Soil fundamentals library
- Thread starter SD51555
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SD51555
5 year old buck +
Before you rip into something that big, do you have a recent complete soil test? Also, what is your goal?
Increase pH?
Increase calcium?
Increase sulfate?
This is where a well placed $100 in soil tests could save you a boat load of time and money.
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farmlegend
5 year old buck +
See comment 175 on this thread, 9/12/2024.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Not to completely reopen this, but how is stuff growing now? I like your 6.4 pH.
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davidhelmly
5 year old buck +
I agree totally, a spreader truck or pull behind spreader trailer would be a must.
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
farmlegend
5 year old buck +
2024 was year three of doing multi-species cover crops on this nine acres(in two plots, separated by a 30ft wide brush fence row, the north plot being three acres, with six acres on the south side). I started with essentially biologically dead soil which had been tilled to death by rowcrop farming(corn/soys/wheat) for several decades. My objective is to restore the soil and grow food plots to attract deer each year so I can shoot lots of does from the gun stands that overlook these plots, and to serve as destination plots for us to bowhunt travel corridors to them. Soils are clayish, despite showing relatively low cation exchange numbers, and quite compacted. The gypsum would hopefully relieve some compaction so as to not rely completely on biology (in the form of continued cover crop plantings) to produce good dirt, and hopefully accelerate the soil reclamation process so it doesn't take twenty years.
Last year was a poor growing season - I got insane amounts of precipitation for weeks immediately following planting, which drowned a lot of what I had planted on June 10. Glad that japanese millet was in the mix, that was pretty much the only species out of fifteen or so that did pretty well. When we hit August, a drought commenced, and we got essentially no rain until mid-October or so. I broadcast cereal grains upon it (along with some crimson clover, radish/turnip) in mid-August, and this wound up being an utter failure due to the lack of rain. Dumped large quantities of cereals on in again in October, of which a fair amount eventually snaked its way through the invading nutsedge and grasses which largely took over good portions of the plot.
About half of the south plot is actually doing decent, as is is somewhat better drained than the rest of this ground. In addition to the jap millet, a fair amount of sorghum, soybeans, black beans, and cowpeas showed up, and a smidge of buckwheat, turnip, and kale. Zero black oil sunflower, safflower, flax, or grazing corn made an appearance at all, anywhere.
At this point, I plan on continuing with the multi-species cover crops each year.
The pH levels on this ground are the lowest I've tested on my farm; my established food plots on the other side of my farm show up in the 6.6-7.2 range.
On a positive note - even in the marginally performing north plot(3a.), I can see that infiltration is better than it was when I began. When it was in rowcrops, during a wet fall, there was a fair amount of surface water across much of it, and walking across the sloppy, ponded, greasy clay was a pain in the ass whenever I had to go in to retrieve a deer. Now I can walk upon the vegetation (mostly invading grasses and the nutsedge) during the late season with ease, and there's now only two notable wet spots.
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SD51555
5 year old buck +
Compacted clay sucks. I don't know that gypsum alone will fix that, or tillage. That being said, I have played with stupid high rates of gypsum to knock out sedge, and it's worked, but I don't think it's feasible at scale.
Sourcing sucks too. Last idea I have is to see if you have a golf course in your immediate area. Odds are if they could have clay problems too. Those guys have perfectly sized equipment for food plots, but depending on who owns it and runs it, they may not even talk to you. A phone call is free, and 'no' never killed anyone. I'd see if they'd spread gypsum for ya. They probably have the product and the equipment, and it could give them something to do in the off season.
jsasker007
5 year old buck +
My .02 cents would be to plant/broadcast radish,buckwheat,clover,chicory and add winter rye in the fall.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
I never share my personal stuff on any threads but my own. However - I see a lot of misinformation, especially in the food plot world on “salts”. I thought I’d share some quick facts about such.
Hope it is useful.
Hope it is useful.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
I wanted to follow up on this from doing some research. I talked with a gypsum producer today that recommended 200#/acre if going to pelletized versus 2000#/acre on the loose applications. His reasons were that the pellets are so compacted with gypsum you're really getting nearly 10x in usable product pound for pound.
This makes the pelletized option way more feasible IMO as well as cost effective. He said most farmers are mixing in the gypsum with their granular NPK ammendments and the pelletized stuff breaks down just fine without soil incorporation.
farmlegend
5 year old buck +
I appreciate this info. However, in 25 years of foodplotting, and significant experience with lime (not gypsum), application, I have never heard this. Do you have a link or other reference to support this 10:1 thing?
I’m hoping it’s on the money!
I’m hoping it’s on the money!
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Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Sounds like the same line people give for pelletized lime vs pulverized.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
I think he’s getting density and volume misconstrued with active ingredient.
200lbs of gypsum pelletized is more dense, therefore takes up less volume. However, it’s still 200lbs of gypsum.
So a lb of gypsum is a lb of gypsum - the bulk density will change depending on packing - which will alter the volume that particular product takes up.
So you don’t have more gypsum - you just have more space that starting weight of gypsum was taking up pre pellet form.
Hope this makes sense.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Yeah, I'm not sure. I asked him to source his claim because like @farmlegend mentioned, I've read this before about lime and it's always been 2:1 or 3:1, I've never heard a 10:1 claim.
He referred me to their gypsum research library but didn't site any of the articles there. I tried to use a few keywords but couldn't find anything related to his claim, although there were some decently interesting studies listed in there.
www.gypsoil.com/research-library
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Man, i've heard a handful of folks be told by the Co-op they only need 10% of the pelletized lime vs ag lime. One example from the forum.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
please excuse me if this isn’t wanted but I want to added that lime is different because of the various mfg processes that can lead to less or more potent forms of lime. If we are compared lb for lb the same CCE of each type of lime, we can reasonably say that the lb for lb difference and impact on soils will be negligible. However, if we were comparing a higher cce lime to a lower cce ag lime - than in that case one could make the argument for the pellet lime being more effective per lb basis.Man, i've heard a handful of folks be told by the Co-op they only need 10% of the pelletized lime vs ag lime. One example from the forum.
This then would come down to partial size, reactivity of the lime put down, moisture in soil, etc.
So although i don’t think we could come up with a 10x difference- I do think the lime argument could be made for more dense, less volume, equal or better effectiveness - due to the varying options available for ph altering via CAO, Ca(oh)2, etc.
I don’t believe this to be the case for gypsum as the active ingredient is the same CaSO4.2H2O
Hope this is useful!!
