Antonovka vs B.118

chummer

5 year old buck +
It appears much of my order from cummins got switched from B.118 to Antonovka root stock. I am not sure if this is a big deal or not. The only negative I could find was it takes Antonovka longer to fruit but that was when compared to dwarf root stocks. They switched my chestnut, enterprise, and goldrush to Antonovka and my dolgos to G.202. Hopefully this is an error because most of these were ordered last November. Thought I better know what I am dealing with before I call them. Thanks for any help.
 

leexrayshady

5 year old buck +
not sure how cold you get chummer but a orchardist I heard a talk from about a week ago said Antonovka was bad for having winter injury/die off of the top part, the b series b9 b118 was excellent for withstanding winter injury,
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
not sure how cold you get chummer but a orchardist I heard a talk from about a week ago said Antonovka was bad for having winter injury/die off of the top part, the b series b9 b118 was excellent for withstanding winter injury,
We had a couple -30's last year but typically -20's is low as it gets.
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
I'd always read that antonovka was winter hardy. B118 seems to be more vigorous on my property.
Have noticed a difference in length of time to fruit?
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
Mine have not fruited yet except an apple or two. The oldest were planted in 2010. Most would have fruited this year but, late frost got some and the moose have over pruned a few. Hopefully next year they will all fruit. I think they both would do fine for getting large loads in 10 years. If one beats the other by a year or two does it matter in the long run? If the tree isn't fruiting it's growing roots and wood to handle larger loads later on.

If you really want B118 I would check ACN or order some rootstock and graft this March. Rootstock and scions you're looking at under $5 per tree.
10 years is the plan so that would work. All of last years trees were B.118 and I am getting 5 liberty on B.118 so I will have a good mix. I just need to find out what happened to the dolgos on G.202, pretty sure they are not going to work.
 

2ndHand

5 year old buck +
Here's what I received today from Cummins regarding the antonovak root stock:

"...when you see "antonovka" in our inventory this year it actually means P.18, which is an extremely vigorous and cold hardy cross of Antonovka out of Poland. Will have the programmer enter the new code here soon!"
 

sandbur

5 year old buck +
not sure how cold you get chummer but a orchardist I heard a talk from about a week ago said Antonovka was bad for having winter injury/die off of the top part, the b series b9 b118 was excellent for withstanding winter injury,
I have some antanovka where I live and they have done OK. but I live south of the area the speaker was discussing.

I was at the meeting also. Two points,-Perhaps all antanovka are not the same. I also wonder if our climate on the edge of the prairie gives B118 an advantage over antanovka. Cold, drought, wind, maybe B118 is better. Maybe not depending on the soil.

the speaker was referring to an area of light soil from what the surrounding habiat looked like. Lee would know better, but I saw irrigation rigs in the area.

My antanovka did well on the heavier soils of mine.
 

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
My experience is much the same as yours, Bur. My camp has heavier, clay type soil and the Antonovka has done well here. Got the trees from SLN. Dolgo, All - Winter - Hangover, & Centennial crabs specifically.

Edit - We have Antonovka, B-118, and MM-111 rootstocks with grafted trees growing on them. Haven't noticed any big differences between them so far. All doing well.
 
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chummer

5 year old buck +
Here's what I received today from Cummins regarding the antonovak root stock:

"...when you see "antonovka" in our inventory this year it actually means P.18, which is an extremely vigorous and cold hardy cross of Antonovka out of Poland. Will have the programmer enter the new code here soon!"
Finally talked to cummins today. They told me this P.18 is an improved version of B.118. It will be the same size tree, fruit sooner, be more cold hardy, and it won't get something to do with knots. Not sure what he meant about that last one.
 

Lot2Learn

5 year old buck +
I trust the guys at Cummins, but the 'fruit sooner' portion of that statement contradicts this blurb that I found on the internet (I wasn't able to find much and this site may have it wrong) that says that P.18 is less 'precocious' than mm.111, which I thought was generally agreed to be less precocious than b.118: http://www.extension.org/pages/60852/apple-rootstock-info:-p18#.VEA8X0twWR8
 

wiscwhip

5 year old buck +
I'm not an apple tree guy in the least, but are apples susceptable to root knot nematodes? If so, maybe that is what he was referring to? More and more varieties of improved alfalfa are nematode resistant cultivars, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had improved apple rootstock that was as well.
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
The link above says produces few bur knots. Not sure what they are but I think that is what they told me.
 

CrazyEd

5 year old buck +
Wonder if P18 does as good as B118 in beach sand.
 

Maya

5 year old buck +
Keep in mind the jury is still out on these newer roots. Nothing is set in stone until they are in different settings for decades. Any talks I've gone to, and the experts are talking about these different rootstocks they are always careful to say, "so far".

Chummer, what did they do? Oversell the varieties that you ordered or did they just not grade out so they substituted?
 
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sandbur

5 year old buck +
Maya-does anybody use dolgo or Columbia in the NE?
 

Maya

5 year old buck +
Not that I know of, Mallings, Buds, and quite a few Genevas. You're growing a bunch right? I've got a few younger Dolgos, but nothing grafted to them.
 

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
Question - Do burr knots cause any probs. with production on trees grown for deer? MM-111 rootstock was recommended by a Penn State professor for the soil where my camp is located. Stu? Maya?
 

Maya

5 year old buck +
What is all this talk about Burr knots about? I have some on a few trees in low areas, not a big deal. To answer your question Bows, it could be a weak area (down by the graft union) where different problems could effect the trees. Breakage in high wind, pests/ pathogens like fire blight, borers, woolly apple aphids etc. Normally the only trees effected are in moist areas. This is one reason why I have always suggested using window screen as vol guards to get better air flow at the base of tree. Also a good reason for good ground maintenance, keeping tall weeds down.

I wouldn't loose any sleep over burr knots. Screen them good, keep the weeds down and the more sun, the better. If you are using a good spray schedule on the trees, all the better.

I've got some really nice trees on Malling, Buds and Genevas, I don't go crazy about worrying about them except to match the root to the size, growing system and disease resistance. My conditions here are optimum for apples but some of you have things like extreme cold and poor soils, so I can understand trying to match the proper roots for those conditions, but burr knots are lower on the list when selecting a root, unless it's abnormally humid where you are intending to grow them imo.
 

Maya

5 year old buck +
Ya beat me Stu!
 

chummer

5 year old buck +
Keep in mind the jury is still out on these newer roots. Nothing is set in stone until they are in different settings for decades. Any talks I've gone to, and the experts are talking about these different rootstocks they are always careful to say, "so far".

Chummer, what did they do? Oversell the varieties that you ordered or did they just not grade out so they substituted?
They told me they switched to it because they believe it is an improved root stock. I ordered them last year so I am not sure why they didn't tell me then. Other than liberty the four other varieties I ordered all got switched.
 
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