T-Budding: New Questions

[SD51555]

*What do you think is the acceptable time frame to t-bud? I've heard August, but how big is that window? Can a guy do last week of July? First week of September?

*How big of a caliper is needed to be able to t-bud?

I planted last year some 12-18" seedlings that were very thin. I haven't looked at them since they broke bud this year. I'm wondering if I can potentially sneak some on this year, or if I should wait to year 3 to try 'em.

 

[sandbur]

I have some bud sticks coming from GRIN and am thinking about cancelling the order.
With the usual July/August droughts, I wonder if it is worth the effort.

Any suggestions if the bark does not slip

Is there any preference on north or south side of the rootstock for t-bud placement? I am referring tonorthern climates with summer heat, winter sunscauld, and cold northern winds in winter.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I am constantly stumbling onto more articles and I am on a fruit growing forum alot as well. Seems that most of the articles a guy reads on T-budding were probably from a source that is say zone 6 or 7. A guy was telling me the other day that when he is June budding he is using this years growth that is already as thick as a pencil and has completely formed dormant buds. I was thinking no wonder why I failed last year with T - budding. The stuff I was trying to use was a lot smaller diameter and I could barely see the dormant bud. Those T-buds do need enough time to callus into the tree, but from what I have now gathered the later you wait the more likely your success for us colder climate guys. I am going to aim for the end of August and give it a shot again this year.

A guy will have to water trees to get the bark slipping if you are in a dry spell. I have read before to place your T-bud on the north side of the tree, but again not sure if it varies from local to local.

 

[SD51555]

I just found this guy from the U of M: http://www.extension.umn.edu/garden/yard-garden/fruit/grafting-and-budding-fruit-trees/#budding

 

[deepsleep]

I have fooled around with t-budding the past 2 years, zone 5a/b. The first year, my take was 0, because I took the wrong scion wood. Make sure it is this year's wood, and close enough to the growth collar to have mature buds. On some of the wood, the buds will be much more developed than others. Basically, you need the bud to be mature enough to grow out the next spring, but you need to graft early enough that the bud heals in by the time the tree goes dormant and frosts hit. For me, the first or second week of August worked well last year. You also have to have bark that is slipping. As mentioned above, water the trees for several days before you graft if in a drought, this will help. The other important thing I noticed is the size of rootstock was a huge factor in determining success/failure. I had 100% success on t-buds where the rootstock was smaller than my ring finger or so. Once I got to thumb sized, the success went to about 20-30%. On the other hand, my bark grafts on thumb sized and larger stock was close to 100%. The beauty of this is that you get 2 chances per year to make it work. For t-budding I just used parafilm to wrap. Was super easy. Pruned off the tops in March of those where the bud looked alive. Pictures aren't the best, but one is from Nov, another from early May, last from this week. Trees need to be cleaned up, but t-buds are really taking off.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Deepsleep did you wrap over the top of the T- bud as well? Or leave the bud exposed? Did you remove the sliver of wood from the back of the T-bud?

 

[sandbur]

Deepsleep did you wrap over the top of the T- bud as well? Or leave the bud exposed? Did you remove the sliver of wood from the back of the T-bud?

I tried 5 or 6 last year and had no success. I did remove the sliver of wood from behind the bud and also left the wraps on until this spring.

I also suspect my buds were not mature enough.

Good pointers!

 

[deepsleep]

Yes, I did remove the sliver of wood, even though it freaked me out because they are pretty well connected at one point (where the leaf attaches, maybe?) so it leaves a little divot and comes apart with a little pop. I wrapped tightly with several wraps of 1/2" parafilm as close to the bud as I could without going over it. I cut the wraps in late September--several had degraded on their own, whereas others were pretty tight. The year before, I t-budded a bunch in late July, and everything seemed to go well. I was too lazy to read about it again before I did it, as I had been reading about it for months. On the plane ride home, I realized I hadn't necessarily chosen proper bud wood. I had most buds look like they took (leaf stem fell off, bark healed) but none grew in the spring. One thing I didn't do during the unsuccessful year was cut off the main leader in late winter. This last time, I cut them off above the buds with the plan to be bark grafting if my buds were a failure. Low and behold, they worked (at least on the small stock). Here is a pic from the unsuccessful year at a bud healed in nicely in September--unfortunately, never grew in the spring. Immature bud is my best guess, but could be it didn't grow because I left the leader above--not sure.

 

[deepsleep]

One more reminder, too. Here is an Ashmead Kernal t-budded onto a Coldstream seedling crab. It was growing away beautifully, until something landed on it (I suspect). Fortunately, in this case, I put 2 buds on which both survived. The second can be seen below the broken one. I can't do much about this because I live in FL, but for those of you who can keep an eye on things, may want to get your new shoots staked when they take off.

 

[chickenlittle]

I watered my T budded trees a little. Been dry so I figure it helps them heal and take. A little drink every couple days if no rain.

I removed the grafting tape from my first ones done 3 weeks ago. They had healed nicely and it was a time to get the tape off before any girdling occurred. Some looked good while others likely did not have a mature enough bud to be viable. I took tape off the one bud graft that was 15 days old and it looked well healed with a nice bud. My last set had been budded for 10 days. Those had a stretchier flagging tape since I ran out of pvc grafting tape. Those were not fully healed. Since I was not sure when I'll get back there, I took the tape off the hard to find ones and will let my dad remove the rest some time in the next 2 weeks.

 

[chickenlittle]

I've wondered about getting budsticks in the mail too. I find it a bit tough to believe that survival would be good after getting cooked for a few days in July/August heat.

They shipped my budwood overnight by UPS. I got an email notification from UPS with tracking number so I could arrange to get it into the fridge right away. It arrived by 1030am. If you couldn't be there, I'd leave a cooler with a big sign for the UPS guy. The budwood was in great shape for me to use. I got 2 to 3 sticks of each variety. Maturity and bud formation varied. I could have budded 20+ trees of each variety.

 

[leexrayshady]

I am truly impressed with the quality of scions that come from grin

 

[chickenlittle]

End of the day is when we normally get UPS packages but this came by the standard overnight by 1030am shipping.

 

[deepsleep]

I watered my T budded trees a little. Been dry so I figure it helps them heal and take. A little drink every couple days if no rain.

I removed the grafting tape from my first ones done 3 weeks ago. They had healed nicely and it was a time to get the tape off before any girdling occurred. Some looked good while others likely did not have a mature enough bud to be viable. I took tape off the one bud graft that was 15 days old and it looked well healed with a nice bud. My last set had been budded for 10 days. Those had a stretchier flagging tape since I ran out of pvc grafting tape. Those were not fully healed. Since I was not sure when I'll get back there, I took the tape off the hard to find ones and will let my dad remove the rest some time in the next 2 weeks.

Don't be surprised if your "tiny" buds are plenty mature. I have several varieties last year that were the size of a pin head or even smaller that are 3-4 feet tall now. Several I wasn't even sure I could see anything there. I grafted around Aug 10th in 5b and I took the buds that should be the right ones. And most came from wood quite a bit smaller than a pencil.

 

[deepsleep]

I checked my tbuds today. The leaf stem fell off with a slight touch. Do I leave the parafilm on or take it off? I doubt they'll grow much more this year to girdle?

From everything I've read, they should be fully healed in something under 2 weeks. That being said, on most of mine the parafilm degraded enough on its own over 2 months. On those that didn't, I cut it loose in November. It's a good sign when the stem detaches like that. I had some last year that looked a bit iffy around the edges, as the edges of the rootstock were curled up slightly. The budwood bark, however, was firmly attached to the stock. I wasn't optimistic about these, but the way I confirmed survival was by scraping the budwood bark slightly. To my surprise, some that I thought didn't take were green (this was in March). Once I confirmed they were alive, I cut the rootstock off above the bud. Any questions, just ask. 2 years ago I had 0% survival and I was a laugingstock amongst my habitat friends. Last year, I was 100% on anything under thumb sized rootstock, and 50% on larger stock.