet one group of the new neighbors. Well as it turns out on opening morning they apparently shot a buck that they saw run onto our property. They came down and introduced themselves and asked permission to track the buck.

My dad granted permission but asked that if they bump the deer or if it makes it all the way to our ag fields on the south side of the property (from the north where they are tracking from), that they suspend the tracking. For context this would have been crossing a road and two wood lots, a total of about 600 yards in a straight line. Well, we eventually see them tracking about 200 yards from the south property line, with them at the farm south end of the AG field, meaning they went past where my Dad had asked them to stop and wait. We went down and picked them up and offered to let them track the next day, but apparently the blood trail had run out and they were grid searching now. They definitely weren't going out of their way to make a good first impression with their new neighbors. To top it all off, they only had a pistol on them. I still need to check with a conservation officer for what the protocol is. I have heard conflicting info on if you should have a hunting firearm with you or not when retrieving an animal on a neighbor's land.

We ended up seeing our best buck this year with a recovering neck wound the following summer and believe this was the deer they injured.

Questions for the peanut gallery:
Is it fair/reasonable to give people limits on where they can track on your property?

When recovering an animal, would you rather they have their hunting weapon with themor nothing at all?

 

[356]

That is a tough story. Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering if they were obligated to keep looking for the deer, given they had permission? Is it considered waste if you give up on an active blood trail? Also, did they bring a legal hunting firearm with them when looking for the deer?

Once the deer left our property, they tracked it on our neighbors farm (a landowner who has graciously gave me permission to successfully recover a bow season doe earlier this season). Not finding the buck that afternoon, they gave up. With the gut shot, I doubt there was much blood and the deer likely ended up two farms down.

In Missouri, one is obligated to search, but can not trespass. Only a firearm/weapon legal for the season can be used. This would allow a centerfire pistol in Missouri. The frustration is that I am confident the deer would have bedded down and expired in the bedding area about 50 yards behind where this camera is located.

From the camera photos, a legal hunting firearm was with the hunter when tracking. You bring up a good point, if the deer is still alive, how do I feel about the kill shot on my property? I don’t want the animal to suffer, so I guess I would be fine with a legal kill shot from someone I gave permission to recovery an animal.

 

[H20fwler]

Here a hunter MUST have legal written permission to cross a property line.

I’ve had guys say they hit a deer just to try and push a deer they had been running out. I want to see the blood trail… if none no way, if good we can go together after dark and look for it.

Line sitters that would ever face a stand into me…no way.

I am also reciprocal with neighbors on retrieving deer. I just have one that is a tool, as soon as I bought my farm he trespassed on me to bitch me out for posting my own ground, he only has a 1/4 a farmstead patch across road..his brother around the corner owns all the farm ground. This neighbor has been a total dick ever since. If we wound anything that goes over on his brothers ground it’s just gone…won’t even ask. Have forfeited one in ten years.
His brother may be cool but I’ll never know and don’t care, I have no room in my life for any of their mess.

 

[hillrunner]

I'll share a story that happened to us last year on opening morning.

My parents place has dramatically changed in just the last 3 or 4 years. We went from only having neighbors on the south of us that hunted two being surrounded when some land was split up. We had yet to meet one group of the new neighbors. Well as it turns out on opening morning they apparently shot a buck that they saw run onto our property. They came down and introduced themselves and asked permission to track the buck.

My dad granted permission but asked that if they bump the deer or if it makes it all the way to our ag fields on the south side of the property (from the north where they are tracking from), that they suspend the tracking. For context this would have been crossing a road and two wood lots, a total of about 600 yards in a straight line. Well, we eventually see them tracking about 200 yards from the south property line, with them at the farm south end of the AG field, meaning they went past where my Dad had asked them to stop and wait. We went down and picked them up and offered to let them track the next day, but apparently the blood trail had run out and they were grid searching now. They definitely weren't going out of their way to make a good first impression with their new neighbors. To top it all off, they only had a pistol on them. I still need to check with a conservation officer for what the protocol is. I have heard conflicting info on if you should have a hunting firearm with you or not when retrieving an animal on a neighbor's land.

We ended up seeing our best buck this year with a recovering neck wound the following summer and believe this was the deer they injured.

Questions for the peanut gallery:
Is it fair/reasonable to give people limits on where they can track on your property?

When recovering an animal, would you rather they have their hunting weapon with themor nothing at all?

If they are following blood, I'd let them keep tracking. Once the blood trail has dried up and they are just body searching, I think it's reasonable to limit or suspend as no one really knows where it went after that. If you put a poor enough shot on a deer that it's able to go that far, I don't think your neighbor should feel compelled to have his whole property grid searched on the slight chance they might find it dead in there .

 

[gjs4]

My thoughts on a drone is a) good luck proving it was me. Deny till you die and b) if it’s low and slow enough for me to shoot down it shouldn’t be where it’s at

Not sure how many of you watch Drone Deer Recovery on YT but there have been multiple instances of his drones being shot at (and at night!)

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Well it’s been over 2 1/2 days and we’ve yet to see a crow dive into that finger. Or anywhere else for that matter.
And after thinking about for 2 days, it was a jerk move.

Having said that I’d make it the same way again. I put my family’s interest (my son) over the interests of a guy I met 3 minutes prior to making the decision. And I’d do that again. Doesn’t mean I’d enjoy it because I didn’t/don’t but family is first.

As for the meat, again IMO, it was wasted before I got involved. Shot 17 hours before I was in the picture in high 60 degree weather.

Not trying to justify it or get affirmation. Just stating how I look at it now after some time has passed.

My curiosity would get the best of me. I'd have to go take a sneaky walk through that timber.
Did you consider that?

 

[Telemark]

My thoughts on a drone is a) good luck proving it was me.

They're generally recording video. You would almost certainly have a problem. Those drones cost at least 10k. The owner of the drone would press charges for sure.

 

[Turkish]

I have been following this thread with interest. On Saturday I received a call from my wife during my final day of deer camp saying a nieghbor wanted permission to track a deer his son shot that went on our property. A few minutes later another neighbor said he saw the son shoot the deer on our property. He confirmed there were two shoots, about a half minute apart. Well, it turns out I had the deer in question on camera, and believe the original shoot was on their property, as that would be a normal travel route of this deer. While it is possible the follow-up shot was on our property, it may have been on their property.

Given no-one was hunting the property that day, I gave permission. A few minutes later I had the deer on another camera. The shot was clearly poor, and the search needed to be suspended for 24 hours (see picture below). They agreed to pull out and let the deer expire, and I told them by phone that I would be happy to help retrieve the deer the next day. Due to the cold front, I assured them the meat would be OK. This was their first experience with a gut shot deer, so I explained the process.

View attachment 71520.


When I contacted the father the next day I was informed “we went back in and looked for the deer and didn’t find it, so we are filling our tag on another deer.” Sure enough, they bumped the wounded deer where it was bedded, which in its home range bed, and it left our property. Sadly, this buck will now die and rot! Grrr.

Lesson: I am putting together written guidelines for access. Therefore, if I am not home, my wife can provide the guidelines. Items I will include are:
1) Permission will be granted when it does not interfere with ongoing hunts. Only permission via text or email will be valid, and only on the day of the recovery.
2) A review of cell camera data will be undertaken before the search begins
3) If possible, I will assist with the recovery.
4) Each recovery visit to the property (even for the same animal or on the same day) will require permission via email or text
5) Permission may be withdrawn at any time for any reason by the landowner
6) No use of vehicles (including UTVs, ATVs).
7) Use of drones or dogs will require additional permission by the landowner after speaking with drone and/or dog owner/operator.

I’d be interested in what others might add or remove to this list.

Accepted forms of remuneration are cash and bourbon.

 

[Bill]

My curiosity would get the best of me. I'd have to go take a sneaky walk through that timber.
Did you consider that?

Ha! Nope. Never walked through there until the next spring. And he wasn't in there. He was in a far off switch grass field. Found him by accident while driving around looking for sheds. We could have grid searched that block of timber and we wouldn't have found him.

 

[roymunson]

Are you at all bothered that they were searching your property with a drone without telling you or did they ask first?

Not crazy about it, but it's not hurting me. Given the choice, I'd say please don't, but they're not hurting the hunting, they're folks I have a relationship with, not outlaws and ruffians. There's worse. You can bet if I've got a little extra time with the drone guy when he's at my place we're making a swipe over his. Not running off deer, but I like to see deer. Much like watching his field.

Bigger hills to die on IMO

 

[roymunson]

My thoughts on a drone is a) good luck proving it was me. Deny till you die and b) if it’s low and slow enough for me to shoot down it shouldn’t be where it’s at

i understand the sentiment, but let's say your justified in principle, but wrong by the law, is it worth the financial/legal ramifications if you get in trouble shooting something down or have to retain an attorney? Even if you're right and get away with it, the pissed off neighbors looking to stick it to you forever and the hassle isn't worth a drone fly over.

But that's just me. Maybe you win in court, but you've got a target on you now and i'd rather not be the neighborhood A-hole because some day I'm sure I'll need a favor too.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

i understand the sentiment, but let's say your justified in principle, but wrong by the law, is it worth the financial/legal ramifications if you get in trouble shooting something down or have to retain an attorney? Even if you're right and get away with it, the pissed off neighbors looking to stick it to you forever and the hassle isn't worth a drone fly over.

But that's just me. Maybe you win in court, but you've got a target on you now and i'd rather not be the neighborhood A-hole because some day I'm sure I'll need a favor too.

Your thought process isn’t unreasonable, in fact it’s more reasonable. But this gross invasion of privacy that we are allowing has to stop. If me shooting down a $10k drone that is flying low and slow enough for me to shoot down opens up a conversation about the legality and validity of this action, I guess it’s a fight worth fighting. Additionally if I have a neighbor who is willing to invade my privacy aerially, they aren’t a neighbor I give a damn about their feelings anyway.
Not to mention I can claim I was scared. I’ve seen way too many videos of drones wrecking absolute unimaginable terror on the battlefield the past two years. I don’t know what someone is up to flying over me that way.

FUNKER530 | Military Videos and News

Funker530: Combat footage and military news for the veteran community.

funker530.com

 

[roymunson]

Your thought process isn’t unreasonable, in fact it’s more reasonable. But this gross invasion of privacy that we are allowing has to stop. If me shooting down a $10k drone that is flying low and slow enough for me to shoot down opens up a conversation about the legality and validity of this action, I guess it’s a fight worth fighting. Additionally if I have a neighbor who is willing to invade my privacy aerially, they aren’t a neighbor I give a damn about their feelings anyway.
Not to mention I can claim I was scared. I’ve seen way too many videos of drones wrecking absolute unimaginable terror on the battlefield the past two years. I don’t know what someone is up to flying over me that way.

FUNKER530 | Military Videos and News

Funker530: Combat footage and military news for the veteran community.

funker530.com

suit yourself.

That stance feels more like the Wyoming corner crossing situation. If that dude had shut up and said "guys, i don't really want you doing this, but just do it and keep it to yourself" he'd have 4 guys crossing. Now he's gonna have everyone hunting that spot and potentially all over the state as well. JMO.

I'd be a neighbor and live to fight another day. Or say, sure, fly my place, but I wanna watch and it's on your dime

 

[swat1018]

The FAA has fined law enforcement agencies a quarter of a million for operating their drones without the proper commercial license, they have bigger teeth and deeper pockets than most should mess with.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

The FAA has fined law enforcement agencies a quarter of a million for operating their drones without the proper commercial license, they have bigger teeth and deeper pockets than most should mess with.

You seem to know something about the legality surrounding these things. What rights do landowners have in terms of privacy? We always hear about what rights drone “pilots” have, where are the rights of the individual having his privacy shattered?

 

[356]

Here are my 10 Commandments of Permission to Search for a Wounded Deer:
1) Permission will be granted when it does not interfere with current hunts on the property
2) Only permission via text or email will be valid, and only on the day of the recovery
3) Permission must reciprocal
4) A review of cell camera data will be undertaken to assist the search before it begins
5) If possible, landowner will assist with the search and recovery
6) Each recovery visit to the property (even for the same animal or on the same day) will require permission via email or text
7) Permission may be withdrawn at any time for any reason by the landowner
8) No use of vehicles (including UTVs, ATVs) unless approved by landowner
9) Use of drones or dogs will require additional permission by the landowner after speaking with drone and/or dog owner/operator
10) No group searches or grid searches, as they will ruining hunting for weeks, unless written permission granted.

While this list may change, it is a good starting point and I my wife and I have it ready to use on my phone, iPad and computer.

 

[swat1018]

You seem to know something about the legality surrounding these things. What rights do landowners have in terms of privacy? We always hear about what rights drone “pilots” have, where are the rights of the individual having his privacy shattered?

Most of deer country is going to fall in FAA Class G, or basically uncontrolled, airspace. Class G airspace extends from the ground up to Class E airspace at 1200' AGL. UAVs are actually prohibited from flying above 400' AGL without waiver from the FAA. Meaning a UAV can only legally operate from 0-400' AGL. It also means that they are just as legal at 10' as they are at 100 or 400'.

Many states have state statutes that protect against UAV voyeurism. Most of these laws have a sexual component and don't mention deer. I'm obviously not familiar with very many state statutes, just the state that I have operated within.

I am a Part 107 FAA certificate holder, meaning I can operate a sUAV commercially. I flew for a law enforcement agency before I retired. I am not a subject matter expert in all things FAA, just know enough to maintain my certification.

 

[bwoods11]

I have a friend in Minnesota, that’s one of the best habitat guys I know. He had created a very nice bedding sanctuary, and They do not access it . It’s full of deer.

On opening day of gun season he gets a call from the neighbor saying they shot a fork buck in the leg and it ran in there .

He got in to a bit of an argument with him because it screws up his entire weekend. They stay out of there all year, and this guy wounds a fork on a long shot and wants to go in there.

Long story short —He did let them track it …but he said that might be a one time deal . I can totally understand his frustration and would probably do the same. Tough call .