How long to hang on to a property & When to move on
- Thread starter gjs4
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Catscratch
5 year old buck +
356 has a great point in states moving towards banning bait. KS has a strong push going right now. I don't think it'll happen real soon but if anyone ever comes up with concrete proof that baiting spreads CWD then I suspect most states will ban it. This will change outfitting significantly!
Good luck with your decision. My parents shopped for decades for the right chunk. Ended up buying junk, but with tree plantings, plots, the addition of a pond, and several other things it's become a dream property. Anything is possible.
Good luck with your decision. My parents shopped for decades for the right chunk. Ended up buying junk, but with tree plantings, plots, the addition of a pond, and several other things it's become a dream property. Anything is possible.
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Is what he's doing illegal?
Can you maintain it in a way they wouldn't need to? I've hunted several places with utility rights of ways, and unless they were doing line work or pipeline break/fix type things, keeping it free of trees was all that was needed to keep them out of there.
Jerry-B-WI
5 year old buck +
I wouldn't count on it. If CWD is found in any county in Wisconsin, high fence or in the wild, baiting is banned in the county. The county has to have clean testing for 3 years before baiting is allowed again. Stop at any gas station, convenience store in those counties with a baiting ban and you can buy all the bait you want. People are still baiting even with a ban. Unless someone rats you out I think it's pretty easy to get away with baiting.
Unless you have very deep pockets, buying land with a high likelihood of consistently producing 5.5 yr old deer is a crapshoot. You can do all the research in the world, buy your property in the perfect place, and the neighbor dies next year and the place sells to a man with 8 kids and 16 grandkids - all who like to hunt. Do you sell out - again - and keep chasing the perfect property. I was depressed with my property for awhile - but lived halfway between my two kids so couldnt really move. I stuck it out, made a few changes that helped big time, lowered my expectations some - and glad I did.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Sell it and buy something better? Good luck. Maybe you will. Maybe you won't. I'd be looking at some long term sale value. Is there a better use for it? As an investment will it perform? I'm almost sure, considering transaction costs, out and back in to something else will be severe. I get where you are, but try to erase the magical thinking from the consideration. It's a tough decision for sure.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the Wisdom to know the difference....
Went back and re-read your original post. I think you've found all the negatives. What are the good things? Work both sides. That's the fun of all this - to me!
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the Wisdom to know the difference....
Went back and re-read your original post. I think you've found all the negatives. What are the good things? Work both sides. That's the fun of all this - to me!
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Telemark
5 year old buck +
Not even a year yet? I would at least give it another season and try to be honest about my efforts and their effects. Then I would go in next year with a proper plan and execute it and see how it worked out.
I don't think I could give up on a property before I made a real, honest try of it.
I don't think I could give up on a property before I made a real, honest try of it.
Dogshooter
5 year old buck +
We bought our property in September 2018. Didn’t hunt it much at all that first year, only a couple days, but ran plenty of cameras. I honestly had maybe two bucks that were two year olds and that was it. Very minimal deer herd to call my place home. I was disappointed but half expected it. The cabin needed lots of work so spent my fall working on that.
Spent the summer of 2019 getting the plots limed, fertilized, expanded and planted. Learned some things on what to do and what not to do.
I Killed the first buck out their fall of 2020, a decent 3 year old that I couldn’t pass up at the time. He checked all the boxes and got me exited so I arrowed him. Learned some more things about the property and how to hunt it.
2021 plots getting better, more deer calling the place home. In November I killed my target 5 year old. Many more pics of 3 year olds than in the past and a couple 4.
2022 I killed another target 5 year old. Still building history with the deer and the place and had one other for sure 5+ year old to hunt and passed on a 4 year old. Again plots weee good and overall numbers way up from 2018.
2023 I have last years passed 4 year old, now 5, to hunt and a couple that will likely show up mid October in the same age class as that’s what they did in years past. Lots of 2 and 3 year old up and comers so far and it’s early yet.
My plots are now where I want them. The deer have gotten older and now more are calling my place home. It has come along ways in 5 short but long years. Long because it has been a lot of work.
I say all of this because you won’t see results overnight in my experience. You need to put in the work with improvements to get those deer to call your place home and keep them alive. Sure you will lose some to the neighbors but that’s life. My vote is to keep it, put in the work and if you aren’t where you want to be in 3-4 years then think about selling. You will not lose money on improvements if you do it right and will likely add more value in the long run.
My two cents. Good luck!
Spent the summer of 2019 getting the plots limed, fertilized, expanded and planted. Learned some things on what to do and what not to do.
I Killed the first buck out their fall of 2020, a decent 3 year old that I couldn’t pass up at the time. He checked all the boxes and got me exited so I arrowed him. Learned some more things about the property and how to hunt it.
2021 plots getting better, more deer calling the place home. In November I killed my target 5 year old. Many more pics of 3 year olds than in the past and a couple 4.
2022 I killed another target 5 year old. Still building history with the deer and the place and had one other for sure 5+ year old to hunt and passed on a 4 year old. Again plots weee good and overall numbers way up from 2018.
2023 I have last years passed 4 year old, now 5, to hunt and a couple that will likely show up mid October in the same age class as that’s what they did in years past. Lots of 2 and 3 year old up and comers so far and it’s early yet.
My plots are now where I want them. The deer have gotten older and now more are calling my place home. It has come along ways in 5 short but long years. Long because it has been a lot of work.
I say all of this because you won’t see results overnight in my experience. You need to put in the work with improvements to get those deer to call your place home and keep them alive. Sure you will lose some to the neighbors but that’s life. My vote is to keep it, put in the work and if you aren’t where you want to be in 3-4 years then think about selling. You will not lose money on improvements if you do it right and will likely add more value in the long run.
My two cents. Good luck!
Buckly
5 year old buck +
How many acres do you have there?
Dogshooter
5 year old buck +
160
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Where we're at in 2023, I'd be very apprehensive to sell a property before I had a new one purchased. I'm sure we're all sitting on ridiculous gains on the property we have regardless of how long we've owned it, but we're also going to pay ridiculous amounts to get into another property. Rec land just seems like something that isn't going to be sensitive to interest rates. I think it's already become a rich man's game. So, that being said, here's a few things I'd do before pulling the pin.
1. If you can swing it, find another property first, buy it, and get it closed before you even list yours, even if you have to cough up a few thousand in finance costs to orchestrate it.
2. See if you can lease your property to the outfitter. If it's not gonna work for you, maybe you can get someone else to give you an ROI on it and keep it. I don't know a whole lot about leasing, so put a pencil to it and see if it's an option. Also, see if the outfitter wants to buy it from you.
3. Review your expectations. This is a hobby and should bring you joy and relaxation, regardless of your hunt outcomes.
4. Put a fish pond in near your cabin if the land is fit for it. So much additional utility to be had with your own fish pond, even a quarter acre. It's a whole new world of management activities if you're into that.
5. Wait and see.
1. If you can swing it, find another property first, buy it, and get it closed before you even list yours, even if you have to cough up a few thousand in finance costs to orchestrate it.
2. See if you can lease your property to the outfitter. If it's not gonna work for you, maybe you can get someone else to give you an ROI on it and keep it. I don't know a whole lot about leasing, so put a pencil to it and see if it's an option. Also, see if the outfitter wants to buy it from you.
3. Review your expectations. This is a hobby and should bring you joy and relaxation, regardless of your hunt outcomes.
4. Put a fish pond in near your cabin if the land is fit for it. So much additional utility to be had with your own fish pond, even a quarter acre. It's a whole new world of management activities if you're into that.
5. Wait and see.
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
The neighbors baiting could be very good for your hunting. With low pressure since you don’t live close by I wouldn’t be surprised if you see some great bucks this year.
I feed deer and I rarely see big bucks at feeders during daylight hours. They should be cruising and bedding all over your property
I feed deer and I rarely see big bucks at feeders during daylight hours. They should be cruising and bedding all over your property
A few responses and tidbits to add.
This is 75 ac.
Without the deer hunting the main draw is the local with both location to a cool city, plenty of neat parks/destinations and locational proximity to other states/areas. Does it offer other big attraction aspects (as to if all the deer died "would i want it?"), definitely for the Mrs, not so much for me. I am all deer all year (aka an addicted idiot. lol) My wife doesnt hunt but does appreciate my love of it and it also gave us an interesting "homebase" feel with this location though for different reasons. A dreamy deer only location in the middle of nowhere would not be of interest to my wife at all. I do appreciate both sides of that idea- haha- but sharing something as we get near the empty nest is likely the better place to be (together).
If Ohio ever did away with baiting this property would be over the top good. I also share reservations on if that could ever happen short of CWD in the area and this would be a bigger issue seeing how other states have handled it. Deer in Ohio may not even know corn grows on cobs. lol
The outfitter has a business tie that allows him to conduct this on a lease where this shouldn't be happening. Not necessarily a legal issue or one I can stop at the moment.....but looking into it. As for what he is hunting and killing (or even his techniques or using an outfitter for whitetails)- no interest. His market is out of state folks with low effort and standards.
As for the gas ROW- yup- can do whatever i want on it other than plant woody stuff or limit their passage through. As for mowing, i dont think they've mowed until now and believe that is solely because they want to work on it. I wish they were more cooperative with the timing. Any suggestions as to what others have done on ROWs for planting? I fear food will draw trespassers and a switch will get mowed.
The serenity prayer is a beautiful reference on what to engage, how and when, I had a health hiccup come into my life recently and its added to the midlife outlook and understanding of timelines. While we should be good, and I stubbornly have little interest in shooting 3yo bucks, it has me very anxious and impatient. Heck, I ordered a bunch of trees (obviously to be shipping in spring) just a couple weeks back for this place and would likely sell it today for a fair offer. Forgive the mess that occupies this mans head at times, but would suspect some of you know what i mean by deer/deer habitat being a fella's only hobby outside of family stuff. It makes a guy anxious...too anxious at times.
I admire the folks that say run and those that show their successes with time and effort. Really appreciate the affirmation from those of you who felt they weren't happy year one and in time found something special.
This is 75 ac.
Without the deer hunting the main draw is the local with both location to a cool city, plenty of neat parks/destinations and locational proximity to other states/areas. Does it offer other big attraction aspects (as to if all the deer died "would i want it?"), definitely for the Mrs, not so much for me. I am all deer all year (aka an addicted idiot. lol) My wife doesnt hunt but does appreciate my love of it and it also gave us an interesting "homebase" feel with this location though for different reasons. A dreamy deer only location in the middle of nowhere would not be of interest to my wife at all. I do appreciate both sides of that idea- haha- but sharing something as we get near the empty nest is likely the better place to be (together).
If Ohio ever did away with baiting this property would be over the top good. I also share reservations on if that could ever happen short of CWD in the area and this would be a bigger issue seeing how other states have handled it. Deer in Ohio may not even know corn grows on cobs. lol
The outfitter has a business tie that allows him to conduct this on a lease where this shouldn't be happening. Not necessarily a legal issue or one I can stop at the moment.....but looking into it. As for what he is hunting and killing (or even his techniques or using an outfitter for whitetails)- no interest. His market is out of state folks with low effort and standards.
As for the gas ROW- yup- can do whatever i want on it other than plant woody stuff or limit their passage through. As for mowing, i dont think they've mowed until now and believe that is solely because they want to work on it. I wish they were more cooperative with the timing. Any suggestions as to what others have done on ROWs for planting? I fear food will draw trespassers and a switch will get mowed.
The serenity prayer is a beautiful reference on what to engage, how and when, I had a health hiccup come into my life recently and its added to the midlife outlook and understanding of timelines. While we should be good, and I stubbornly have little interest in shooting 3yo bucks, it has me very anxious and impatient. Heck, I ordered a bunch of trees (obviously to be shipping in spring) just a couple weeks back for this place and would likely sell it today for a fair offer. Forgive the mess that occupies this mans head at times, but would suspect some of you know what i mean by deer/deer habitat being a fella's only hobby outside of family stuff. It makes a guy anxious...too anxious at times.
I admire the folks that say run and those that show their successes with time and effort. Really appreciate the affirmation from those of you who felt they weren't happy year one and in time found something special.
My opinion - realizing I am not familiar at all with the area - but deal with the same property conditions - right down to a major powerline ROW across part of the property - I would say 75 acres is a fairly small piece of ground to expect to consistently have 5 yr old bucks using.
I would say you would be much better off looking for a piece of property that backed up to a hunting restrictive piece of ground than searching for a piece of property in a “good” area. I have a 60 acre piece of property that backs up to a large NWR that has very restrictive firearms hunting - and that piece of property has had more than its fair share of quality deer - not because it produces them - but because the adjacent restrictive NWR saves them. This is in an area otherwise known for sub quality deer, 60 days of firearm season, and a two buck limit.
I have 15 adjacent property owners to my home ground 350 acres. Most are 15/20 acres with no hope of saving a deer until it has age. You cant control your neighbors. But you can search - probably long and hard - for a piece of property that has a restrictive adjacent owner on one side. NWR, WMA, State Park, City Land - etc.
I would say you would be much better off looking for a piece of property that backed up to a hunting restrictive piece of ground than searching for a piece of property in a “good” area. I have a 60 acre piece of property that backs up to a large NWR that has very restrictive firearms hunting - and that piece of property has had more than its fair share of quality deer - not because it produces them - but because the adjacent restrictive NWR saves them. This is in an area otherwise known for sub quality deer, 60 days of firearm season, and a two buck limit.
I have 15 adjacent property owners to my home ground 350 acres. Most are 15/20 acres with no hope of saving a deer until it has age. You cant control your neighbors. But you can search - probably long and hard - for a piece of property that has a restrictive adjacent owner on one side. NWR, WMA, State Park, City Land - etc.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
#3 above is the key. Is it still fun to go there and to think of the management.
If it is no longer fun, is it an investment that makes sense?
With age, I am no longer doing much land management on a property that is two hours away. Timber harvest pays some of the taxes and things have changed with some neighbors I don’t trust. I do enjoy going there a few times a year.
Currently, I much prefer the place where I live in farm country. There are less people and I trust my farming neighbors.
Doublewide
A good 3 year old buck
At this point in your life your desire is to shoot a big buck, I don't know how many trophy's you've shot in your life but maybe when you scratch that itch the desire to do so will diminish and you'll progress to another stage of deer hunting. As many on here will attest to the definition of a trophy changes as you age and doing habitat work takes over that drive. Personally I sit in a tree stand now as I'm waiting for a buck to appear I find myself getting as much enjoyment of making mental notes of a tree that needs trimming or an invasive that should be removed etc.. If possible take a few hunts to Saskatchewan and shoot some wall hangers and see if that satisfies your desires. Goals are different for everyone but it appears to me the Ohio parcel checks a lot of the boxes for your family and it could work out for you over time.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Good thoughts. Just to counter that though, some folks ultimate goal is to shoot a trophy on their property where they most likely have hand in the outcome. The idea of sitting in some blind with a bale or alfalfa some guy set up and pulling the trigger may not scratch that itch. It’s definitely a tough dilemma for which i don’t have the answer to unfortunately
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
I agree with both. I care more about the habitat work, but taking a large trophy buck from my efforts is cool too!
There is a joy in a place like this for sometimes you're learning, some times you're smiling....but you're always in great company.
All of the yesterdays posts make sense.
As for bringing me fun and an investment; two different things as I found myself here leaving my only previous way of thinking with maxing my 401k deferral . Never once has that brought me joy. I had a big smile and a chit ton of profit in the last administration and lost my arse with the current. Never once loved it, had a picture of a statement on my phone for sharing with friends and it did keep us broke at times and emotionally hurt to loose that much. Now could i have watched it closer to manage gains and losses? Sure; but thats what i had an investor for.
This property is exactly what Howaboutthemdawgs and Omicron shared for their interests. I love habitat work and in the deer scheme it is only second to chasing big bucks. I have killed some too, and managed ground/habitat here in NY since 2007. I work with people all day and the solace of a treestand, or outlook into the scenery afront with developing schemes and plans for improvement is my happy place. This purchase and place was/is that tree stand get away out of state where the scenery is different but the trophy possibility is all the higher. I have never paid for deer hunting other than one lease one year (to which i never will do again) and the idea of an outfitter is akin to voting for life service from the current DC staff. To each their own, but thats not me.
Perhaps I had hopes too high for 75ac and/or this local in Ohio. That is fair. I am also being impatient. fact. I am following EHD and a year of drought. facts. Another aspect is some personal life items of the past few years that arent so pleasant.....i wanted this to be the distraction and future location to relocate too. I dont pray for trivial stuff or self satisfaction but I may have sent a few early Christmas wish lists out just asking for a giant at 2am on cam even if i knew i would never see him. Much to the happy place in a stand comment, my treesstand time is a "safe space" (as the kids say) from the day to day.
Have been told this is the month window when mature bucks begin to roam for both does and leaving what was once a hidden surplus of acorns....so maybe, just maybe, something will come together. If not, it will be a question of how many of my young buck buddies can i carry through a year or two more, and would i be better elsewhere.
Thanks gents
All of the yesterdays posts make sense.
As for bringing me fun and an investment; two different things as I found myself here leaving my only previous way of thinking with maxing my 401k deferral . Never once has that brought me joy. I had a big smile and a chit ton of profit in the last administration and lost my arse with the current. Never once loved it, had a picture of a statement on my phone for sharing with friends and it did keep us broke at times and emotionally hurt to loose that much. Now could i have watched it closer to manage gains and losses? Sure; but thats what i had an investor for.
This property is exactly what Howaboutthemdawgs and Omicron shared for their interests. I love habitat work and in the deer scheme it is only second to chasing big bucks. I have killed some too, and managed ground/habitat here in NY since 2007. I work with people all day and the solace of a treestand, or outlook into the scenery afront with developing schemes and plans for improvement is my happy place. This purchase and place was/is that tree stand get away out of state where the scenery is different but the trophy possibility is all the higher. I have never paid for deer hunting other than one lease one year (to which i never will do again) and the idea of an outfitter is akin to voting for life service from the current DC staff. To each their own, but thats not me.
Perhaps I had hopes too high for 75ac and/or this local in Ohio. That is fair. I am also being impatient. fact. I am following EHD and a year of drought. facts. Another aspect is some personal life items of the past few years that arent so pleasant.....i wanted this to be the distraction and future location to relocate too. I dont pray for trivial stuff or self satisfaction but I may have sent a few early Christmas wish lists out just asking for a giant at 2am on cam even if i knew i would never see him. Much to the happy place in a stand comment, my treesstand time is a "safe space" (as the kids say) from the day to day.
Have been told this is the month window when mature bucks begin to roam for both does and leaving what was once a hidden surplus of acorns....so maybe, just maybe, something will come together. If not, it will be a question of how many of my young buck buddies can i carry through a year or two more, and would i be better elsewhere.
Thanks gents
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Just another comment. I feel each property peaks for mature bucks at a certain period during the fall hunt. Of course, a change in management or hunting pressure on adjacent lands will change things on your land.
It may take several years to identify that peak time on your land and then you need to determine the best way to maximize it.
It may take several years to identify that peak time on your land and then you need to determine the best way to maximize it.
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