The Throw n’ Mow Method

[woodyjeremiah]

Not sure where you are but vetch is about played out in ky. I checked my plot yesterday. It’s getting stemy. One thing I have found with vetch is to mow late in the summer. It’s cleans up the warm season weeds and allows the vetch to have some uncompeted growth. I also spray mine with cleth and 2-4db at least once in the summer but mine is a pure stand of vetch. Not sure how 2-4db will do on alyce clover? It’s a reseeding annual so as long as you don’t nuke it for a fall crop you should get another year out of it. Granted it will help if you clean up the plot in the spring with some herbicide to help it get going with competition.

Yeah I would’ve liked to get down to check on it but never had a chance. No herbicide this fall just mowed it all back. Plan is to put a bunch of rye down and use cleth and imox before the spring planting next year.


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[PatinPA]

Stopped by my place for some last minute, check cameras, shoot bow, look at food plots. I broadcast rye/wheat a couple weeks ago. I was really disappointed in the germination and growth. We've had plenty of moisture, warm but not too hot days. I was expecting a lot more.

 

[jsasker007]

Stopped by my place for some last minute, check cameras, shoot bow, look at food plots. I broadcast rye/wheat a couple weeks ago. I was really disappointed in the germination and growth. We've had plenty of moisture, warm but not too hot days. I was expecting a lot more.

Did you throw and mow or just throw? If I don't do some light discing or mow after broadcasting a lot of my seed gets eaten by birds if the seed is visible. Much better success when the seed is hidden.

 

[PatinPA]

Did you throw and mow or just throw? If I don't do some light discing or mow after broadcasting a lot of my seed gets eaten by birds if the seed is visible. Much better success when the seed is hidden.

Just threw. Which typically works fine for me, especially with Rye.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

Here's one for the experts. I want to put in a little clover/chicory/DER plot on a permission piece. I want to put it in a fallow beef pasture, heavy, somewhat wet clay soil.
I have permission to try the plot.
I cannot spray.
I don't want to till.
I have a tractor and brush-hog, a DR walk-behind brush-hog, a 4 wheeler and chain/drag harrows, a lawn roller.
I'm concerned with the grass competition. This is part of a 30+ acre pasture where I don't dare burn.
Thoughts?

 

[omicron1792]

Here's one for the experts. I want to put in a little clover/chicory/DER plot on a permission piece. I want to put it in a fallow beef pasture, heavy, somewhat wet clay soil.
I have permission to try the plot.
I cannot spray.
I don't want to till.
I have a tractor and brush-hog, a DR walk-behind brush-hog, a 4 wheeler and chain/drag harrows, a lawn roller.
I'm concerned with the grass competition. This is part of a 30+ acre pasture where I don't dare burn.
Thoughts?

Check out @Native Hunter posts on his lawnmower plot.

 

[Catscratch]

Google "interseeding pasture" and you'll come up with techniques used by cattle guys. In your case I'd say regular mowing for a while, broadcast, mow over the broadcasted seed, then role it. Do this in summer when the grass is weak.

Interseeding Legumes Into Existing Pasture

By interseeding legumes into an existing pasture, you are increasing the amount of available nitrogen in your pasture system. This means less fertilizer has to be utilized each year, and pasture quality and yield increases.

extension.usu.edu

 

[Stubborn1VT]

Google "interseeding pasture" and you'll come up with techniques used by cattle guys. In your case I'd say regular mowing for a while, broadcast, mow over the broadcasted seed, then role it. Do this in summer when the grass is weak.

Interseeding Legumes Into Existing Pasture

By interseeding legumes into an existing pasture, you are increasing the amount of available nitrogen in your pasture system. This means less fertilizer has to be utilized each year, and pasture quality and yield increases.

extension.usu.edu

This was my plan. Frost seed, add pelletized lime, mow. Come back early summer, broadcast more seed, mow, possibly roll, etc.

 

[Catscratch]

I put seed in pasture often. I loke to broadcast it then feed there a few days in a row. The cattle will plant it for you, and temporarily remove competition. Doesn't sound like you will have access to a herd though.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

I put seed in pasture often. I loke to broadcast it then feed there a few days in a row. The cattle will plant it for you, and temporarily remove competition. Doesn't sound like you will have access to a herd though.

This is a pasture that hasn't had cattle in it for 3 years. The beef operation left town and they aren't coming back...

 

[bigboreblr]

No spraying, or no spraying "nasty" chemicals. Could try spraying vinegar right before a prospective heatwave. Whats DER?

They acitvely haying the field? Look up clovers and make a blend. Youre going to need a bit faster growing clover than perennial, but still put perennials in there too. Medium red, Berseem, and Balsana. Berseem or Balsana might not frost seed well. Berseem is the wow in imperial clover blend. Dutch white is great, but agressive, which is maybe what you need anyways.

You're likely dealing with a significant thatch layer and significant seed bank. IS haying before seeding an option here? You might got enough thatch already in the field to not bother with adding more to it.

I'd hay, then spread seed, then run that drag harrowwith the teetch pointing back, then pack it down, then roll it in The harrows does 3 things. Flufs up the thatch, damages the existing plants, and stirs the seed with the sol a bit. Likely a double pass. If haying is not an otpion. Mow in july twice, then mow again early august, then seed harrow, and roll in.

Also, you can fill your lawn roller with sand for a better effect. Tractor tires work doo too. Do a tire width over at a time until you got all the space between the tire from the 2st pass. Then move over a tractor width and do again. I do that wth my ATV too, but fill up the tires to about 10 psi instead of the usual 4-5.

Try the frost seeding method, but don;t do a big spot, like a 1/8 or 1/4 acre. 2 or 3 passes at the edge of a field where you hunt. Mark where you did it well.

Clover blend for me. LAdino, medium red, balsana, berseem. I avoid dutch white, birdsfoot trefoil, and really don't mess with afalfa anymore either. But, I spray gly. You mght need the dutch. I buy these in bulk bags and mix them together. I also buy locally sourced clover blends and them to it too.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

No spraying, or no spraying "nasty" chemicals. Could try spraying vinegar right before a prospective heatwave. Whats DER?

They acitvely haying the field? Look up clovers and make a blend. Youre going to need a bit faster growing clover than perennial, but still put perennials in there too. Medium red, Berseem, and Balsana. Berseem or Balsana might not frost seed well. Berseem is the wow in imperial clover blend. Dutch white is great, but agressive, which is maybe what you need anyways.

You're likely dealing with a significant thatch layer and significant seed bank. IS haying before seeding an option here? You might got enough thatch already in the field to not bother with adding more to it.

I'd hay, then spread seed, then run that drag harrowwith the teetch pointing back, then pack it down, then roll it in The harrows does 3 things. Flufs up the thatch, damages the existing plants, and stirs the seed with the sol a bit. Likely a double pass. If haying is not an otpion. Mow in july twice, then mow again early august, then seed harrow, and roll in.

Also, you can fill your lawn roller with sand for a better effect. Tractor tires work doo too. Do a tire width over at a time until you got all the space between the tire from the 2st pass. Then move over a tractor width and do again. I do that wth my ATV too, but fill up the tires to about 10 psi instead of the usual 4-5.

Try the frost seeding method, but don;t do a big spot, like a 1/8 or 1/4 acre. 2 or 3 passes at the edge of a field where you hunt. Mark where you did it well.

Clover blend for me. LAdino, medium red, balsana, berseem. I avoid dutch white, birdsfoot trefoil, and really don't mess with afalfa anymore either. But, I spray gly. You mght need the dutch. I buy these in bulk bags and mix them together. I also buy locally sourced clover blends and them to it too.

I have used white vinegar/salt/dish soap. Not sure how much I would need for 1/3 -1/2 acre. DER= dwarf Essex rape

This spot hasn't been hayed in 30 years or so. Very wet and lots of better ground available. I have medium red, alsike, and a white clover blend of berseem and ladino.

What I'd really like to do is burn a patch, but I'm not sure the owner would go for it. Also, I wouldn't care to see 30+ acres of grass/thatch on fire.

If the frost seeding doesn't take, then I think I will try the drag harrows and lawn roller method.

I'm trying to narrow down movement in a sea of grass. Mowing trails helps a little. I seem to have good success during archery season, so I'd like to keep the "plot" on the small side. I have lots of ideas how I would improve it if it were my own land, but after looking up the assessed value - that doesn't look promising.

 

[matinc]

I now really believe the best way to do throw and mow/crimp is to in mid August throw your seed and then crimp your rye from the previous year. Then get your brush hog or mower and mow whatever did not crimp down near 4 inches. Wait 30 days and come back and re mow your plot at 4 inches. This way the the whole plot is at 4 inches at the beginning of October for all perrenials and anything that has germinated. SD would like to hear your input.

 

[SD51555]

I now really believe the best way to do throw and mow/crimp is to in mid August throw your seed and then crimp your rye from the previous year. Then get your brush hog or mower and mow whatever did not crimp down near 4 inches. Wait 30 days and come back and re mow your plot at 4 inches. This way the the whole plot is at 4 inches at the beginning of October for all perrenials and anything that has germinated. SD would like to hear your input.

That's about where I'm at. Keep in mind, I'm trying to take out as many steps as possible. I've discovered the blend that works for me, and it all terminates seasonally in my area around the end of July. So there's no need to mow, even if it's standing up. The one exception is chicory. That will stand back up. Otherwise, I can throw my fall seeding into the standing dead crop, press it flat and walk away.

I'd really be in the chips now had I the guts to try it with my winter trit instead of 12 bushels oats to the acre. To compensate, I'm not doing any grasses this spring. I've got a mountain of high carbon residue there, so I wanna let the legume and broadleaves have a go at it for the summer, and then throw the trit in again next August along witih all my other biennials.

 

[SD51555]

The other thing to consider is mowing sets back your tonnage. Even in perennial clover, I've left some plots go untouched for the entire year, and the mowed clover next to it never caught back up on tonnage. The un-mowed stuff still got eaten to the dirt, and there was way more of it.

 

[omicron1792]

The other thing to consider is mowing sets back your tonnage. Even in perennial clover, I've left some plots go untouched for the entire year, and the mowed clover next to it never caught back up on tonnage. The un-mowed stuff still got eaten to the dirt, and there was way more of it.

Yeah. I think mowing clover to help it be eaten has been debunked.

 

[matinc]

SD what's your thinking on trit over rye. What is your magic bean seeding rates.

 

[matinc]

SD were you planting 12 bushel of oats to an acre???

 

[SD51555]

SD what's your thinking on trit over rye. What is your magic bean seeding rates.

I'm going all triticale next year. Forever, I'd been focused on rye to keep grasses out, but in reality, rye only has a 2-4 week head start on any other winter cereal. They both come up green the moment the growing season starts, and they both start sucking in free nitrogen that would go to grasses. In the end, winter trit ends up being about a foot taller for me, the stems are much thicker, and the seed heads are more desirable.

Given that I'm rolling them flat instead of mowing, those seed heads stay intact. I don't know if they'll get used, but the option is there. Otherwise, I think the trit beats rye on residue tonnage. At least that's what I've seen on my place. I'm also considering throwing some zucchini and peas or beans in with my fall seeding. This way has shown me I've got endless amounts of residue to germinate anything i want with a little luck and rain, regardless of how large the seed is, or how deep it's supposed to be. After I saw my deer eat a 28" zucchini I put out for them, I have to try it. Lots of 65 day zucchini to choose from out there that should make it just fine.

Seeding rates, if it looks like I'm gonna be successful because I've managed to get my heavy residue blanket, I'll drop down to 1 bushel/ac or less. I want to leave room for other things like the zucchini, either peas or beans, and maybe some brassicas. I'm getting up there in acres, and I need to try them again. I might be able to outrun them finally.

 

[SD51555]

SD were you planting 12 bushel of oats to an acre???

Yep. I put 3 bushels on a quarter acre plot. Oats have always been very hit and miss for me. I never adjusted for my heavy residue layer, or the odds that I'd get 1.5" of rain just minutes after I planted. So every single one germinated and it was a disaster. I had a few pockets where I had managed to miss with the heaviest rates, and there were big thistles there prior, where the oats grew well. They got stemmy and headed out, and the deer ate them. The ones that were too thick and stunted, the deer never touched them.