I tried my first attempt at the throw n roll method. I had already disc’d .5 acres so I did that next to this 1/4 acre spot. I broadcast turnips, sprayed gly, and rolled. I barely have anything growing so not sure where I went wrong. Not enough thatch? Here is the difference between the 2 plots
The Throw n’ Mow Method
- Thread starter Crimson n' Camo
- Start date
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Could be lack of thatch but i'm guessing it's from lack of moisture.
There was a heavy downpour the day after I planted and we've had good rain since so I don't think it's a moisture issue.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
How long since you planted? My experience with it is that it takes longer than traditional tillage but by the time ist's done growing you wont notice a difference. Hopefully you will have the same experience.
My TNM looks like crap. I didn't have near as much thatch as I would have liked and we have had next to no rain.
My TNM looks like crap. I didn't have near as much thatch as I would have liked and we have had next to no rain.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
Depends if you want to till it up or not. If not Winter Wheat and clover/chicory.
If you are going to till it up Peas, sunflowers, oats, and winter wheat with maybe some DER and Radish.
If you are going to till it up Peas, sunflowers, oats, and winter wheat with maybe some DER and Radish.
Throw and mow isnt the magic bullet. I have little experience - using it for the first time ever, last fall. That plot did just ok - but for the lack of time spent - I wouldnt call it a bust. Didnt do as good as my conventional plots - but good enough. A month ago, I planted four acres of golden millet conventional and two acres golden millet throw and mow - four hundred yards apart. Same rain on each one - a couple of one inch rains in the first two weeks and then nothing since. The conventional plot is a foot deep in millet. I am not sure any millet has come up in the throw n mow. In fact - the conventional plot did so great the army worms decided to take it down last week - so, as it ended up - both may be a bust. But, at least I had less time and and expense into the throw n mow.
I wouldnt dare yet use throw n mow where I just absolutely had to have success. With my inexperience, I only use it where I can withstand a failure - but maybe one day.
I wouldnt dare yet use throw n mow where I just absolutely had to have success. With my inexperience, I only use it where I can withstand a failure - but maybe one day.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
that's a bummer. I had substantially less thatch on mine, and it came up nicely. (peas, radishes, wheat, w/ some brassicas oveseeded)
We had some timely rain, but I made the mistake of not committing to the T&M and mowed about 2 weeks before I first sprayed. So I didn't have a lot of thatch left and a lot of soil was exposed.
Kinda neat to see the peas sprout and arc their roots down tho.
scott44
5 year old buck +
I've had good luck prepping/spraying everything with gly the summer/fall before and frost seeding early the next spring.
35-acre
5 year old buck +
Well the difference between no spray and spray has really separated. I don't use much gly but from what I've done, I wont go without it. So the top section of my field is a bust.It's been 3 weeks since I planted the middle of my field. That section I sprayed 2 gallons of water and gly mix. What a HUGE difference from the top section due to the spray! While the top is coming in (turnips & rape and Egyptian Wheat) there is still a ton of natural growth competing with what I planted.
The middle section has really come on strong! The spray killed off the competitors and the seed is doing well. Check out that photo! Sweet. That entire section looks like that.
LESSON LEARNED: You need to spray (or mow (duh - it's in the name)).
Today I planted the bottom section of the field with diakon radishes along with a grains mix (I also spread the grain on the whole field). In the bottom section, I dropped in 150 lbs of lime, 50 lbs of 10-10-10, I seeded, then sprayed and then knocked down everything with my drag harrow. I finished off by just running the whole section over with my ATV. A huge factor is seed to soil contact and I've found without finishing this way, the seed is less likely to take. Adding a photo of the bottom as I was knocking it down to show the amount of competition from the native grasses.
LESSON#2 LEARNED: Next year I will only knock the field down in sections mid-year. This year I did the whole thing and I'm thinking that the animals like the cover and wheat/clover from early this year.
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The deer are really enjoying the improvements. I have never had this kind of traffic! The photos with all the deer is the diakon radish section.
So my middle and bottom section are doing awesome! I hit it with 12-12-12 today and threw some different clovers for spring.
Then, I need some thoughts on this last one... at the seed store, I bought horse oats. I didn't realize it was feed until I got it all spread. Any thoughts? Will it grow?
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mikmaze
5 year old buck +
I keep coming back to this thread wondering how I could ever see dirt for seed to land on if I didn't ill. I must have some special weeds , thick and stubborn, unreal the way it builds up even after just one year. I would have to buy barrels of gly, and or get my pto fixed and get to using the brush hog.
Crimson n' Camo
5 year old buck +
That's really odd to have a complete failure like that....especially with something as small seeded and easy to grow as millet. If I had to guess what went wrong I'd probably say that the thatch was too thick for such a small seed. Things like peas and winter rye can tolerate a really heavy thatch put down over them and do great. Really small seeded stuff like clovers for example, can't be covered over too much....just like burying them too deep in conventional plantings. It's till really odd that nothing came up. I just spread some millet straight on top of the ground over some bulldozer work for erosion control and it came up thick.
Tap
5 year old buck +
Like a lot of guys on here, I'm fairly new to TnM. I guess I've been doing it, at one level or another, for 3 years?? My impression is that development from TnM is much slower than when planted with traditional tilling methods.
I think most of that has to do with seed to soil contact.
Tillage allows immediate soil contact.
TnM and rolling/cultipacking helps the soil contact and speeds up the process a bit.
TnM without rolling mostly depends on tractor wheels and Mother Nature to ensure soil contact.
Add into the mix, thatch thickness, rain fall and soil type and TnM really needs to be applied to individual situations.
And I'll bet, differences of the species of thatch will have an effect on the speed or success of TnM. Rye, has allopathic properties...there is no reason to believe that many weeds have that same trait.
Every part of Black Walnut secretes juglone which inhibits the growth of a lot of stuff. Even the walnut leaves that blow out onto plots leave a certain amount of juglone in the soil as they rot.
My take on TnM... Taylor it to the specifics of each individual plot, and plant earlier than you normally would when tilling is used. And be patient.
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
I think I can see what happened to Swamp Cat's plot. He got an excellent kill, but I see lots of dead grass stools. Even though he mowed and covered the seed well, he didn't get good seed to soil contact due to the dead grass stool barrier. When I first started experimenting with this, I saw the same thing. Even this year I put in a new plot that had heavy grass, and based on my past experience, I decided to lightly cut the sod with a disk on that plot for this first year. Next year I won't need to do that.
Below is a spray - throw - mow plot that is 12 days old that I put in recently. Grass stools were non-existent in this plot, so it was a perfect candidate for this method. The first time this plot was put in 3 years ago, I did have to disk it, but not this time.
Note the difference in my dead thatch. Not very many grass stools. The seed to soil contact was good. And I mowed with a walk behind DR, so the tires eat into the soil a little too.
Below is a spray - throw - mow plot that is 12 days old that I put in recently. Grass stools were non-existent in this plot, so it was a perfect candidate for this method. The first time this plot was put in 3 years ago, I did have to disk it, but not this time.
Note the difference in my dead thatch. Not very many grass stools. The seed to soil contact was good. And I mowed with a walk behind DR, so the tires eat into the soil a little too.
Tap
5 year old buck +
I'm going to ask this question based on my experience with rag-doll tests.I think I can see what happened to Swamp Cat's plot. He got an excellent kill, but I see lots of dead grass stools. Even though he mowed and covered the seed well, he didn't get good seed to soil contact due to the dead grass stool barrier. When I first started experimenting with this, I saw the same thing. Even this year I put in a new plot that had heavy grass, and based on my past experience, I decided to lightly cut the sod with a disk on that plot for this first year. Next year I won't need to do that.
Below is a spray - throw - mow plot that is 12 days old that I put in recently. Grass stools were non-existent in this plot, so it was a perfect candidate for this method. The first time this plot was put in 3 years ago, I did have to disk it, but not this time.
Note the difference in my dead thatch. Not very many grass stools. The seed to soil contact was good. And I mowed with a walk behind DR, so the tires eat into the soil a little too.
Do you think, with adequate moisture, that even small seeded forages can overcome not having true soil contact?
I ask that because I've done germ tests on seeds that were left in the baggie for extended periods of time... To the point that tiny leaves were forming and even roots were starting to grow into the paper towels.
If seeds can develop to that extent in wet paper towels in a baggie, why wouldn't they grow down through dead grass stools??...given they have continuous moisture of course. I'm thinking that TnM is better suited to wet, weather conditions.
I planted some wr, ww, and ladino last fall in a tnm and the wr and ww did ok - but no ladino was evident. This year, the millet planting was my first attempt. Millet is a very time sensitive planting when used for either dove or duck hunting. If you plant too early - every songbird in the country will clean you out. If you wait too long or it takes two extra weeks to germinate, you miss opening weekend of dove season or the frost gets it. When I really need a planting to work, or a planting is really time sensitive - tnm would not be my choice of planting method.
