Soil fundamentals library

[SD51555]

Would it be accurate to assume that your remark that my dirt is "sandy" is based on the cation exchange


Great, thank you!

Would it be accurate to say your assumption that my ground is "sandy" is because of the cation exchange score?

Most everyone who has toured my ground has remarked at how "clayish" it seems. It is quite greasy when wet and I've gotten my 4WD tractor with R1 tires stuck in it. The dominant soils on my farm are, according to the USDA soil maps, WIlliamstown-Conover Complex and Miami clay loam.

Soil Data Explorer | California Soil Resource Lab

Soil Data Explorer | California Soil Resource Lab

Soil Data Explorer | California Soil Resource Lab

Unless my sampling methodology was flawed and my soil probe just hit the wrong spots. Or I just have the tightest sands around.

That’s where I was headed yes. Your CEC says sandy, but your calcium to magnesium ratio says it’s greasy. And It would be puzzling to have a neutral to clay soil with a low CEC, but that’s exactly what I have depending on how deep you go.

Top 6” at my place is a CEC of 8. Get down 24” and it jumps to 20.

You’re still good to go with those numbers I gave you. If you don’t have moisture concerns of a sandy topsoil, kick that rate up to 2,000 lbs/ac the first year and see how it responds after 12 months.


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[farmlegend]

That’s where I was headed yes. Your CEC says sandy, but your calcium to magnesium ratio says it’s greasy. And It would be puzzling to have a neutral to clay soil with a low CEC, but that’s exactly what I have depending on how deep you go.

Top 6” at my place is a CEC of 8. Get down 24” and it jumps to 20.

You’re still good to go with those numbers I gave you. If you don’t have moisture concerns of a sandy topsoil, kick that rate up to 2,000 lbs/ac the first year and see how it responds after 12 months.


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Thank you.

I may have to do some scrambling to round up some gypsum. Deadends so far.

 

[homerj]

Where would a person source a ton or more of pelletized gypsum at a reasonable cost?

 

[T-Max]

Menards has the best price on it near me. I don’t know anywhere to buy it in bulk.


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[farmlegend]

Menards has the best price on it near me. I don’t know anywhere to buy it in bulk.


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One ton/acre over on that nine acres works out to 450 40 pound bags, and then prospectively 1,350 bags over three years. Not something I’d take on.

 

[Foggy47]

Is that gypsum pelletized or powder? What do you spread it with?

 

[farmlegend]

Is that gypsum pelletized or powder? What do you spread it with?

I assume I’d be looking for ag gypsum. Ag lime is a cinch, I could have a guy out spreading that next week, done in minutes for a very reasonable cost per ton.

 

[SD51555]

I assume I’d be looking for ag gypsum. Ag lime is a cinch, I could have a guy out spreading that next week, done in minutes for a very reasonable cost per ton.

U may have to draw a circle around your place and keep going outward until u find a farm coop that carries it. It could take some savvy negotiating to get a coop to apply it. When I lived in South Dakota, guys that farmed 120 acres were treated like food plotters and the coops weren’t very helpful.

A few pointers I’d try if you do find it:

Tell them they can spread whenever they’re not busy.

Offer to pay whatever extra mileage or minimum application charge they wanna stick on it.


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[TreeDaddy]

Currently reading "The Nature & Properties of Soil" by Brady/Weil

One had better brush up on chemistry fundamentals before tackling this read

bill

 

[farmlegend]

U may have to draw a circle around your place and keep going outward until u find a farm coop that carries it. It could take some savvy negotiating to get a coop to apply it. When I lived in South Dakota, guys that farmed 120 acres were treated like food plotters and the coops weren’t very helpful.

A few pointers I’d try if you do find it:

Tell them they can spread whenever they’re not busy.

Offer to pay whatever extra mileage or minimum application charge they wanna stick on it.


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I have found a guy the next county over who has verbally agreed to do it for me, in concert with spreading lime on a neighboring farmer when it works into their schedule. Fingers crossed!

Given what an Act of Congress it is to get this done, I’m thinking of making it two tons/acre so I don’t have to do it again anytime soon.

 

[matinc]

Legend last time I had lime spread I bumped it up to 3 tons per acre. Check your soil analysis and if need be just do it. With a truck they do it really quick

 

[SD51555]

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[SD51555]

I went digging for my box of books to get my MN tree book to see what it says about Balsam Poplar. I found a couple of read a number of years back that really opened my eyes on how allelopathy functions. These books are not exciting, and mostly unrelated to what we do, but this is where I learned about some interesting things like autotoxic plants, autointoxication, organic acids, oak leaves being a grass inhibitor, thistle management, etc.

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[TreeDaddy]

well, I am way down the rabbit hole now

Finishing up " Nature and Properties of Soil" and am into "Soil Chemistry" by Strawn ,et al

Fascinated with redox potentials, pH,electrical conductivity and their implications in cover crop management

bill

 

[SD51555]

well, I am way down the rabbit hole now

Finishing up " Nature and Properties of Soil" and am into "Soil Chemistry" by Strawn ,et al

Fascinated with redox potentials, pH,electrical conductivity and their implications in cover crop management

bill

Another solid one that covers a ton of disciplines in one book is Dale Strickler's. He used to be the other guy on all the Green Cover videos.

THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO RESTORING YOUR SOIL — Regenerative Wisdom

The complete guide to restoring your soil contains the blueprints for restoring our degraded soils.

www.regenerativewisdom.com

 

[farmlegend]

Another solid one that covers a ton of disciplines in one book is Dale Strickler's. He used to be the other guy on all the Green Cover videos.

THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO RESTORING YOUR SOIL — Regenerative Wisdom

The complete guide to restoring your soil contains the blueprints for restoring our degraded soils.

www.regenerativewisdom.com

Took delivery of this one Saturday, halfway though it! Thanks.

I think my gypsum source is flaking on me. How would calcitic lime work as a substitute? Assuming I have room for a pH bump on this ground.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Took delivery of this one Saturday, halfway though it! Thanks.

I think my gypsum source is flaking on me. How would calcitic lime work as a substitute? Assuming I have room for a pH bump on this ground.

High cal lime is great from a base saturation perspective but you don’t get the sulfur that you get with gypsum- which aids in N update and protein synthesis in the plant. Due to regulatory changes - many soils today have far less sulfur than in years past - we use to get it from rain (acid rain) which is another reason I believe so many see even a greater crop response with gypsum being added.

Gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate (water).

Hope this helps!

 

[farmlegend]

High cal lime is great from a base saturation perspective but you don’t get the sulfur that you get with gypsum- which aids in N update and protein synthesis in the plant. Due to regulatory changes - many soils today have far less sulfur than in years past - we use to get it from rain (acid rain) which is another reason I believe so many see even a greater crop response with gypsum being added.

Gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate (water).

Hope this helps!

Thanks. I may have to go the calcitic lime route. Getting tired of the reactions I get when I ask about gypsum.

 

[SD51555]

Thanks. I may have to go the calcitic lime route. Getting tired of the reactions I get when I ask about gypsum.

There's a Menards in Jackson, MI. Run up there and get whatever you need in bags.

 

[farmlegend]

Thanks for the lead, but I'm doing nine acres, and I'd prefer to do it with someone with a spreader truck as I've done with lime. At two tons per acre, I'd be looking at 900 40# bags of gypsum. That would make for thirty round trips to Jackson and back with my half ton pickup, not to mention what would be involved in tossing 900 bags around and spreading it myself. Not as ambitious as I used to be!