Soil fundamentals library

So uh.. till a bunch so you get air in the soil?

I try to plan things with root systems to help with compaction and stay off it when its wet but other than that, it seems like tillage (preferably vertical?) is what he's getting at?
He is talking about tillage - in heavy cec soils to quickly get CA worked in and adjust the chemical structure of the soil. John Kempf has talked about this as well and Dr. Rick Haney. It’s not anti no till. But they are suggesting fixing the issue with steel - getting saturations correct and then focusing on the biology at hand. Again, this is focusing on AG and driving yield so the time horizon is short and sweet vs. foodplotters or even pasture settings where we can allow roots to work, over time, to aid in compaction breaking up and CA movement without the major worry of top layers of soils having major stratification.
 
He is talking about tillage - in heavy cec soils to quickly get CA worked in and adjust the chemical structure of the soil. John Kempf has talked about this as well and Dr. Rick Haney. It’s not anti no till. But they are suggesting fixing the issue with steel - getting saturations correct and then focusing on the biology at hand. Again, this is focusing on AG and driving yield so the time horizon is short and sweet vs. foodplotters or even pasture settings where we can allow roots to work, over time, to aid in compaction breaking up and CA movement without the major worry of top layers of soils having major stratification.
Thanks for the clarification. He also didn't seem too big on residue.. Did I interpret that wrong?
 
Thanks for the clarification. He also didn't seem too big on residue.. Did I interpret that wrong?
Let me re-watch. I’ve been watching a lot of his stuff, seems he’s been around all over. Residues in modern agronomic practices can have negatives but in general that’s where managing C:N comes into place both in soil and cover crops. Also managing fertility in furrow at time of planting to aid in plant uptake and the relative cycling of nutrients. This is all impacted again by plant densities and then of course heat units, rain falls, etc. I’ll try to rewatch that video tip to tail and add more context specific to it.
 
Foggy I keep trying to ask questions from the professors and get more and more information. I now go back to no till and crimping and wonder is this really helping push the 200 psi deeper and deeper into the soil. How about. d none of the above. Lollll
 
Thanks for the clarification. He also didn't seem too big on residue.. Did I interpret that wrong?

Ok I rewatched this. I have reached out to a PHD. Soil Scientist, I work with often, as I don't recognize much of what he is saying as facts. I am certain he is intelligent, however- there are certainly some questions I have.

1. The low pressure forcing N into the soil profile. I found this to be the opposite, as soils are more porous - the chance for ammonium to volatilize is higher. This makes sense, especially in freshly tilled fields that don't yet have active growth occurring.
2. He speaks about carbon leaving once a burndown is done with herbicide. However, he doesn't speak about CO2 leaving once tillage occurs. Of course, there is some carbon release when microbes consume thatch, that is why we have CO2 respiration tests. By having much of the consumption happen below ground, there is hope it's a slower release and that we can keep it in the soil.
3. He talks about nothing eating plants once GLY is used - I have not seen any peer-reviewed research that would echo this claim. Some research shows an increase in microbial activity - the issue is they are unsure if the pathogenic increase after that is higher vs. if/when GLY isn't used. This is highly debated and under research in academia.
4. He talks about nutrient stratification, specific to CA. He references CA leaching through the soil profile and getting outside the rhizosphere. This is interesting because one of the issues folks have with no-till is that the lime won't move through the soil profile, and we need to get it into the root zone. Now, many will just apply lime and give it time, hoping that through cover cropping and such you will alter the PH and movement of nutrients. However, in general, CA is not an overly mobile nutrient like say N.

My follow up to this would be
1. What are the manure inputs on these fields. Often folks will claim on N inputs but then we find out they are using 4 tons per acre of manure.
2. Without manure inputs, how is he increasing or even keeping OM the same - with tillage?
3. Has he done PLFA testing before and after on these fields to show an increase in fungi? If he is not seeing residue break down, specifically higher ligin filled, C:N ratio - that tells me that due to heavy tillage, he has little fungi in the soil, and the microbiome is heavily dominated by bacteria. Especially in the case where N is lacking the thatch will struggle to break down. This is KEY to understanding nutrient cycling and C:N ratios.

There is a ton to unpack here and I hope this doesn't come off as me being overly critical. Again, I think the gentleman is intelligent. However, I felt some of the points linked correlations and derived causations, and when that is happening on a large scale, without any locatable research to back it - I become curious to learn more.

Hope someone finds this useful.
 
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Ok I rewatched this. I have reached out to a PHD. Soil Scientist, I work with often, as I don't recognize much of what he is saying as facts. I am certain he is intelligent, however- there are certainly some questions I have.

1. The low pressure forcing N into the soil profile. I found this to be the opposite, as soils are more porous - the chance for ammonium to volatilize is higher. This makes sense, especially in freshly tilled fields that don't yet have active growth occurring.
2. He speaks about carbon leaving once a burndown is done with herbicide. However, he doesn't speak about CO2 leaving once tillage occurs. Of course, there is some carbon release when microbes consume thatch, that is why we have CO2 respiration tests. By having much of the consumption happen below ground, there is hope it's a slower release and that we can keep it in the soil.
3. He talks about nothing eating plants once GLY is used - I have not seen any peer-reviewed research that would echo this claim. Some research shows an increase in microbial activity - the issue is they are unsure if the pathogenic increase after that is higher vs. if/when GLY isn't used. This is highly debated and under research in academia.
4. He talks about nutrient stratification, specific to CA. He references CA leaching through the soil profile and getting outside the rhizosphere. This is interesting because one of the issues folks have with no-till is that the lime won't move through the soil profile, and we need to get it into the root zone. Now, many will just apply lime and give it time, hoping that through cover cropping and such you will alter the PH and movement of nutrients. However, in general, CA is not an overly mobile nutrient like say N.

My follow up to this would be
1. What are the manure inputs on these fields. Often folks will claim on N inputs but then we find out they are using 4 tons per acre of manure.
2. Without manure inputs, how is he increasing or even keeping OM the same
3. Has he done PLFA testing before and after on these fields to show an increase in fungi? If he is not seeing residue break down, specifically higher ligin filled, C:N ratio - that tells me that due to heavy tillage, he has little fungi in the soil, and the microbiome is heavily dominated by bacteria. Especially in the case where N is lacking the thatch will struggle to break down. This is KEY to understanding nutrient cycling and C:N ratios.

There is a ton to unpack here and I hope this doesn't come off as me being overly critical. Again, I think the gentleman is intelligent. However, I felt some of the points linked correlations and derived causations, and when that is happening on a large scale, without any locatable research to back it - I become curious to learn more.

Hope someone finds this useful.

Wow, thanks for responding with so much detail. Great stuff. I had many thoughts related to these things as I watched the video. He presented these big concepts with analogies that seemed to really lack the nuance of what is happening.

Like you said, the nutrient stratification discussed is the opposite of what my understanding was with no-till systems where surface applied ammendments and nutrients from prior plants can be concentrated more at the surface.
 
Wow, thanks for responding with so much detail. Great stuff. I had many thoughts related to these things as I watched the video. He presented these big concepts with analogies that seemed to really lack the nuance of what is happening.

Like you said, the nutrient stratification discussed is the opposite of what my understanding was with no-till systems where surface applied ammendments and nutrients from prior plants can be concentrated more at the surface.

yes - it is undisputable that tillage is going to create REDOX reactions and increase microbial respiration.

Much of what he speaks about is the chemical side of soils via soil chemistry. However, when 02 is put into soils, there is an undoubted increase in microbial activity and CO2 release. There is also a plethora of redox (reduction/oxidation reactions) that cause nutrients to increase or decrease in mobility relative to the reaction that is occurring. When microbes increase via tillage, they are hungry for carbon, and they will proliferate rapidly.

If the crop that was tilled in cannot sustain the hunger for the microbes, they will look for a carbon source - often that is the OM and possibly even the stable portion of the OM in the soil. Now, if growing a cash crop - it will assimilate much of this as the nutrients are mineralized from the hungry microbes, but what happens next? The crop is harvested and that OM is gone. This is again why I question what are the manure inputs on these fields being discussed if no synthetics are being used. I'd just like all the context.


I like follow 3 steps below:
1. chemical side of soils - focus on PH and base saturations over time
2. biological side - work to drive up bacterial and fungi-dominated soils to help in carbon sequestration and nutrient cycling ability. Not to mention the glomalin production of fungi that further helps aggregate soils on the biological side, driving better porosity for air and water flow.
3. physical soil type- what are we starting with and how can/do we need to handle fertility based on this to create biomass that will best fit our needs?

PS - I am not anti tillage. I also LOVE CA in the right situations where the CA base sat % is below 60%. In lower CEC soils, I like to see MG in the right rations from a chemical perspective.

Much if not all soils are a matter of perspective. There is no disputing that tillage works, the question is for what duration and with what level of inputs to continue the sustain outputs/yields.

The goal for most food plotters is to reduce the need for inputs and slow down OM mineralization in the hopes of increasing microbial biomass, soil aggregation, and hopefully attractiveness to the game.

I don't chime in all that often but I really enjoy the forum and hope that this type of information is enjoyable for some! Thanks for having me guys!

Albert
 
New book, and it’s a doozie. If you ever wanted to have the largest library of weeds and the most in depth analysis of the soil conditions that make those plants thrive, this is it. There are around 2,000 weeds ID’d in this book, and 23 ratings analyzed for each weed.

I spent an hour thumbing thru my top 12 most prevalent natives. After reading those 12, the common denominator across every single one became obvious.

Low calcium.

e1c27f1a14fa26625933e445362874f3.jpg



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Here's another from Glen Rabenberg. Few more good points in here. He talks about raising brix levels in plants so high that the when bugs eat the foilage, they'll die.

24:38 - 26:16 you can catch the neat part about brix. I wonder if that isn't the ticket to having cabbage and brassicas so healthy they cannot be defoliated by bugs.

 
New book, and it’s a doozie. If you ever wanted to have the largest library of weeds and the most in depth analysis of the soil conditions that make those plants thrive, this is it. There are around 2,000 weeds ID’d in this book, and 23 ratings analyzed for each weed.

I spent an hour thumbing thru my top 12 most prevalent natives. After reading those 12, the common denominator across every single one became obvious.

Low calcium.

e1c27f1a14fa26625933e445362874f3.jpg

Any takeaways when a plot is heavy in daisy fleabane and goldenrod?
 
kinda spendy book there SD. But I suppose a quart of herbicide ain’t cheap either Ca you show a representative page from that book? May need to invest
 
Any takeaways when a plot is heavy in daisy fleabane and goldenrod?

That’s a low calcium soil. That’s the same array of natives I have.


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kinda spendy book there SD. But I suppose a quart of herbicide ain’t cheap either Ca you show a representative page from that book? May need to invest

Foggy and I have been talking behind the scenes troubleshooting his top 10. I grabbed pics of the plants we were talking about. Here’s the horsetail page.

VH-very high
H-high
L-low
VL-very low

Whatever you see in the box indicates what the soil condition is. So for horsetail, it’s most prevalent in very low calcium soils.

Back when I used fertilizer, I started with low calcium and then poured on a high rate of 0-0-60. The spring after, I had low CA and now high K, and I had the most impressive stand of horsetail I’d ever seen.

cc4af3dacb875a397692b02cc9c9239e.jpg



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kinda spendy book there SD. But I suppose a quart of herbicide ain’t cheap either Ca you show a representative page from that book? May need to invest

Way cheaper at Acres USA. That’s where I got mine.



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Way cheaper at Acres USA. That’s where I got mine.



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Thanks.....just ordered this book. Your sure good at ideas on spending my money. lol. So much to learn....so little time.
 


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I've been meaning to talk about Sulfur. I talked with Bob Hunt (seed company) about lime and fertilizer one day....years back.....and he told me to be certain to include some sulfur in my fertilizers. I did buy a bag of pure sulfur and spread it over some new ground I had broke after logging. Smelled like fresh matches. That plot has always done exceeding well for some reason and remains good today. I wonder if that sulfur application gave it a kick start? The guy at the feed and fertilizer store told me the only place he sells Sulfur are to folks to spread it over raspberries. Not sure what role sulfur plays in all this?
 
I've been meaning to talk about Sulfur. I talked with Bob Hunt (seed company) about lime and fertilizer one day....years back.....and he told me to be certain to include some sulfur in my fertilizers. I did buy a bag of pure sulfur and spread it over some new ground I had broke after logging. Smelled like fresh matches. That plot has always done exceeding well for some reason and remains good today. I wonder if that sulfur application gave it a kick start? The guy at the feed and fertilizer store told me the only place he sells Sulfur are to folks to spread it over raspberries. Not sure what role sulfur plays in all this?

Sulfate (that's the plant available form of sulfur) is the flavor nutrient. I have personally seen deer favor beans with good sulfate in the soil over beans without. It's the building block of protein formation in plants. It's a key to clover muscling out a space among grass. It's very important in nitrogen efficiency in plants. Somebody somewhere did some corn trials where they studied reduced rates of N combined with added rates of sulfate. They were able to show equal yields to high nitrogen-no sulfate corn with lower nitrogen-added sulfate corn. I don't know what fertilizers cost anymore, but I'd imagine sulfate is 5-10% of the cost of nitrogen pound for pound. I think that might have been in an old green cover seed book from years ago.

This is where I'd throw in another pitch for gypsum, but in this case, it's also among the fertilizers you don't need once you get to high biomass, high diversity, stay-green in your plots. If you have the biomass, it's there. It's the 5th macro-mineral nutrient in plant tonnage, and you will cycle it through your residue into your next crop. When your residue is rotting at the slow rate your next plants take it up, you'll never run out. When you have a high earthworm population, you'll have ample sulfate in your soil.
 
Can you give me a teaser on what that book says about pigweed? It seems like it is prevalent in my food plots no matter the property.
 
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