The Throw n’ Mow Method

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Saw Nixa seed wants $161 dollars shipped for a 50lb bag. might not be a bad deal. Got to see what I have for clover. Might be good for a year or two. Wanted to try SD's method with less aggressive clovers. I mixed ladino, berseem, and medium red together I believe. Think I got 20 or 30lbs or it. Up north I think i only did medium red and ladino.

I might value white dutch in my log landing remediation. When they start making golden rod, i can mow or knock it down and have existing clover growing for the fall. Might be a lazy way to get and extra year or two without any seeding or spraying. Temporary thing, not permanent.

 

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Yeah these are 50%. Coating tag says plant at same rate as non-coated seed. I'm going to try some crimson this year for the first time also.

Crimson is not well foraged and is a very prolific seeder. ME trying it out was adding a soil builder that the deer aren't too interested in. I have sandy soil with low to medium fertility at my place. I can grow ok stuff, but need to put in fertilizer each year. Leaf litter / mulch/ decomposed wood washes down the hills and fills in pockets here n there. Some spots great, some not so. Anywhere dozer work was done is usually almost dead land. The toughest of weeds only grows in those spots. Thats one reason I like plantain up in some spots.

 

[Brian662]

Mustang Seeds out of SD has uncoated 50# bags of crimson and medium red reasonably priced.

I don't know how a seed company can state that coated seed gets planted at the same rates as uncoated, doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[matinc]

Brian your absolutely correct. When they say you need 8 pounds per acre you really need to plant 18 pounds per acre. It's false advertising and I don't understand why they don't tell misinformed customers the truth. Any seed company want to correct me

 

[SD51555]

I don't understand some of the seeding rates. Take red clover for example. There are 190,000 seeds per pound. Let's say you go with the standard 10 lbs/ac no matter your method. That ends up being 44 seeds per square foot. That seems like way too much, unless the germ is only going be 10%.



Here's chicory. 6 lbs/ac ends up being 55 seeds per square foot.

 

[matinc]

SD very interesting. However your stats do not take into consideration 50 percent seed coating and 80 percent germination rates. Also reduced by seeds that don't make it up in the planting process. Based on the rc recommendations you need 26 pounds per acre.

 

[Foggy47]

Mustang Seeds out of SD has uncoated 50# bags of crimson and medium red reasonably priced.

I don't know how a seed company can state that coated seed gets planted at the same rates as uncoated, doesn’t make sense to me.

I think what they "proclaim" to be the advantage of coated seeds is that you get better germination rates....and therefore it may equal uncoated seed germination results. I dunno.....I'm skeptical that is true. I think its the same shrinkage thing that goes on with cereal and snickers bars....they are charging more for less.

Seems that some seed companies are selling more coated seed these days. grrrrrrrr

 

[matinc]

SD I'm sitting here wondering even if all these seeds are broadcasted how many actually survive to maturity 10 percent maybe less 1 percent???? Even when broadcasting in spots I never see ladino seeds ever germinate and become mature. I wish a green cover scientist would comment if their on this site

 

[Brian662]

I think what they "proclaim" to be the advantage of coated seeds is that you get better germination rates....and therefore it may equal uncoated seed germination results. I dunno.....I'm skeptical that is true. I think its the same shrinkage thing that goes on with cereal and snickers bars....they are charging more for less.

Seems that some seed companies are selling more coated seed these days. grrrrrrrr

Germ rates are on the seed tag, I don't buy it for a second that the germ can be ~30-50% better for coated seed.

 

[SD51555]

SD very interesting. However your stats do not take into consideration 50 percent seed coating and 80 percent germination rates. Also reduced by seeds that don't make it up in the planting process. Based on the rc recommendations you need 26 pounds per acre.

I agree completely. I’d even give a 50% germ rate because of hard seed. My red clover stand came thick and I never planted it, ever. That can only mean there was hard seed resisting germination for years and possibly decades.

What’s really strange, in nature there is no tillage. No natural process will put red clover below ground in any substantial amount. I tilled my ground and had to have buried most of the hard seed laying on the surface. I still got a solid stand. There must have been some organic acid change from the spraying, death, lime, and tillage that just called it all to germinate.

The germ rate is either terrible for some reason, or red clover just thins itself before we ever notice it was too thick.


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[Catscratch]

A lot of those coatings on clovers are to protect pre-inoculated rhizomes, and to make other seed more uniform for more consistent mechanical plantings. Since inoculation doesn't help with germination rates and I feel only a buried seed might benefit from a coating I see no need for it with TnM. I personally suspect since we buy seed by the pound that the coatings are mostly there to make 10lbs of seed weigh 15lbs at checkout.

 

[Foggy47]

A lot of those coatings on clovers are to protect pre-inoculated rhizomes, and to make other seed more uniform for more consistent mechanical plantings. Since inoculation doesn't help with germination rates and I feel only a buried seed might benefit from a coating I see no need for it with TnM. I personally suspect since we buy seed by the pound that the coatings are mostly there to make 10lbs of seed weigh 15lbs at checkout.

It does look pretty. lol...... and easier for the turkeys to find it.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

It does look pretty. lol...... and easier for the turkeys to find it.

Our turkeys find the un-coated buckwheat we plant - and we cultipack it in. Soil coverage doesn't even work.

I was told by seed vendors, and I've read in articles, that inoculant on clover seed was to put a dusty coating of necessary fungi on the seed to help with germination. I once got bagged inoculant from a local seed vendor and it looked like black flour. The vendor told me to add it to the clover seed in a big plastic bag and then roll it around so the seed got coated. Our clover seemed to do well. Can anyone elaborate on inoculant - not "coatings"?

 

[Catscratch]

Our turkeys find the un-coated buckwheat we plant - and we cultipack it in. Soil coverage doesn't even work.

I was told by seed vendors, and I've read in articles, that inoculant on clover seed was to put a dusty coating of necessary fungi on the seed to help with germination. I once got bagged inoculant from a local seed vendor and it looked like black flour. The vendor told me to add it to the clover seed in a big plastic bag and then roll it around so the seed got coated. Our clover seemed to do well. Can anyone elaborate on inoculant - not "coatings"?

The bacteria helps the plant convert gaseous nitrogen into a form the plant can use. It helps put nitrogen nodes in the roots, which helps the plant grow stronger and healthier. This puts nitrogen into the soil for the next crops. It's not a part of the germination process.

 

[BenA]

From what I understand, from coatings put on clover and alfalfa, is the coatings are a mixture of different things depending on the treatment. Depending on the coating they can contain different things such as rhizobium, fungicide, micronutrients, water absorbers, root stimulants, etc so as to aid in establishment, not just germination. So, it seems they could hedge your bets if conditions don't cooperate. I saw where seed with the same germination rates were tested with and without coatings. The coated ones established more plants even though the germination rates were the same. I guess it depends on the company supplying the seed and what their coating is.

Here's a link from UKY on coated seeds: https://grazer.ca.uky.edu/value-coated-seed

 

[omicron1792]

I’ve always had better results from coated seeds.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I guess I could test coated vs. un-coated in the same plot to see what shakes out. I have no idea what's in those coatings.

 

[Catscratch]

I guess I could test coated vs. un-coated in the same plot to see what shakes out. I have no idea what's in those coatings.

I'd love to see the results of that test in a TnM plot. You'd have to do a rag test first to make sure both the uncoated and coated seed had the same germ rates. Would be cool to see the outcome of a real world scenario.

 

[bigboreblr]

Not sure I would buy 10% make it, but could see 15-20% make it. Seen it many times with my own eyes, birds eat some, very young shoots get eaten, even with a drill some get planted too deep, and probably a good portion is hard seed, despite the advertised germination rates. Those rates are under ideal conditions. Seeds dont get wet enough for enough time won't germinate.

For a good stand even with tillage, weed control, and stirring in the seeds lightly, I think I needed about 20lbs to make a clover plot look good. OF course, does a 1st year clover plot supposed to look good the 1st year.

Every winter I spread clover seed, but realy wonder how many make it to adulthood. Almost think it's single digits sometimes.

Early growth browse can really be underestimated in some plants.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Early growth browse can really be underestimated in some plants.

Yep. No way to know for sure how many get eaten at 1 1/2" tall.