Should I go head to head fair fight with RCG?

[SD51555]

Lots of windshield time today. Had a thought hit me as I was pondering the spruce thread we've had the last couple days.

When I bought black spruce and red osier dogwood from Itasca, they were very tall (I thought) for plug trees. I've got an area about two acres that is just solid reed canary grass. I won't spray or burn, and really have no way to mow. If I come to terms with the likelihood of slow growth at best. Could a person plant those two in RCG and not have them get smothered by duff in fall or shaded out? I've completely lost austrian pines in it that had 4x4 fabric squares. But those trees were only 10 inches tall at best.

I would also entertain the idea of dragging an upside down harrow to knock the grass down between the rows a number of times through the summer.

Here's the archive pics of the plugs.

 

[SD51555]

I should mention this is otherwise ideal soil for these plants.

 

[JSE]

I have the same situation with RCG. I planted white pine, balsam and red maple. All three struggled many died, the red maple did the best. We have sprayed it, burned it, had cows graze it and after each attempt it came back and stunted the trees. Last year I decided to keep an area mowed and plant in the mowed area. As soon as I can push a mower in I keep it cut like it is a lawn. This spring I planted red maple and swamp white oak through black lawn fabric with pea gravel. Wrapped each tree with window screening for the mice and then a wire to keep the deer out. I only cut around the trees and not the whole area. Every tree I planted is growing and looking healthy. Once the ground dries out I have been cutting it with my riding mower. The key to beating RCG is not letting it get tall. It is a pain cutting it all the time ( it grows very fast ) but I am hoping once the trees get established and start to shade the RCG the trees will shade it back. I planted the trees close together. Just large enough to get the mower between the wires. I had to wrap the wire with the black fabric to reduce the grass clipping blowing and settling on the pea gravel. With the fabric and pea gravel around the base of the trees no RCG is inside the wire and I can weed wack close to the the wire. A lot of work but this is the only way I can get trees to grow. The area with RCG is a waste of space once it layers down in late fall. Each time I have cut the grass I cut a little bigger area, next year I will expand into another small area and start to connect each years planting

This is probably not what you want to hear but this is the only way I have found to get trees growing. Good luck

 

[wiscwhip]

I thought I posted this last evening before I logged off, but I saw it was still not posted yet this morning, must have missed the button.

To answer your question, NO, you should not have a fair, head to head fight with RCG, you should wage all out war on it in the areas you are looking to plant anything, and ALL is fair in love and war. There is nothing "fair" about a grass that can grow multiple feet tall in a matter of a few weeks and smother everything in it's path. I have done a few plantings like this on a buddies property in a large reed canary swamp(these are the ones I have talked about in the past that are shaped like a horseshoe). The areas we did were the "highest" spots in the swamp, like 6" - 12" higher, small islands if you will. Initially mowed, sprayed, sprayed again, planted, and then mowed continuously for 2 full summers after that and he lost minimal amounts of his plantings. We just planted back into the failed areas until we had something growing in all the areas with dead plants. I would say on one of the "humps", he easily has four or five different "year classes" of his plantings just from replacing a few dead ones each year. ROD and button bush competed the best, likely due to their faster growth rates and ability to compete in that type of environment, some of the black spruce and balsam fir struggled but they were not total fails by any means. It is very much a situation like JSE posted above, you MUST keep the RCG from overtaking the areas directly adjacent to the plantings. No fabric or gravel on the stuff we did, but very frequent and CAREFUL mowing and even hand pulling/clipping of weeds right up to the base of the plantings. Not fun or easy in any way, but deer magnets 14 years later. He has deer bedding out there almost constantly now. The only real exception is the dead of winter after we get heavy snow that knocks the RCG over and buries it, that is the only time those areas do not hold deer on a daily basis, as they have to traverse a hundred yards of wide open snow covered RCG to get to them. 3 years ago he had pics of a 160" class buck bedding out on the smaller "island" for the whole summer until one day right before the bow opener they found it dead on the road about 400 yards south of his place.

 

[j-bird]

Who fights fair? RCG sounds like a pretty big dude - you may have to fight "dirty" if you want to win.....otherwise you may get your butt handed to you!

 

[SD51555]

I was able to get a few trees up through it myself, but it was a multi-year battle to get it done, and I just don't want to fight it that much. I had to bring my own topsoil in because the sod layer was like a six inch sponge.

 

[SD51555]

What about rolling out a 6' wide stretch of fabric and punching cuttings into it?

 

[sandbur]

My best success has been to grow spruce in another location and dig them when they are almost knee high. I carry them in with buckets and still expect to loose some.

I have one area that I clipped, let green up and sprayed with roundup. Repeat as need over two summers.

Third spring, I put down heavy black plastic (used silage bags) and put native willow cuttings through the plastic. I removed some of the black plastic after two years. My recommendation is don't remove it with willows.
I also planted a staggered row of spruce along the inside edge of the plastic and lost about half of them.
Walk that area of RC and see if you can find any tiny areas of other grass. Use those areas to plant the spruce.

Spruce, willows, and RC are great bedding. Any structure will help keep the RC from going down in the winter.

I will bet that dropping trees in the winter and then pulling them out into RC with a tractor can generate great summer/fall bedding.

 

[wiscwhip]

What about rolling out a 6' wide stretch of fabric and punching cuttings into it?

I'm pretty sure that would work SD, as others have reported success with that method. It still seems to be a struggle in some cases, especially with plantings at the edge of the plastic, as the 5'+ RCG will reach for the light and shade over the plantings within a foot or so of the edge. Plant into the fabric and mow a swath along each edge and that might work best in that situation to keep the competition as far from the plantings as possible. That seems like it would be far easier than what we did with no fabric and having to mow/pull weeds right up to the trees.

 

[SD51555]

I think that may be the winner. Like I mentioned earlier, I've seen that stuff completely swallow trees that had a 4' square around them. I'd likely get a 300' roll and do 2 strips of 150' with an overlap so I've got about a 150' x 10' strip and put 2 dense rows centered on the fabric. I can get back there with a four wheeler before crops go in, so I'd be able to drag something through there before hand to help bust up the stems and get the fabric a little closer to the ground.

 

[SD51555]

My best success has been to grow spruce in another location and dig them when they are almost knee high. I carry them in with buckets and still expect to loose some.

I have one area that I clipped, let green up and sprayed with roundup. Repeat as need over two summers.

Third spring, I put down heavy black plastic (used silage bags) and put native willow cuttings through the plastic. I removed some of the black plastic after two years. My recommendation is don't remove it with willows.
I also planted a staggered row of spruce along the inside edge of the plastic and lost about half of them.
Walk that area of RC and see if you can find any tiny areas of other grass. Use those areas to plant the spruce.

Spruce, willows, and RC are great bedding. Any structure will help keep the RC from going down in the winter.

I will bet that dropping trees in the winter and then pulling them out into RC with a tractor can generate great summer/fall bedding.

I do have some 3" or so ash trees that I've been meaning to wean out near there that might be perfect candidates for support out there. I like that idea.

 

[wiscwhip]

I think that may be the winner. Like I mentioned earlier, I've seen that stuff completely swallow trees that had a 4' square around them. I'd likely get a 300' roll and do 2 strips of 150' with an overlap so I've got about a 150' x 10' strip and put 2 dense rows centered on the fabric. I can get back there with a four wheeler before crops go in, so I'd be able to drag something through there before hand to help bust up the stems and get the fabric a little closer to the ground.

Could you rent a pull behind brush hog, like a swisher mower, to run through there? That might be the best case scenario.

 

[MN Slick]

If you smoke RCG with a hot dose (and I mean hot) of gly right now, it will suppress the stuff for quite awhile next year. I did that last fall, and in some of the areas I hit the RCG has not come back...other weeds did though.

How hot are you talking? I have a 5 gallon back pack sprayer I might fire up this weekend. How much gly should I add to 4-5 gallons of water? Thanks

 

[SD51555]

Could you rent a pull behind brush hog, like a swisher mower, to run through there? That might be the best case scenario.

Could, but wouldn't that leave me with a bunch of thick stem spikes? I've got my eye on being able to get that fabric as close to the ground as possible without punching holes in it.

 

[wiscwhip]

If you have any amount of real moisture in that RC stand or it drains into larger bodies of water somewhere, do your fish, frogs, and other amphibians a favor and get yourself some AquaMaster or other aquatic safe gly product. Regular gly products have other chemicals in them that play hell with aquatic lifeforms. Make sure you use an aquatic safe surfactant as well.

 

[wiscwhip]

Could, but wouldn't that leave me with a bunch of thick stem spikes? I've got my eye on being able to get that fabric as close to the ground as possible without punching holes in it.

When do you plan on planting this? This fall yet? Or next spring? If it is this fall you could spray once and mow 2 weeks later, then put down your plantings. If you do this in the spring, spray now, mow in 2 weeks to chop the stems to thatch, come back in spring and spray again, then lay your plastic and plant. Either would work, depends on your timeframe and how good of an initial kill you want on that RC before you plant.

 

[JSE]

If you can mow it close to the ground and then use plastic or fabric. If it is too wet for a mower pack in a weed wacker. I went with pea gravel to protect the fabric and keep the mice from digging in. Make sure to wrap the trees with window screening, 5 years after the first planting the mice girdled the best trees, I stopped trapping weasels after that. After trial and error I think mowing, fabric and pea gravel have worked the best. Spraying knocked it back but after a year to two I couldn't tell where I sprayed. Mowing is the only long term solution

 

[SD51555]

How about making my own 6' squares out of a roll of John's woven fabric and just putting in a dozen or two weeping willows instead? Maybe with a 6' tube as well right off the bat to keep the critters off? If that works, maybe down the road if the willows can smother that canary grass I could go back later and cut them down and punch in some black spruce.

 

[Freeborn]

I have a similar problem and I am thinking cardboard. I would like to find 2-3' square cardboard and put that down. Mow in the spring and then cardboard.

I have had RC partially grow through fabric.

 

[SD51555]

Double the fabric? On John's site weeping is listed as high anerobic tolerance.