S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
The thatch will break down and turn into soil.
The Throw n’ Mow Method
- Thread starter Crimson n' Camo
- Start date
Livesintrees
5 year old buck +
I would imagine you can either till. Or mow it and use a York rake to get some outta there. Or easier yet burn it. That’s my thinking after reading all these topics about it.
35-acre
5 year old buck +
I read this thread through entirely a couple years ago and follow it regularly. I would say no. I haven't seen anyone talk about tilling things after years. The goal of this is to use the OM (thatch) to hold moisture and nutrients. The crops grow down into the soil below. The OM/thatch lets you get the seed started without having to till and drill. Someone else with more information might be able to explain more. There is a great youtube video link on this thread somewhere that shows how farmers use this on a much larger scale.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I have plots that have never been tilled and I have been doing throw n mow for many years. Thatch is your friend, and (in my case anyway) decomposes fairly quickly... making the best part of your soil.
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Goldentriangle
A good 3 year old buck
I'm not sure if it is the beginning of this thread but Crimson's picture of his soil says it all. You should never have to remove any thatch. That will be your new top layer of soil. In the picture you can see how Crimson's soil has turned from nearly pure sand, into a nice rich looking topsoil. Amazing how several years of thatch has totally changed the soil structure.
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SD51555
5 year old buck +
If your residue is compounding over multiple years, you have a biological problem. Too much thatch means too much carbon. Stop growing high carbon crops for part or all of a year, and the soil will catch up. A functioning system will produce a lot of biomass, and then break it down, and repeat. Whether you do it in a mix or alternate, pay attention to it. If you go too far off either end, you'll get the appropriate weeds to correct your mistake.
This is why there is clover in your grass at home, grass in your clover at the cabin.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcseprd331820.pdf
This is why there is clover in your grass at home, grass in your clover at the cabin.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcseprd331820.pdf
eclipseman
5 year old buck +
ah ok. So it really depends what you are growing. I like to grow brassica, cereal rye/oats each year (and maybe buckwheat over summer periods). How should I go about doing this? I am in NY as an FYI.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Great looking stand ks!
ksgobbler
5 year old buck +
Thanks. That’s the back side of the pond dam. Wanted quail to be able to get it without being buffeted by a strong North wind so they are protected. Face of the dam has a nice stand of buckwheat that all I did was broadcast it. Other back half of the pond dam is brown top millet. I’ve also got jap Millet and browntop plots scattered about. I thought about a thread in the general area detailing my quail habitat improvements.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
SD51555
5 year old buck +
You should be fine doing that as is. I'd double check your soil pH in case you are getting buildup. Your earthworm population will explode if your pH is right, and then you'll be fine. Just make sure you get your next seed down on the ground before you knock down whatever came before it. It'll help your germination vs hindering by seeding after you've knocked it down.
35-acre
5 year old buck +
Eclipseman,
I'm in NY as well. My property is in the southern tier. I basically grow the same plantings. I will say that the seeding rate is typically a little higher. I'm in my third year. I had a section of hardwoods created into a field in the spring of 2015. Initially that means it wasn't throw and mow. A dozer had just been in and they cleared as much tree and roots while trying to leave soil. The first year went well.
The second year (2016) even though I dumped in a few hundred dollars in seed, nothing came up besides native plants (grasses, weeds and briars - the last tried). I was left with a lot of rocks and bare ground. In one of these photos you'll see I used a harrow rake and dragged the field in August. In September you can see about a month later things were not building up a thatch and nothing was really coming up (that's the photo with my black dog in it). Throughout the fall, I ended up with NOTHING. But the soil was bad and my plantings didn't take.
In 2017, I read about a different way to put in a field. It was about spraying the existing stuff and then planting into it about 4 weeks later. This was throw and mow but and got me started in that direction. You can see the field was sprayed in 1 photo - very obvious. I did that in May and planted some buckwheat. The buckwheat photo is pretty obvious and was taken 6 weeks after planting but I still had yet to do a soil test. I tried to plant some brassica and winter wheat but that failed. Probably due to the acidic nature of my soil. Deer were still in the field hitting based on some rye grass that came up. I grabbed soil at the end of the season and had it tested. I needed to add about 1500lbs of lime.
In 2018 (this past April), I put down about 450lbs of lime. And guess what? All of that winter wheat came up! That photo was taken in June. So basically all I can infer is that this was more or less a delayed "frost seed". I got lucky, but the seed that didn't come up in the fall of 2017, came up in 2018. This year, I have planted some clover in certain areas that were thin earlier this year. It's coming in but not growing tot he height I would like to see (it's Aliske Clover and likes wet ground and we've been in a bit of a drought as you know). I also knocked down the winter wheat and planted some buckwheat in strips mid-June. At that time, I added some fertilizer (17-17-17) and I have also had planted some egyptian wheat grass but I don't think that came up. I was doing that in certain areas of the field to create some screening cover. On the 29th of June, I planted 1 section of the field in Tall Tine Tubers (turnips) and had added another 220lbs of lime. I picked up a soil test kit from the Cornell Extension and my soil is still acidic. This doesn't surprise me as I have only out down about 1/3 of what was stated in the initial test. I'm hoping that will still take. Later in July, I plan to plant the rest of the field in Brassica and Turnip while laying down more fertilizer. I also plan to drop in another 450lbs of lime in July or August. In September, I plant to throw (literally by hand) rye or winter wheat into the plantings.
When looking at my photos you can really see a change in what it's capable of by improving the soil. I've opted for thrown and mow because of the tools that I have and the location of the field. I think you can see for yourself that it works. No tiller is needed.
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John-W-WI
Administrator
Do you always start brassicas this early? I've been moving the date up over the last few years but I'm only back to early/mid august. They must do OK planted in July with enough moisture?
Thanks,
-John
scott44
5 year old buck +
I usually shoot for the July 1-15 whenever there is a good chance for rain, we were supposed to be getting rain the day after I planted them but it didn't happen so I think they'll just lay there for a week or two until the next rain. I have had some of the brassicas bolt but not too bad. Really dry here in MI corn is all curled and people who got their beans in later the bean look bad.
John-W-WI
Administrator
Sounds good. We are looking dry for the next week or so. So I still have time, but I will plant earlier this year than previous years. Thanks for the tip!
-John
Like others have said, this year’s thatch becomes next year’s topsoil. Fungi, earthworms, and other soil organisms eat it and convert it back into something your plants can use, all the while improving water infiltration into the soil and reducing erosion.
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