The Throw n’ Mow Method

[Native Hunter]

I'm going to ask this question based on my experience with rag-doll tests.
Do you think, with adequate moisture, that even small seeded forages can overcome not having true soil contact?
I ask that because I've done germ tests on seeds that were left in the baggie for extended periods of time... To the point that tiny leaves were forming and even roots were starting to grow into the paper towels.
If seeds can develop to that extent in wet paper towels in a baggie, why wouldn't they grow down through dead grass stools??...given they have continuous moisture of course. I'm thinking that TnM is better suited to wet, weather conditions.

It is better in wet conditions. But there is a big difference between "germination" and "establishment." Many times we hear people on the forums talking about rye germinating in the bed of a pickup truck, but we don't hear them say that it penetrates the bed of the truck and reaches the ground.

Now, of course what I said above about the pickup truck is ridiculous, but big grass stools are hard to penetrate. Even if you laid your paper towels on top of the ground, many of the germinated seed would not penetrate the towels before they died, under a lot of circumstances. The type of seed matter too. Buckwheat, wheat and rye are at the top of the list, but clover and many other species won't be able to do much penetrating.

Big grass stools made by grasses like Orchard Grass, Fescue or even many NWSGs are tough to impossible to penetrate for a germinating seed. Your point about continuous moisture is a factor too. Lots of times the seed won't have that before they can get established.

 

[SwampCat]

One of the things that I always worry about is germinating seed and then a lengthy spell of hot weather. I would rather the seed not germinate at all.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

One of the things that I always worry about is germinating seed and then a lengthy spell of hot weather. I would rather the seed not germinate at all.

T&M actually requires a bigger rain event to get the process started than what traditional tillage does. The reason why is because the thatch itself soaks up so much moisture before the soil ever starts getting any. A 1/4 inch rainfall in most situations will just wet the thatch. A lot of it also depends on how much moisture you're planting into. I've planted my fall plots in years past when my soil was already good and moist and had the field start sprouting and growing before it ever got any rain.

I’ll add this too…..I’ve yet to have a failing on a fall plot of cereal rye now in 6 years I think it is…….I’ve planted as early mid Sept and as late as Thanksgiving. Any time someone is wanting to switch to this method I think it would be a good idea to start with a fall planting of a cereal rye mix.

 

[SwampCat]

T&M actually requires a bigger rain event to get the process started than what traditional tillage does. The reason why is because the thatch itself soaks up so much moisture before the soil ever starts getting any. A 1/4 inch rainfall in most situations will just wet the thatch. A lot of it also depends on how much moisture you're planting into. I've planted my fall plots in years past when my soil was already good and moist and had the field start sprouting and growing before it ever got any rain.

I’ll add this too…..I’ve yet to have a failing on a fall plot of cereal rye now in 6 years I think it is…….I’ve planted as early mid Sept and as late as Thanksgiving. Any time someone is wanting to switch to this method I think it would be a good idea to start with a fall planting of a cereal rye mix.

I agree 100% with starting with fall cereal grains. They are ALMOST failsafe. Our farmers here aerial seed wheat into fields after soybean harvest. It often lays there a month or more on top of the ground before conditions are right for it to germinate - and these guys are doing it commercially - they couldnt afford to do it if the failure rate was significant at all.

Personally, I wont try tnm where timing of the planting is important, when it is an expensive seeding project, or where it may be a somewhat difficult seeding to establish, or I have very limited ground to plant. With my limited experience, I throw and mow where a failure wont hurt - either my management plan or pocket book.

 

[35-acre]

It's been 3 weeks since I planted the middle of my field. That section I sprayed 2 gallons of water and gly mix. What a HUGE difference from the top section due to the spray! While the top is coming in (turnips & rape and Egyptian Wheat) there is still a ton of natural growth competing with what I planted.

The middle section has really come on strong! The spray killed off the competitors and the seed is doing well. Check out that photo! Sweet. That entire section looks like that.

LESSON LEARNED: You need to spray (or mow (duh - it's in the name)).

Today I planted the bottom section of the field with diakon radishes along with a grains mix (I also spread the grain on the whole field). In the bottom section, I dropped in 150 lbs of lime, 50 lbs of 10-10-10, I seeded, then sprayed and then knocked down everything with my drag harrow. I finished off by just running the whole section over with my ATV. A huge factor is seed to soil contact and I've found without finishing this way, the seed is less likely to take. Adding a photo of the bottom as I was knocking it down to show the amount of competition from the native grasses.

LESSON#2 LEARNED: Next year I will only knock the field down in sections mid-year. This year I did the whole thing and I'm thinking that the animals like the cover and wheat/clover from early this year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[35-acre]

So the animals are loving what I'm doing with the place! This is the bottom section of my field, where I had just planted diakon radish 3 weeks ago. The deer are hammering it. This is the BEST photo that I have ever gotten on my property!!!


I can see the difference between where I've sprayed and where I didn't. The top section of my field (on the right) is almost a complete bust. The left side of this photo is where I used a mix of gly and a 2 gallons sprayer. I only put 2 gallons down and it worked 100% better than just knocking down the existing growth. This below pic is the middle section of my field (pinch point), and was planted in rape and purple top turnips.



I planted clover throughout the entire field and fertilized the field.
BUT the lady at the seed store sold me horse oats. It wasn't until I was all done that I realized this was feed. Has anyone tried this before? DO you think it will grow anything?

 

[Tap]

So the animals are loving what I'm doing with the place! This is the bottom section of my field, where I had just planted diakon radish 3 weeks ago. The deer are hammering it. This is the BEST photo that I have ever gotten on my property!!!
View attachment 20213

I can see the difference between where I've sprayed and where I didn't. The top section of my field (on the right) is almost a complete bust. The left side of this photo is where I used a mix of gly and a 2 gallons sprayer. I only put 2 gallons down and it worked 100% better than just knocking down the existing growth. This below pic is the middle section of my field (pinch point), and was planted in rape and purple top turnips.

View attachment 20214

I planted clover throughout the entire field and fertilized the field.
BUT the lady at the seed store sold me horse oats. It wasn't until I was all done that I realized this was feed. Has anyone tried this before? DO you think it will grow anything?View attachment 20215

Do a rag doll test on the oat seed (germination test...seeds in a wet paper towel in a zip lock). Oats will germinate in 3 or 4 days...maybe 2 days.
I assume they will grow, but they are VNS...variety not specified.
They won't be certified either, so there is no guarantee on how much weed seed is mixed in.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Rit]

I love it when a plan comes together. 2nd year TNM at 2 weeks old.

 

[Rit]

A

So the animals are loving what I'm doing with the place! This is the bottom section of my field, where I had just planted diakon radish 3 weeks ago. The deer are hammering it. This is the BEST photo that I have ever gotten on my property!!!
View attachment 20213

I can see the difference between where I've sprayed and where I didn't. The top section of my field (on the right) is almost a complete bust. The left side of this photo is where I used a mix of gly and a 2 gallons sprayer. I only put 2 gallons down and it worked 100% better than just knocking down the existing growth. This below pic is the middle section of my field (pinch point), and was planted in rape and purple top turnips.

View attachment 20214

I planted clover throughout the entire field and fertilized the field.
BUT the lady at the seed store sold me horse oats. It wasn't until I was all done that I realized this was feed. Has anyone tried this before? DO you think it will grow anything?View attachment 20215

you can plant whole oats and they will grow just fine. I have planted them a few times with TNM at $8.50 per 50lbs it’s quite cheap.

 

[Rit]

Anyone have experience with switchgrass in the spring on a throw n mow? Planning to put a stand in next spring and wondered how you guys have done w/ that.

I think if you try this you are going to be extremely disappointed. Switch (I assume you plan on planting CIR) seed needs cold stratification to germinate. Depending on when you plant in the spring you may not get that. Also the seed won’t germinate until the soil warms up. You would be far better off to prep the area this fall by killing off everything and frost seeding in January/February.

None of it will matter without excellent weed control. You need to spray more than glyphosate. I had a failed planting this year even while using Atrizine. I didn’t know at the time that using the recommended amount wouldn’t yield results. I am going to try to save the planting once it goes dormant with a heavy dose of Simizine and Oust XP.

 

[tbarile]

View attachment 20256View attachment 20257View attachment 20258
I love it when a plan comes together. 2nd year TNM at 2 weeks old.

Looks perfect. Please give details of what you did.

 

[hilltopper]

Has anyone had success with TnM Alfalfa using WR as a cover like you would establish a clover plot. Just looking to add to diversity. I have a strip that is 10 Yards wide by 600’ that would be perfect for a strip of something.

The field already has an acre of clover. Just looking to add a little something else to the pie.

I don’t think anybody addressed his specific question about establishing alfalfa with TNM. Anyone?

 

[roymunson]

I think if you try this you are going to be extremely disappointed. Switch (I assume you plan on planting CIR) seed needs cold stratification to germinate. Depending on when you plant in the spring you may not get that. Also the seed won’t germinate until the soil warms up. You would be far better off to prep the area this fall by killing off everything and frost seeding in January/February.

None of it will matter without excellent weed control. You need to spray more than glyphosate. I had a failed planting this year even while using Atrizine. I didn’t know at the time that using the recommended amount wouldn’t yield results. I am going to try to save the planting once it goes dormant with a heavy dose of Simizine and Oust XP.

The plan was to till, just checking my options.

Checked my 2 week old WINA Fusion plot yesterday. I've got clover and chicory coming along nicely

 

[Rit]

The plan was to till, just checking my options.

Checked my 2 week old WINA Fusion plot yesterday. I've got clover and chicory coming along nicely

Tilling or TNM I think the timing of your planting is what is going to cause you issues. Those switch seeds need to be exposed to the wet chill to germinate. Tilling is only going to bring more weed seeds to the surface. If you have the time I would go find Paul’s switchgrass thread on the Iowa Whitletail Forums. It’s a great read and a wealth of info.

 

[Rit]

x2 post

 

[Rit]

I don’t think anybody addressed his specific question about establishing alfalfa with TNM. Anyone?

I did a 1/4 acre strip so we will find out. There wasn’t as much thatch as I would have liked but it will give me some input. I used WR as a cover also.

 

[scott44]

Last Thurs. I planted my LC cereal grain mix TnM, I broadcast the seed and mowed thurs and sprayed on fri. This year I planted most of my plots TnM/roll the only thing I didn't was my sorghum mix because there wasn't much thatch so I lightly disced.

 

[Rit]

Looks perfect. Please give details of what you did.

I didn’t do anything with the area all spring or summer other than monitor progress. I used TNM last year in the same spot mostly into 4’ weeds and volunteer radishes.

This year it was 5’ WR that went to seed, dormant clover and a few weeds in spots where the WR wasn’t very thick.

I used a 3 point spreader with a 500lb hopper to broadcast WR into the standing WR and then hand broadcast the clover and radish into the same area. I used about 80 lbs/acre of WR 3 lbs/acre radish and 3 lbs/ acre of clover.

Next I broadcast 100 lbs of 6-24-24 per acre over the area. Then I used my land pride rotary cutter to mow it all down.

Due to the amount of green plant matter after mowing 4 days later I sprayed the entire area with 2 ounces of glyphosate per gallon of water, 4 lbs of Amonium Sulfate and a dab of crop oil. Most everything died except the a few small spots that I missed. Some of the previously seeded clover is still alive.

 

[Tap]

Last Thurs. I planted my LC cereal grain mix TnM, I broadcast the seed and mowed thurs and sprayed on fri. This year I planted most of my plots TnM/roll the only thing I didn't was my sorghum mix because there wasn't much thatch so I lightly disced.

I'm curious why you mowed the day before spraying.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Rit]

I'm curious why you mowed the day before spraying.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I also mowed then sprayed. The existing crop was too tall and was breaking my booms away when I was trying to spray. Plus I didn’t think I would get a good kill with the tall vegetation.