May be what he meant - but not what he said
Thoughts on culling bucks with poor genetic potential.
- Thread starter omicron1792
- Start date
This right here….
You will NEVER alter the genetics in a manageable way without knowing multiple previous generations of both the buck AND the doe’s genetics. Barring a highly controlled selective breeding program, none of us will ever have that situation.
BUT… you DO have limited resources, so why allow a buck that won’t ever reach your desired quality continue to take those resources.
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Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
In multiple buck areas I think there should be a contest. Put in $5 for the annual “ Dinkathon”.
Most pathetic Dink wins.
If u drop a dink u save taxidermy fees!
U can buy more tree cages/tubes!
Most pathetic Dink wins.
If u drop a dink u save taxidermy fees!
U can buy more tree cages/tubes!
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It is not super - but Ok for south AR piney woods. My home ground is 350 acres with about 40 does and normally 18 or so bucks give or take on Sept camera survey. Fawn recruitment averages between .4 and .5 fawns per doe - low of .2 and high of .62. Of the 18 bucks, there will be three to five 4 yr old or older bucks. Our average 4/5 yr old buck is a 120/125” deer. But, we will typically have a couple 135 plus. The biggest buck we have killed is 158 4/8 6.5 yr old. That is a true anomaly for here. Typically, our bucks will score their best at 4.5. Average mature deer across the region will be low 100’s. My place a little better than average. It is common for them to start losing points at 5 yrs, although they may add a little mass. A good buck here will have 28” of mass. I have aged and measured hundreds of them while working ck stations so I feel I have a pretty good knowledge of it. I have seen one buck add a lot of inches between 4.5 and 5.5 - but he was already a giant for here at 4.5. I have never seen a mediocre buck at 3.5 become a good buck at older age - never. My granddaughter this year killed a 6 pt, 92” 5.5 yr old buck. Not uncommon for here. I have had that buck on camera since he was 2.5 and he would never have scored over 100”. 195lbs which is a big bodied deer for here. Only seen four live wt bucks that weighed 200 lbs or more in forty years of weighing them. And I have weighed hundreds of them. No ag. Loblolly commercial pine timber.
killing the odd 90” 3.5 yr old deer every yr or two is not going to have an effect on the herd. I would much rather my grand daughters do that than kill a productive 3.5 yr old doe.
matinc
5 year old buck +
I'm totally impressed with your complete knowledge of your grounds swampcat. I'm jealous of not owning 350 acres like you. I have been watching grant woods talk about prescribed burning in your pines to bring the canopy down are you doing that. How much of your 350 acres is in food plots. Curious do you practice no till and do you have the red clay soil. What is your best food plot in the heat you must face. Sorry to the group for asking such questions but I hope we can learn from you.
I live and have hunted the upper Midwest my entire life, from the “big” woods in the north to southern farmland and I’ve never seen a mature buck (5-6) that WASNT a deer I’d be proud to shoot with a bow or gun.
My brother killed a 6.5 year old 6 pointer a few years ago. I’d shoot that buck every opening morning for the rest of my life!,
So unless your last name is Lakosky or Wenzel, this discussion holds little merit up here. All old bucks are trophy’s to almost everyone…if they get there.
Out of curiosity, I’d like to see a pic of a midwestern 5 year old on poor ground that 95% of us wouldn’t shoot instantly.
Here is the really hard part though. In spite of living in one of the best places in the US for big deer, at least 50% of all hunters here have never had a shot at a 3.5 much less a 5.5…..and never will.
My brother killed a 6.5 year old 6 pointer a few years ago. I’d shoot that buck every opening morning for the rest of my life!,
So unless your last name is Lakosky or Wenzel, this discussion holds little merit up here. All old bucks are trophy’s to almost everyone…if they get there.
Out of curiosity, I’d like to see a pic of a midwestern 5 year old on poor ground that 95% of us wouldn’t shoot instantly.
Here is the really hard part though. In spite of living in one of the best places in the US for big deer, at least 50% of all hunters here have never had a shot at a 3.5 much less a 5.5…..and never will.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Where are you located @matinc ? If you click on your profile you can add it so people can see without asking. Sometimes will get you better info.
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
I think this is where hunters get frustrated.
The need to feel “ proud” of the buck they tag.
If let’s say hunters in an area harvested 1.5 year old “ dinks”. For 4 years only. No other bucks……
What would that area have?
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
There are many hunters who never see a deer. But when you drive out to your stand, are in the same cloths you have had on for 3 days, light up a pack of Camel non filters, are talking on your phone to your buddy about seeing no deer, there you go.
But those are the folks who would need to pass 2.5’s for any culling scheme to ever work on a large scale…..and that ain’t happening on 99.9% of all lands in Wi. APR’s might work, who knows, but that ain’t happening either. I’d vote against it myself.
The bucks that get old are mostly by luck in most areas, IMHO. If you hunt hard in good spots for a lifetime you’ll get big ones. Taking a few small ones along the way was fun too.
That said, if you have a buck that you think is ugly or mean or old, or nocturnal or one that just pisses you off, I 100% support your right to pull that trigger or drop that string!
The bucks that get old are mostly by luck in most areas, IMHO. If you hunt hard in good spots for a lifetime you’ll get big ones. Taking a few small ones along the way was fun too.
That said, if you have a buck that you think is ugly or mean or old, or nocturnal or one that just pisses you off, I 100% support your right to pull that trigger or drop that string!
I think it is mostly predation - coyotes and bobcats. We see lots of twin fawns early july and no twins by late sept. I have trapped hard during spring and got the fawn recruitment as high as .6. Now that I have the doe herd built up, I let the does handle it. A lot of does producing a few fawns works the same as a few does producing a lot of fawns.
I do not have much pine. About half the ground is on a ridge overlooking the bottoms and the other half is bottomland. The upland timbered area is red clay and about 20 acres open blackland prairie calcareous soil. Bottomland is timbered. A few oak - but mostly light seeded hardwood - ash, box elder, hackberry, etc. i have 25 acres of deer plots - 11 plots from .25 acres to 7 acres. Seven acres waterfowl plots. The deer plots are mostly wheat/perennial white clover - mostly durana. The clover is what the deer really hit in the summer. 50/50 chance the clover dries up late Aug/sept.
I do some throw n mow but most planting is with a woods seeder and set the disk gang almost straight and seed wheat directly into any existing clover. If everything has died by fall - I set the disk fairly agressive and replant. The woods seeder is set to only disk a couple inches at most. No spring plantings for deer. I do plant some millet and sunflowers for doves late spring. Also jap millet in summer for ducks
Zone 7.
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Not to derail this post again, but what is the primary prey species for the continued population of coyotes and bobcats? I think you've mentioned before the lack of rabbits and quail. Curious as to what they're eating in sufficient quantities to stay around plus have such an influence on your fawn recruitment.
Young feral pigs
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
How do the pigs taste?
I dont eat them. My wife was a high school science teacher for thirty years and she knows what diseases they carry.
No
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