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Maya said:
Just to look at this from another angle. What size, do you want to have something with a permanent support system, will you be able to permanently fence? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if you would want to go smaller. If it were me, and these were for me I would always go smaller, but you need to fence and build a good support system. Mid sized, M-26, m7, g30 would fit the bill, they should be staked for at least 4 years if not more for 26 and G30, and if you block fence you can start scaffolds low for ease of training, pruning and picking. Also dwarf trees could be good for you too, but they really need a good support system. B9, G11 or 16 would fit that bill. Other than for deer, I'd never grow on B118, m111 or standard for myself.

Keep in mind a sandy loam is ideal for apples, so I'm not sure how "sandy" you believe the soil is. Obviously real sandy is tough on them, but a good sandy loam and several rootstocks would be acceptable.
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Hi Maya, My property is in a newly growing frac sand mining area. No mines nearby yet. However, the area in which I would like to plant the apple trees has a better soil mix. My hope was not to fence, but I can look into it. I was planning on going with individual cages made of concrete wire. Of the mid and dwarf size what would be the most hardy for my winters and limited watering ability?

Thank you!!
Jeff
 
No worries Jeff and Maya is the guy to listen to as far as rootstock and apple tree advice
 
The smaller the tree, the sooner they produce. If you plant on a dwarf rootstock, a whip will produce in 2-3 years and semi dwarf in 3-6. Training branches correctly will also get you apples sooner.
 
2ndHand said:
Hi Maya, My property is in a newly growing frac sand mining area. No mines nearby yet. However, the area in which I would like to plant the apple trees has a better soil mix. My hope was not to fence, but I can look into it. I was planning on going with individual cages made of concrete wire. Of the mid and dwarf size what would be the most hardy for my winters and limited watering ability?

Thank you!!
Jeff
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G30, M7will grow in the 14-16' range and would fit your criteria. Make sure you stake them well for at least 4 years, maybe even longer with G30. Make extra effort the first year to get up there and baby them. If you are not getting rain, make plans to water as much as possible. Use 20' pieces of fence and keep them fenced, or block fence. These trees will produce 2- 3 bushel or so. Keep weed competition down!
 
Maya said:
G30, M7will grow in the 14-16' range and would fit your criteria. Make sure you stake them well for at least 4 years, maybe even longer with G30. Make extra effort the first year to get up there and baby them. If you are not getting rain, make plans to water as much as possible. Use 20' pieces of fence and keep them fenced, or block fence. These trees will produce 2- 3 bushel or so. Keep weed competition down!
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Many thanks Maya!! I really appreciate the information:)... I've been reading about different root stocks, but I've been unsure if I should try something other than B118. I will prepare my 2015 Cummins order now using the G30/M7 root stock that you have suggested.

As far as fencing goes, I assume block fence means perimeter fencing? I am looking forward to starting the orchard. I have a contractor scheduled to complete the site work as soon as the travel weight limits are lifted (which should happen in the next week). Last fall we had the site cleared of all stumps, and then around Christmas time, we burned the stumps and remaining brush. The contractor is going to doze the left over brush/logs into the nearby woods and then grade the site. The orchard will be on the north side of a ridge - with a rolling downward slope. There is a spring time water run that goes through the site that empties into a 1/3 acre pond that we had built. I'm planning on planting buckwheat this spring to control weeds and Black Locust seeds. I haven't yet figured out what I should plant for the orchard floor (grass, clover or combo).

Thanks again...;)
 
No Clover. Generally we try not to have clover in the orchards. If you are going to get into spraying. A general pesticide like Imidan will kill bees. Bees love clover, so not a good mix. However, we do try and spray well after sundown and into dark to mitigate killing any bees. Generally as an added precaution though, we don't plant clover in orchards. I just use a good conservation mix w/o clover.

Plant with whatever rootstock floats your boat, but I just use B118 for deer apples. For my use and consumption and ease of growing, smaller is better, imo. Another variety you might consider that is the number one eating apple, is Honeycrisp. However many orchards are making cider with them as well. HC and Liberty is a good combo too. They are hard to order though as they are in high demand. You might have to order two years out to get what you want. DSCN2124.JPG This is some on M111 or M7.
 
My fields have clover naturally so I can't do anything about it :(. I guess I can spray at the times you mentioned George to try and keep my bee population up. That's a great tip
 
I have a handful of trees in my backyard (.56 acre lot) on G.30 rootstock. So far they are very nice trees, I have a 3rd leaf Zestar! that I expect to see some fruit from this year.
 
I think you may want to take a look at the trees from St. Lawrence Nursery in Potsdam NY. I ordered about 18 trees from them last year and about half were types of trees that were good for both the deer and cider. The annual order form/booklet they send out has descriptions of hundreds of different types of trees that they sell that grow in northern climates. They specifically list what time the trees drop their apples and also which trees are good for cider. All trees from St. Lawrence are grown on standard rootstock, so if I were in your shoes I would order a few from them even though it will take longer to develop fruit and a few from another source to get some apples sooner. Knock on wood I've had 100% survival rate on their trees despite minimal care on the trees grown on my hunting property.

Getting 30 apple trees planted correctly will be a lot of work, but if you have help and a full weekend you should be fine. I also recommend doing as much prep work ahead of time as possible so when the trees arrive you can put them in the ground immediately.
 
Hi Ben, Thanks for your suggestions on mixing root stocks - I will check out St. Lawrence Nursery catalog. I am thinking that mixing the root stock might work best, that way I can see how different varieties do on my farm. Still working out the details, but I'm going to add a couple of HoneyCrisp to my order as Maya suggested.

Thanks again!...;)
 
Ben.MN/WI said:
I think you may want to take a look at the trees from St. Lawrence Nursery in Potsdam NY. I ordered about 18 trees from them last year and about half were types of trees that were good for both the deer and cider. The annual order form/booklet they send out has descriptions of hundreds of different types of trees that they sell that grow in northern climates. They specifically list what time the trees drop their apples and also which trees are good for cider. All trees from St. Lawrence are grown on standard rootstock, so if I were in your shoes I would order a few from them even though it will take longer to develop fruit and a few from another source to get some apples sooner. Knock on wood I've had 100% survival rate on their trees despite minimal care on the trees grown on my hunting property.

Getting 30 apple trees planted correctly will be a lot of work, but if you have help and a full weekend you should be fine. I also recommend doing as much prep work ahead of time as possible so when the trees arrive you can put them in the ground immediately.
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They have one tree called Red June that is supposed to have a prolonged drop time.

Has anyone tried it?
 
sandbur said:
They have one tree called Red June that is supposed to have a prolonged drop time.

Has anyone tried it?
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I have not purchased any Red June trees from SLN, but I have purchased a number of other lesser known trees from them. Now I generally go after trees that have either very early or very late dropping times since I already have a lot of the mid-season apples from prior years plantings. I really like SLN's annual catalog since they have very nice descriptions of lesser known types of apples. None of the trees I've purchased from them have produced apples yet, but the survival rate has been excellent despite minimal care.
 
sandbur said:
I see they have Nova Easy Gro on b118 and also a Red Crab tree.

Do you know anything about the Red crab?

I just put a Nova Easy Gro in the ground-from sln.
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Sandbur, Not sure if you have ShopKo's near you, but the stores in Madison, WI have Red Crabs this year. I normally buy a couple of crabs from Shopko after 4th of July when they are liquidating their remaining inventory. I've had good success with the Robinsons and Profusion crabs I bought from them.
 
2ndHand said:
Sandbur, Not sure if you have ShopKo's near you, but the stores in Madison, WI have Red Crabs this year. I normally buy a couple of crabs from Shopko after 4th of July when they are liquidating their remaining inventory. I've had good success with the Robinsons and Profusion crabs I bought from them.
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We have shopkos, but I seldom visit them. Thanskf for the tip.

I think Walmart and perhaps other stores do not watch hardiness zones, so I do not buy from them.

I would like to know if the Redd crabs are a bird crab or an edible crab.
 
Picked up more supplies for next year's apple planting - bought 40 like new 6 ft. T-post on CL tonight for $2 apiece.
 
Tonight was my first attempt at grafting. I had hoped to do this about a month ago, but I had a shipping mix up that caused a delay in receiving the root stock. Last fall I ordered scions from Fedco that I thought would be good for cider. Here's what I bought: Ashmead's Kernel, Belle de Boskoop, Yarlington Mill, Golden Russet, and Chestnut Crab. I grafted two of each using B.118 root stock. I plan on planting these in 5 gal Root trapper bags after they spend a few weeks resting in the frig.
 
Great apples for cider. Let's see some pics of your grafts. I have all of those as trees or grafts now but can't get my Yarlington to pop. It's the only one that hasn't showed any movement. I am wondering if it was a bad piece of rootstock that I got
 
Yes rootstocks are growing but seems the buds aren't budging at all. Oops I meant to say scion !!!!
 
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