Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
I've only seen a couple Ag lime source test results but CCE seemed to vary at most around 20ish% but usually less IIRC. That's a far cry from 90%.
Soil fundamentals library
- Thread starter SD51555
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I've only seen a couple Ag lime source test results but CCE seemed to vary at most around 20ish% but usually less IIRC. That's a far cry from 90%.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Yes sir. Exactly. I don’t believe you’ll find that variance (I could be wrong). I’ve see some
Suggestions around the particle size and such but again, I don’t believe we’ll find a 10:1 variance that is often promoted at the local garden center.
I mostly wanted to highlight that although this is similar in nature to the conversation around gypsum, the chemical structure and density to volume argument that could be made with lime, doesn’t seem to fit.
As always - hope the input is useful. I love this forum and following along - altho I don’t comment as often.
Keep up the great convos.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe.
Here's how I'd approach this given it's become a real pain to source this and all the farm coop guys ain't never heard nothing bout it.
I'd get 3 bags from menards and come home and test some spots around your fields. A single 40 lb bag on an area 55 feet by 55 feet mimics a 1/2 ton rate. If you're gonna get a truck to come do this, I'd do at least a half ton. Mark it out with posts, spread that bag, and let it get rained in once good, and wait a month.
If you don't see the plants unavoidably greener, taller, better looking, and more favored by deer if that plant is in browse season, I wouldn't spend the money.
davidhelmly
5 year old buck +
He sounds like a pellet salesman.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Ironically the only thing he couldn't sell me was pellets. He could sell private sales in bulk but has some agreement with distributors/vendors that he couldn't sell me pellets.
that's a good deal - what lab is that? I think I paid $21 for a U of MN soil test that I believe was just organic matter %, pH, P and K.
RGrizzzz
Administrator
Soil Season Guide
Overview of test packages and sampling procedures during fall sampling season
midwestlabs.com
SD51555
5 year old buck +
My samples will get to the lab on Thursday. I don't know if I'll get results this week, but they'll come eventually. I tested three plots, and specific spots in those plots to seek info:
Yard plot: Tested whole plot see what is happening after a few applications of calcitic lime and high rates of gypsum.
Road plot: Just tested that spot that seems compacted and is showing moss. It's also had a treatment of 1-ton rate calcitic lime and a half ton rate of gypsum.
North plot complex: Checking where I dropped a foot of pure clay over the top of my topsoil. It's gotten a few calcium treatments. I'm curious to see composition and OM since doing that. The OM in that clay started at 0.6%.
Yard plot: Tested whole plot see what is happening after a few applications of calcitic lime and high rates of gypsum.
Road plot: Just tested that spot that seems compacted and is showing moss. It's also had a treatment of 1-ton rate calcitic lime and a half ton rate of gypsum.
North plot complex: Checking where I dropped a foot of pure clay over the top of my topsoil. It's gotten a few calcium treatments. I'm curious to see composition and OM since doing that. The OM in that clay started at 0.6%.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
My test results are in.
Road Plot
This is the same plot from the sweet clover thread. This is also the one that had back to back massive years of biomass grown on it with no tillage or spraying and has been kept green since the summer of 2022. I was surprised by the OM reading. I figured it'd be north of 4, but I didn't imagine it'd go 5.6. It's also at 85.8% calcium, and I've been chasing that with calcitic lime and gypsum. It's good to know I'm there and can quit with the gypsum all together. That much OM alone will release enough sulfate sulfur to make crop from here forward. No signs of compaction on this soil test. May end up biting the bullet on a penetrometer to keep investigating.
Yard Plot
This is where I've been toying with freakishly high rates of gypsum to snuff out a burdock problem. I'm puzzled by the high rate of available P. I have never applied P to this plot. The gypsum also points to the high calcium number and high sulfur number. This plot may have been the site of an barn long ago. There was a junk pile right next to it that points towards a fallen down barn and everything just got pushed in a pile. If it was a cow yard, that could point to the high P. The junk pile is full of iron, wire, rocks, old lumber, and broken glass. I moved the pile away, leveled the surface, and have been using that old dirt for my gardens.
North Plot
This is the one with subsoil laid over the topsoil about a foot thick. I'm surprised this registered 2.7% OM. It tested 0.6% when I moved it 4 years ago. This one has gotten maintenance gypsum, and calcitic lime to raise the pH. That clay is very high in magnesium, so I'm not surprised I'm only at 72% calcium base saturation. When I tested it before amending it, it was in the low 60's for calcium. Lots of room to keep applying gypsum, but I'm in no hurry to boost it, I'll just keep on with a maintenance application.
Road Plot
This is the same plot from the sweet clover thread. This is also the one that had back to back massive years of biomass grown on it with no tillage or spraying and has been kept green since the summer of 2022. I was surprised by the OM reading. I figured it'd be north of 4, but I didn't imagine it'd go 5.6. It's also at 85.8% calcium, and I've been chasing that with calcitic lime and gypsum. It's good to know I'm there and can quit with the gypsum all together. That much OM alone will release enough sulfate sulfur to make crop from here forward. No signs of compaction on this soil test. May end up biting the bullet on a penetrometer to keep investigating.
Yard Plot
This is where I've been toying with freakishly high rates of gypsum to snuff out a burdock problem. I'm puzzled by the high rate of available P. I have never applied P to this plot. The gypsum also points to the high calcium number and high sulfur number. This plot may have been the site of an barn long ago. There was a junk pile right next to it that points towards a fallen down barn and everything just got pushed in a pile. If it was a cow yard, that could point to the high P. The junk pile is full of iron, wire, rocks, old lumber, and broken glass. I moved the pile away, leveled the surface, and have been using that old dirt for my gardens.
North Plot
This is the one with subsoil laid over the topsoil about a foot thick. I'm surprised this registered 2.7% OM. It tested 0.6% when I moved it 4 years ago. This one has gotten maintenance gypsum, and calcitic lime to raise the pH. That clay is very high in magnesium, so I'm not surprised I'm only at 72% calcium base saturation. When I tested it before amending it, it was in the low 60's for calcium. Lots of room to keep applying gypsum, but I'm in no hurry to boost it, I'll just keep on with a maintenance application.
Looks like the micros are your lowest hole. Someone recently linked a video on another thread that was promoting micros. Don't think they ever said if there was iron in it or not.
This guy makes a product without iron, but no idea how cost effective it would be at food plot scale vs what the hippies are growing. https://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-big-6-soil-micronutrients-humic-acid?variant=35465776338
This guy makes a product without iron, but no idea how cost effective it would be at food plot scale vs what the hippies are growing. https://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-big-6-soil-micronutrients-humic-acid?variant=35465776338
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
That is really a high price, we do micros with gypsum and humics base- we leave out iron due to how many tests I review and the extremely commonly high FE content. We charge $99 for 45lbs, recommend 25lbs per acre, and that includes shipping. I wont link it as I don't want to upset mods.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Al, can you post the guaranteed analysis?
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
Great-looking tests!
Are you concerned at all with the antagonism of the high CA? I'd be interested in a tissue test of the cover crops to see if they show any signs of low or less-than-desirable micros, mg, and K. What are your thoughts on this?
Have you considered doing a TND test? I am very interested in the total nutrient availability in your soils vs. the PPM showing, specifically in the K and P. Dr. Rick Mulvaney has some interesting research on K that parallels Dr. Christine Jones' research on P. The long/short of it is that most soils have ample P and K, but they are just tied up!
Last year, I tested the top 6 inches of soil, which consistently performs very well for me. The standard test showed very low PPM P (9.6)—the TND showed 500 lbs. Similarly, the K was 90PPM—the TND 1201 lbs. That is only in the top 6 inches, which doesn't account for any nutrient cycling or increased P and K availability from deeper in the soil profile, which I am always striving to achieve.
I am far from anti-fertilizer, but I think that for many, we can accomplish a lot with biology, timing, balancing PH and saturations, and lastly (if you want to use synthetic fertilizer), doing so with proper timing and understanding of nutrient/ion mobility in the soils.
Buckhunter10
5 year old buck +
I will send you a DM. I dont want to steal this thread or upset an admin.
