Soil fundamentals library

[Foggy47]

You can get that back far quicker than that dude. The old way of looking at it was to try to calculate the above and below ground biomass produced by plants and then multiply by .4 to determine how much carbon you'd build up. The flaw with that thinking is that plants are 100% efficient, meaning they'd don't exude wastes like any other living organisms. If this were a cow, we'd assume we just feed it, and it never poops or pees.

This is also why June 21st is such a big deal. That's peak solar output day, and most conventional production ground is bare (not canopied) at that time so that sun is wasted. Big cows (plants) poop and pee way more than little cows. If you're green all season, you'll likely go 3+ times faster than working ground to build OM because you don't miss out on spring and fall growing days, and you can utilize every inch of ground.

Have a read at Christine Jones' paper on the liquid carbon pathway: https://www.amazingcarbon.com/PDF/JONES-LiquidCarbonPathway(July08).pdf

Lot's of $2 words thrown about here. I need simple terms to understand some of this stuff. Some of these soil chemistry theories and practices are too hard for my untrained brain to understand......kinda like electronic stuff. I know it works but I may never fully understand how it works. I suppose I just need to get to the bottom line. Sometimes, I wish I was not so mechanical, and more biological by nature. Grin.

EDIT: And this ^ may be why we have so many problems getting farmers on board with new ag methods. 2 cents.

 

[SD51555]

Lot's of $2 words thrown about here. I need simple terms to understand some of this stuff. Some of these soil chemistry theories and practices are too hard for my untrained brain to understand......kinda like electronic stuff. I know it works but I may never fully understand how it works. I suppose I just need to get to the bottom line. Sometimes, I wish I was not so mechanical, and more biological by nature. Grin.

EDIT: And this ^ may be why we have so many problems getting farmers on board with new ag methods. 2 cents.

My cow analogy didn't even help? I was pretty proud of that for thinking on the fly.

 

[matinc]

Hey catscrath curious about animal drool

 

[matinc]

Got 200 pounds of buckwheat and 100 pounds of cc6 6 different types of summer release forage for $320 and that includes shipping. Curious what the panel says.

 

[matinc]

Sd5 I was given an article to read by cat scratch about mowing n nor mowing clover due to saliva

 

[Catscratch]

So sorry guys, I didn't even know I was part of this discussion. It's true, herbivore grazing stimulates plant growth; higher biomass, more tillering, and more buds. Mechanical clipping doesn't produce the same plant response. Lots of stuff out there about how plants and animals have adapted together for mutual benefit. Of course this is only useful if you have a way to put a herd on your plots or habitat at the appropriate times.

 

[Telemark]

There’s a place I go track deer with my dogs where a guy owns about 2000 acres and he has roughly 250 acres of that in big ag fields that he can plant anything he wants in……In that type of situation I could see where it would benefit someone to worry about planting “summer plots”……However, with the average guy who has a 1 acre plot here and there…..what difference are you really making on the deer herd by trying to grow specialty crops during the summer months??....The quantity of forage being produced isnt enough to impact “herd health” so in my opinion you’re not really accomplishing anything by trying to get fancy with it……You’re just as well off to let nature grow natural vegetation during the summer months……Its almost a little naïve to think that we can choose a better plant to fit the needs of the soil that what nature chooses in most situations

Planting summer plots does a few things, the main benefits in my mind are as follows:

First, it allows plotters to feed deer during the summer. The abundance and variety of nutrition in the summer months can improve the health of the local deer, which can result in improved fecundity and recruitment for the does and increased muscle mass and antler size for bucks.

Second, it can help to improve soil by planting a complimentary variety of forbs that will accumulate various nutrients in the soil while improving the soil structure and maintaining a diverse biological component.

Third, it keeps these processes going through the summer months, which for southerners can be a stress period for deer, while for northerners it keeps the plot going with something beneficial to the soil during the period before they are ready to plant their fall plots, which are the main draw for the hunting season.

Much of this is dependent on location as well as other factors. Personally, I don't plant summer plots, but if I had the time and resources, I probably would.

 

[Foggy47]

Planting summer plots does a few things, the main benefits in my mind are as follows:

First, it allows plotters to feed deer during the summer. The abundance and variety of nutrition in the summer months can improve the health of the local deer, which can result in improved fecundity and recruitment for the does and increased muscle mass and antler size for bucks.

Second, it can help to improve soil by planting a complimentary variety of forbs that will accumulate various nutrients in the soil while improving the soil structure and maintaining a diverse biological component.

Third, it keeps these processes going through the summer months, which for southerners can be a stress period for deer, while for northerners it keeps the plot going with something beneficial to the soil during the period before they are ready to plant their fall plots, which are the main draw for the hunting season.

Much of this is dependent on location as well as other factors. Personally, I don't plant summer plots, but if I had the time and resources, I probably would.

Adding to this ^ is the fact that typically.....when the snow finally recedes in MN there will still be little to eat for a few more weeks. The exception is a good crop of winter rye which restarts it's growth and nutrition cycle well before any other natural green vegetation is available. These few weeks head start is crucial in many years.

Also the winter rye I plant provides cover for fawns at a period when the bears and coyotes are hunting those fawns (and other wildlife). These few weeks of a running start can be huge to prey animals in the north.

While I only have 110 acres and ten acres of plots.....I feel I have made an impact on the neighborhood population.

 

[Catscratch]

Adding to the soil discussion I'm considering adding a new plot to the place that's smack dab in the center of a cattle pasture. Gates on both ends so a feed truck can drive straight through. Bale feed daily in Feb and March. Graze weeds down when needed. Use the stomp method to plant seed. Sun hemp in the summer, wheat in the winter. The herd usage could be changed daily. Would probably have to have a 6ft tall fence so that as soil builds it doesn't get completely buried. :)


Took a pic this morning... Just imagine all that saliva, organic matter, and urea, and nitrogen sitting there!

 

[Foggy47]

Adding to the soil discussion I'm considering adding a new plot to the place that's smack dab in the center of a cattle pasture. Gates on both ends so a feed truck can drive straight through. Bale feed daily in Feb and March. Graze weeds down when needed. Use the stomp method to plant seed. Sun hemp in the summer, wheat in the winter. The herd usage could be changed daily. Would probably have to have a 6ft tall fence so that as soil builds it doesn't get completely buried. :)


Took a pic this morning... Just imagine all that saliva, organic matter, and urea, and nitrogen sitting there!
View attachment 62255

You certainly have a full day Cat. How much time do you spend working cattle each day / week?

 

[Catscratch]

You certainly have a full day Cat. How much time do you spend working cattle each day / week?

Funny you should ask Foggy, the wife mentioned that I'd been busy so I added up hrs; 72 hrs spent at work this week, 4hrs helping at my parents today, and another hour at the inlaws this evening. Still had time to spread 24 tons of gravel on the driveway, find 8 sheds, and run 2 miles. Just ate for the first time today though, now it's time to watch old re-runs and rest up for next week.

 

[Foggy47]

Funny you should ask Foggy, the wife mentioned that I'd been busy so I added up hrs; 72 hrs spent at work this week, 4hrs helping at my parents today, and another hour at the inlaws this evening. Still had time to spread 24 tons of gravel on the driveway, find 8 sheds, and run 2 miles. Just ate for the first time today though, now it's time to watch old re-runs and rest up for next week.

Well.....your allot younger than I and in good shape. However you will need to alter this level of work at some point in the future. Good on you for going hard into this challenge.....but moderation will be the key in time to come. Promise. ;). I was once young, bullet proof and ten feet tall too.....it changes. Grin.

 

[matinc]

Foggy I am sure we're both not 18 any more. Catscratch your the man. So impressive

 

[Catscratch]

I sent Foggy a message that goes into details. I'm just in a situation where work needs more out of me than normal and both my and my wife's parents have some health problems and need some extra help. I'm old-ish (50), wish I was 18 again (sort of).

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have two goals when planting any food plot. Some of the plots I plant are to feed the soil for the next plot and some of them are to feed the deer. Rotations are a must. I have planted a fair amount of clover over the years. I started out planting decent sized plots that needed to be mowed off two times a year. Since then my clover plantings are much smaller and I dont mow them. I made sure to plant them big enough that they aren't eaten to the dirt but small enough that the deer are able to do all of the mowing for me.

 

[matinc]

St curious on your OM level to have growing clover.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

St curious on your OM level to have growing clover.

I haven't conducted a soil test in several years. If memory serves me my organic matter at that time was around 3 with a CEC of 12. I have been doing mostly no till so i would assume that both of those numbers have since increased. Also noteworthy, at the time of my last soil test my PH was 7.6 ( again, if memory serves me )

 

[matinc]

S T OM at 3 and rising. Curious did you lime it up or was that how your soil was

 

[omicron1792]

Adding to the soil discussion I'm considering adding a new plot to the place that's smack dab in the center of a cattle pasture. Gates on both ends so a feed truck can drive straight through. Bale feed daily in Feb and March. Graze weeds down when needed. Use the stomp method to plant seed. Sun hemp in the summer, wheat in the winter. The herd usage could be changed daily. Would probably have to have a 6ft tall fence so that as soil builds it doesn't get completely buried. :)


Took a pic this morning... Just imagine all that saliva, organic matter, and urea, and nitrogen sitting there!
View attachment 62255

I think you’ll have to have a way to keep them out at times, but read @Baker on here about him using cows to terminate his crops for next planting.

 

[SD51555]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783639824861430226