Best late season, LOW/NO maintenance apple.

[Rally1148]

Hey all,

So I think I've figured out some of my problems with my neighbor. I've got one spot that nobody goes to, it's an island in the middle of a swamp. I've got a treestand in there, but I can't get in there without making noise. My new plan is to put up a blind for rifle about 150 yards away. No equipment can get in there, but it's pretty solid ground, as white pines grow on it.

My plan is to "throw and grow" turnips, and put in a few (4-6) apple trees that will be for rifle and late season (November 15-Jan 1).

One of the BEST things about this spot is that it is almost NEVER disturbed, so I don't want to have to go in multiple times a year and do a bunch of spraying. If I can go in once a month and spray for Japanese Beetles and that's it, it would be EXACTLY what I'm looking for. So basically I'm looking for apples that will grow well (I don't care about cosmetics AT ALL). I was thinking putting 3 on B.118 because they'll produce a fair amount in 5-8 years, and then 2-3 on P.18 or Antonovka, just because they'll put out a few more, but they'll take double the time to put out that much.

As of now, I'm thinking of mainly using Goldrush, and that winter wildlife crab that everybody raves about.


Do you have any other ideas for apples that would fit my needs?

 

[deepsleep]

I'm down in Jackson County, so same zone I think. I have done minimal spraying and have been impressed with Yates, Violi's Crab, and Arkansas Black and Florina Querina as late droppers go. I haven't had Goldrush fully ripen yet, but not sure the deer will care, and they have been precocious for me. They do get lots of CAR, but it doesn't seem to bother the tree too much. I also have a wild crab that has had apples the first week in November and is crisp and sweet. It has never been sprayed and grows in some pretty low ground. I budded a couple of those last fall, and will be able to see pretty soon what they do in a bit more controlled environment. I don't have any bearing yet, but others have had good luck with Enterprise as well. One final thought, I planted a few potted Kieffers about 5 years ago, and they have been the most foolproof. They seem to drop during November on my place as well. Sounds like a good plan with rootstock. For the first couple years I wished I had planted more semi-dwarfs. Now that I am 5 years in, I wish I had planted more standards.

 

[sandbur]

Rally-Remind me in the winter and I can send you some crab apple scion.

 

[CrazyEd]

Hey all,

So I think I've figured out some of my problems with my neighbor. I've got one spot that nobody goes to, it's an island in the middle of a swamp. I've got a treestand in there, but I can't get in there without making noise. My new plan is to put up a blind for rifle about 150 yards away. No equipment can get in there, but it's pretty solid ground, as white pines grow on it.

My plan is to "throw and grow" turnips, and put in a few (4-6) apple trees that will be for rifle and late season (November 15-Jan 1).

One of the BEST things about this spot is that it is almost NEVER disturbed, so I don't want to have to go in multiple times a year and do a bunch of spraying. If I can go in once a month and spray for Japanese Beetles and that's it, it would be EXACTLY what I'm looking for. So basically I'm looking for apples that will grow well (I don't care about cosmetics AT ALL). I was thinking putting 3 on B.118 because they'll produce a fair amount in 5-8 years, and then 2-3 on P.18 or Antonovka, just because they'll put out a few more, but they'll take double the time to put out that much.

As of now, I'm thinking of mainly using Goldrush, and that winter wildlife crab that everybody raves about.


Do you have any other ideas for apples that would fit my needs?

Goldrush gets CAR pretty bad in my area during years we get a lot of rain. Since you are planting in a swamp, I'm thinking avoiding varieties more prone to CAR might be wise. I would maybe look at something like Galarina or Northwest Greening which both hang late and have good disease resistance. Liberty and Enterprise too.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I think Keifer or some other hardy pear would be best bet in that situation. I think deer prefer pear to Apple anyway

 

[Rally1148]

Goldrush gets CAR pretty bad in my area during years we get a lot of rain. Since you are planting in a swamp, I'm thinking avoiding varieties more prone to CAR might be wise. I would maybe look at something like Galarina or Northwest Greening which both hang late and have good disease resistance. Liberty and Enterprise too.

Will Liberty and Enterprise drop late enough? My only worry with them dropping earlier is that I hunt the other portion of the property during archery, and while I want the deer to stop at the swamp island and eat in rifle, it would delay me seeing them during archery.

Rally-Remind me in the winter and I can send you some crab apple scion.

Will do, sir!

I'm down in Jackson County, so same zone I think. I have done minimal spraying and have been impressed with Yates, Violi's Crab, and Arkansas Black and Florina Querina as late droppers go. I haven't had Goldrush fully ripen yet, but not sure the deer will care, and they have been precocious for me. They do get lots of CAR, but it doesn't seem to bother the tree too much. I also have a wild crab that has had apples the first week in November and is crisp and sweet. It has never been sprayed and grows in some pretty low ground. I budded a couple of those last fall, and will be able to see pretty soon what they do in a bit more controlled environment. I don't have any bearing yet, but others have had good luck with Enterprise as well. One final thought, I planted a few potted Kieffers about 5 years ago, and they have been the most foolproof. They seem to drop during November on my place as well. Sounds like a good plan with rootstock. For the first couple years I wished I had planted more semi-dwarfs. Now that I am 5 years in, I wish I had planted more standards.

I've got 2 Keiffers on the other part, so I can grab some scions and try some pear grafting! As for the Goldrush, everything I've read says they ripen off the tree after ~2 months or so of storage. I'll loo into Florina Querina, and the others. As with most of my trees, I'm mainly worried about fireblight, and since I'm not worried about the cosmetics, I don't have to stick to the scab resistant varieties!

I think Keifer or some other hardy pear would be best bet in that situation. I think deer prefer pear to Apple anyway

I'll add those to the list!



I'm getting excited! It's going to be a real pain hauling all of the fencing back there next year, but in if any part of it goes as planned, in 5-10 years it will be 100% worth it!

 

[deepsleep]

I don't have Liberty/Enterprise bearing yet, but from previous posts on this board, I would say Liberty might drop a bit too early for you, but Enterprise should be fine. I know for sure that Yates, Violi's, Querina, Ark Black and Goldrush will all have some hangers on Nov 15th. I have a seedling Siberian from Coldstream, and the one we are calling Mookie Crab from my other property that I am propagating that will be holding onto some (not sure how many) on Nov 15th. Galarina is another late hanger, but this is my first crop, so I don't know when it starts to drop. It is very DR though. Kieffer will have dropped quite a few by then but should have a few (<25% from what I've seen), but is foolproof in our area. It is the only tree that has put on a good yearly crop so far. Also, pear is supposed to be very easy to t-bud. Not sure on W & T.
Also, I would rethink your feeling on scab resistance. Because there are plenty of scab-resistant varieties out there that deer will readily eat, I'm not sure why you would plant something that is susceptible. I have a large number of trees on remote food plots, and all of those trees are highly DR because I never plan on spraying them. Scab is not a cosmetic only disease, on bad years it can defoliate and weaken trees. We just started a minimal spray program over the past 2 years for my "yard" trees because I am adding some cider apples and family favorites. I don't like Macs, but it is my father's favorite, so I planted him a tree, and topworked an older crab to it this spring. The crab next to it, I worked to a Liberty. As you probably know, Liberty is very DR, Mac is scab prone. He forgot to spray these grafts this summer, and here are photos he sent me from a few weeks ago. You can figure out which is which. Although the Mac should survive, which do you think would do better with no spray over the next 10-20 years?





By the way, I may be able to get you some of these scions mentioned if my vacation works out right.

 

[chickenlittle]

Given the space limitation, I'd do one Goldrush and 5 different late crabs. I would not try to plant the same thing on 2 rootstocks. I'drather have variety to ensure something produces each year. As long as there are some apples, deer will keep checking for drops.

 

[Rally1148]

I don't have Liberty/Enterprise bearing yet, but from previous posts on this board, I would say Liberty might drop a bit too early for you, but Enterprise should be fine. I know for sure that Yates, Violi's, Querina, Ark Black and Goldrush will all have some hangers on Nov 15th. I have a seedling Siberian from Coldstream, and the one we are calling Mookie Crab from my other property that I am propagating that will be holding onto some (not sure how many) on Nov 15th. Galarina is another late hanger, but this is my first crop, so I don't know when it starts to drop. It is very DR though. Kieffer will have dropped quite a few by then but should have a few (<25% from what I've seen), but is foolproof in our area. It is the only tree that has put on a good yearly crop so far. Also, pear is supposed to be very easy to t-bud. Not sure on W & T.
Also, I would rethink your feeling on scab resistance. Because there are plenty of scab-resistant varieties out there that deer will readily eat, I'm not sure why you would plant something that is susceptible. I have a large number of trees on remote food plots, and all of those trees are highly DR because I never plan on spraying them. Scab is not a cosmetic only disease, on bad years it can defoliate and weaken trees. We just started a minimal spray program over the past 2 years for my "yard" trees because I am adding some cider apples and family favorites. I don't like Macs, but it is my father's favorite, so I planted him a tree, and topworked an older crab to it this spring. The crab next to it, I worked to a Liberty. As you probably know, Liberty is very DR, Mac is scab prone. He forgot to spray these grafts this summer, and here are photos he sent me from a few weeks ago. You can figure out which is which. Although the Mac should survive, which do you think would do better with no spray over the next 10-20 years?





By the way, I may be able to get you some of these scions mentioned if my vacation works out right.

I'm a dummy! I just meant that I wouldn't need to worry as much about scab resistance. But of course, most of the trees that are resistant to the others, are resistant to scab as well.

 

[Rally1148]

Given your described situation/desired results...I'd plant nothing but crabs. I've got wild crabs here that get zero maintenance and produce fruit annually. Some drop in September, some hold through the winter.

You state the area is "almost never disturbed"...you start going in there once a month through the spring/summer to spray for Jap beetles/whatever and to throw and mow turnips and it may lose a lot of its desirability for deer. Plant some crabs in 5' tubes, check on them twice a year...and stay the he!! out of there. My $.02

I take a trip in there once or twice a summer usually in the beginning and one in the end to make sure the tree stand is doing alright. I'll look into wild ones that I can find!

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I would plant 1yates, 1 arknsas black, 1 enterprise and a Keifer pear as they are self fertile I beleive

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm fairly new ( 4 yrs. ) at this apple planting thing, but I've done a TON of research and asked loads of ??? of some professors at Penn State, Cornell, Rutgers and U. Minn. Also some of the good gents on this forum who have experience. The DR late hangers that are the most recommended are Goldrush, Enterprise, Ark. Black, Galarina. Liberty is a super DR tree, but it drops too soon for your rifle season. I'd heed what the other guys in Wisc., Minn., and Mich. say about local late-hanging crabs too. If those crabs are thriving in tough climate / soil conditions, then they are proven trees. My own experience with crabs is that they are REAL TOUGH trees. I don't see disease on them like " regular apples " and even the bugs don't seem to like them much. That's why we planted so many crabs at my camp !!! ( Besides the great DR apples ).

 

[deepsleep]

I agree with Stu on staying out, but have found that disease resistance trees, when planted correctly, need almost no care. I have dozens of such trees in remote plots that only get looked at for winter pruning, and so far, so good. I also planted 150 or so seedling crabs from CSF that are now beginning to produce. They initially got mesh cages but the deer destroyed them, so they have small diameter 5' wire cages. Most have now been pruned so all scaffolds are above the cage. They grow like wildfire, but I am finding most have pea sized apples that don't drop at all. They look like raisins in the spring. I did find one Siberian with really nice golfball sized apples that are still on the tree at the end of Nov. This spring I started topworking these trees to DR crabs and apples with known drop times. I figure each one I've done this to will cost me a couple of extra years, but eventually I will have food plots surrounded with huge Liberty, Enterprise, Goldrush, Yates, Querina, Galarina, Violi, Ark Black, etc. trees. Also, I am propagating that larger Siberian Crab, the crab from my swamp, and a wild tree from my neighbor who says the deer prefer it. It is a bit more work (fun), but it is a lot cheaper than grafted trees.

 

[deepsleep]

About how big are the fruit? Ping pong ball? I'd take a scion off your hands if you had too many ;)

It is a tree on my other property that we named Crooked Gate. We had trouble finding a name for it, so when I t-budded it last summer, I just put "Crooked" on the flagging tape I marked it with. When I asked my dad this spring what t-buds were growing, he kept saying, that Mookie one is really taking off. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about, but when I went up there, looking at the back side of the tape (and upside down), it does look like I wrote Mookie, so this is now the Mookie Crab. I found it a couple seasons ago and have a treestand close to it. I gave the apples a try 2 falls ago in early November and they were about golf ball sized or slightly larger, crisp, very sweet, and just a bit tannic/astringent. I don't know when they fall, but at that time, there was still a pretty good crop on the tree. The few times I have seen the tree, the foliage is clean, despite a cedar tree within about 20 feet. It is also in some pretty low lying ground. It was covered up with big trees all around, so I had planned to release it. 2 winters ago, we had so much snow, I didn't bother going up to do any pruning or chainsaw work. Last fall, I got there to take some bud wood, which took. This past March, I had planned to get more scion, and release the tree, but I go a horrible virus on the plane, and ended up on the couch for most of my "vacation". Finally got in there early May, and despite being in almost full shade, the tree was covered up in blossoms. I cut a couple of the largest trees down, and will do more this winter. All this being said, it is still experimental for deer, but I think it may be a stellar deer and hard cider apple. With a bit more sunlight this past summer, I should have some good scion wood if I can time getting up there right. If I can pull it off, I'd be happy to send you some. Here is the tree this past spring.



Here are two t-buds on a Coldstream seedling crab, growing like wildfire. It appears to be a pretty vigorous grower. That is 5 foot fence, and it is a couple feet above it now.

 

[deepsleep]

Shouldn't be a problem at all Stu, if I can get up there at the right time--that is out of both of our control. It is definitely sweeter and less tannic than any other wild crab I have had. I know it hangs until at least early November, but maybe I'll get lucky and it will trickle down for months. It's all part of the fun! Here is the Siberian I referenced earlier as well. Slightly smaller than a ping pong ball, and much more tannic, but several of these apples were still hanging in March. I have put a few of these scions onto this tree's siblings which have BB to pea sized fruit that doesn't fall at all. Also a bit less DR, but not prohibitively so.

 

[bcbowman]

anybody have first hand knowledge of hudsons golden gem? everything i read says it would be a good wildlife apple, good disease resistance, annual bearer, late hanger, but i dont seem to see it mentioned much........

 

[aerospacefarmer]

anybody have first hand knowledge of hudsons golden gem? everything i read says it would be a good wildlife apple, good disease resistance, annual bearer, late hanger, but i dont seem to see it mentioned much........

I have 5 growing now and.they hang at my place until ripe then I eat them as they are one of the best tasting apples I have ever had. Only problem is that I have only gotten about 5 in the last 2 years and have about 6 on my trees now. I am hoping for a big crop next year 4th leaf so I can make some cider out if them also. They are russetted Apple and very juicy. They do ripen late so should hang late I think mid to late Oct

 

[Rally1148]

It is a tree on my other property that we named Crooked Gate. We had trouble finding a name for it, so when I t-budded it last summer, I just put "Crooked" on the flagging tape I marked it with. When I asked my dad this spring what t-buds were growing, he kept saying, that Mookie one is really taking off. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about, but when I went up there, looking at the back side of the tape (and upside down), it does look like I wrote Mookie, so this is now the Mookie Crab. I found it a couple seasons ago and have a treestand close to it. I gave the apples a try 2 falls ago in early November and they were about golf ball sized or slightly larger, crisp, very sweet, and just a bit tannic/astringent. I don't know when they fall, but at that time, there was still a pretty good crop on the tree. The few times I have seen the tree, the foliage is clean, despite a cedar tree within about 20 feet. It is also in some pretty low lying ground. It was covered up with big trees all around, so I had planned to release it. 2 winters ago, we had so much snow, I didn't bother going up to do any pruning or chainsaw work. Last fall, I got there to take some bud wood, which took. This past March, I had planned to get more scion, and release the tree, but I go a horrible virus on the plane, and ended up on the couch for most of my "vacation". Finally got in there early May, and despite being in almost full shade, the tree was covered up in blossoms. I cut a couple of the largest trees down, and will do more this winter. All this being said, it is still experimental for deer, but I think it may be a stellar deer and hard cider apple. With a bit more sunlight this past summer, I should have some good scion wood if I can time getting up there right. If I can pull it off, I'd be happy to send you some. Here is the tree this past spring.



Here are two t-buds on a Coldstream seedling crab, growing like wildfire. It appears to be a pretty vigorous grower. That is 5 foot fence, and it is a couple feet above it now.

I'd take some too, if you go into that area in the winter!

 

[j-bird]

I like the idea of planting different crabs and leaving well enough alone. Sounds like you have a real nice spot and any additional traffic is going to detract from that. My limited exp says stick with crabs for maint free applications. That is going to be what I do moving forward myself. Apples are a big PITA when my one crab has been a breeze - bought it as a pollinator. I plan to graft other crabs to it as well that are better at producing fruit. The less you screw with the area the more the deer will use it. Plant crabs, protect them, and check them on a limited basis. You will have a gold mine in just a few years.

 

[Rally1148]

Then it looks like I'll either be trying bench grafting next year, or I'll be Top working some seedlings in a year or two!