Winning the battle to establish conifers

[BuckSutherland]

And a LONG battle it has been...


Bought our property in 2012, after it was select cut and lost in foreclosure (mostly mature red oak). For the next 6 years we attempted to plant conifers to thicken the woods up cause we had very few. Mostly small plugs 4, 6 and 10s. We planted thousands of little plugs cause we were gonna overwhelm the woods with numbers. What a colossal waste of time and money that ended up being. All of those little plug were either swallowed up by the canopy or grazed off by the deer for little snacks. Hardly one of them survived in 6 years out of 1000s.


Fast forward to spring of 2019. I started buying the biggest plugs I could get from Itasca greenhouse and planting with a shovel. Trees did great in 2019, especially the ones that I laid some cardboard around the trees and killed the grass. Protecting them with cages sealed the deal. By spring of 2020 I realized the only way to properly grow a tree and see some results is to start with a decent sized plug or bareroot, install a 4x4 weed mat to kill the grass, and protect it if its a tree the deer like to browse (norways/ white pines). My results from the last two years have been IMPRESSIVE!!!


The stem diameter on a bunch of my norways increased dramatically this summer even with the complete lack of rain we had for most of the summer. The white pines I planted in May of 2019, have grown on average at least 2 feet already, and with decent rain will be over the top of the 4 foot cages by the end of next summer. I fully expect them to be 10-12 feet tall within 5 years. I expect no less then 200 young conifers will leap 18-24" with average rainfall in 2021. Its gonna be a game changer for my land. I give a lot of credit to installing some type of weed mat to kill the competition and let the tree roots establish. I have been using Dewit 5 oz stuff. It comes in 4x300' roll. Worth every damn penny. And of course if you plant a browse tree like a white pine or norway spruce you better give it some protection when its tender and young. A bunch of my norways will be hardened off enough by next year that I will be able to remove the cages and protect some of the new stuff I am planting.


Dont be a fool and waste time with these tiny plugs cause your too lazy to plant with a shovel. Worst damn advice I have ever seen. Instead of planting 500 small plugs 8 years ago we would have been 100 times better off planting 20 trees and taking care of them. Hopefully I can save some of you some time. Deer will likely just pull a bunch of those tiny plugs out for you in the first few days anyways.

 

[ProcraftMike]

So much of our land projects seem to be trial and error. Looks like you have this one figured out. I have planted many small plugs from Itasca. I have had good luck with them on my higher ground, if I bucket them and spray around them at least once a year, twice if I have time. Otherwise, the native vegetation and vines just gobbles them up.

Now, If I could find a way to get success with planting conifers in my wet areas, I would be a much happier man.

 

[BuckSutherland]

My brother and I were talking about some of the mistakes we made a few weeks ago. One of them was put the wrong tree in the wrong spot. We have a wet area. White cedar, tamarack, hemlocks and balsam fir would be my first four choices for wetter areas. I will be planting my first tamaracks and hemlocks in 2021 in wet areas. Already have several white cedar in there and adding 20 more in 2 gallon pots this year for $13 each. I see you have figured it out as well that you cant simply plant and walk away with those dink plugs as well. They need maintenance. My stuff that is weed matted, and caged is pretty much maintenance free at this point.


Conifers around my area (Chippewa National Forrest) have superior deer sign compared to these large popple deserts.

 

[Gravel Road]

I think a lot of people on this site have figured out the same thing about tree planting, including me. I was so excited the first year when I planted about 300 or 400 bare root plums, hazelnut, pines, elderberry, etc. without any protection. I had a zero percent success rate The next year I ordered and grew some chestnuts from seed, babied them all summer, then planted them with weed mat. Every single one got pulled out of the ground-LoL. Now I won't plant anything I buy without landscape cloth for weeds, window screen for rabbits and voles, and 5 foot steel cage secured with t-post for the deer rubbing. Some also get a tree tube.
I did transplant a row of eastern red cedar last year for a visual barrier without any type of protection and they are doing fine. They may get buck rubbed but they are in an area that the bucks don't hang around, so should be okay.
I tried something new this fall with free stuff that I transplanted, such as red oak and mulberry. These just got chicken wire put around them and a small dead osage orange hedge tree thrown over them for deer protection. We'll see how that goes...

 

[Knehrke]

Amen to that! I wasted so much time trying to overwhelm deer with bulk plantings, if one in a hundred survived, I'd be surprised. For trees to grow in high deer density areas, they need protection. For trees to compete against weeds, they need the edge that a tree mat provides.

And finally, tubes suck. Sometimes they work for a few years, but given enough time, the mice will find them. Wooden stakes are useless - eventually they rot, break and take the tree with them.

From your pictures, you have it down pat. The only thing I've had luck with that didn't involve a cage was bud capping the terminal leader of evergreens from December to April using WIRE screen stapled around the stem. And I only do this on volunteers that pop up naturally. So far, so good. In a few years, my area of mature pines should become a haven of thermal bedding cover.

 

[NT179]

Around here you would have no luck with white pine. They are high on deer preference list and if any survived, a buck sure will rub it to death.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Around here you would have no luck with white pine. They are high on deer preference list and if any survived, a buck sure will rub it to death.

Same in my area with white pine. A cage solves that problem. I want to be to 100 white pines weed matted, caged and full sun by next year. I should be to about 75 by the end of this spring. Next spring I will remove some cages from Norways that have hardened off to get to 100. I wanna get to 50 white cedars, 20 hemlocks and 25 douglass fir eventually, and then most of my focus will likely turn to fruit trees and shrubs. Pretty well set on oak trees now with a good native red oak populaition and about 100 burr, SWO, schuttes and burr oak gambel added.

 

[tynimiller]

I stay away from White Pines personally...once mature they are vastly too bare underneath them, but you are 100% spot on. I now have a motto don't buy trees until I know I have the wire cage/fencing before ever hitting purchase. Minimum I fence, best case is chicken wire or mesh around that, and pea gravel or some kind of weed barrier. I do some tree spiral wraps to deflect chemicals too or small tubes.

 

[LoneRooster]

Buck, how are the conifers doing that you transplanted via your slick deal with the power company? (I am thinking of your posts about getting permission to grab volunteer trees out of the ditches under power lines near where you are). We are in Kanabec County and the power company just tagged a bunch of volunteer conifers (Blue Spruce I believe) in our ditch that will be mowed down under the power lines. I want to dig them up and establish more thermal cover in other parts of our property. What size can I pull out and transplant via a 5 gallon bucket and still be ok?

 

[bwoods11]

I am one of the few that has had bulk plantings do very well. Luckily not many deer at the time on this property, and none that "winter" in that area. Now I do smaller numbers 25-100 and we try to protect everything. Good point. If you have a property with no cover, very few deer, then it is possible you can get by with mass plantings, but be prepared for some failure. I do not like the real small plugs either.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Buck, how are the conifers doing that you transplanted via your slick deal with the power company? (I am thinking of your posts about getting permission to grab volunteer trees out of the ditches under power lines near where you are). We are in Kanabec County and the power company just tagged a bunch of volunteer conifers (Blue Spruce I believe) in our ditch that will be mowed down under the power lines. I want to dig them up and establish more thermal cover in other parts of our property. What size can I pull out and transplant via a 5 gallon bucket and still be ok?

You are talking about these. I transplanted a couple hundred of these things to our land. The survival rate seems to be 90-95% after 2 years of doing it. I have them overplanted along the road for eventual screening. I dont dig them out at the original site. Instead, I target trees that are between knee and waist high and I just grab them and pull quite aggressively and tear out whatever I can. In some spots you can tear out trees a little bigger than your waist, but then mortality goes up. Knee to waist is perfect. As soon as I have 50-75 I hurry back to my land (8 miles) and throw them in some water (totes) and then start planting. These trees are white spruce, and I would bet yours are too. Deer generally dont browse white spruce by us. These I just plant and walk away. I more content to let these linger a little under the canopy while they develop roots and I focus on filling in the open areas that need it the worst. I could plant 150 of these in an afternoon by myself real easy, but I'm in pretty good shape. My source took a bit of a hit last year, but they didn't get them all.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Reinforcing some of the comments above I went with planting specifically white spruce for a portion of my land because I wanted to plant a large number at a time (not going to cage several thousand trees) and stayed away from the smaller plug sizes and did the largest bareroot that could still be done with a dibble bar. Not saying you should use white spruce but whatever will have a decent chance of growing in your soil, location in the country, and moisture conditions and above all very low deer browse preference if you have a desire to get a lot planted in one season. High deer numbers make planting white pine, red (norway) pine and even norway spruce difficult in my area without good protection so it limited my selection. The very few white pine I have done for diversity (ok they were all free from a friend) all got cages or not worth it. The key with the white spruce was the leaders still got some browse but not eaten to the ground. White pine without protection, forget about it.

The small plug sizes do not work well but so tempting due to low cost in areas with thick grass or weeds. Sure you can gly and prep a spot but that stuff has so much in the seedbank it is back with a mission even before the first summer is over. The small plug sizes do fine in areas with the competition seriously set back like former ag fields following corn/beans whatever or maybe weedmats for all.

This year I have started transplanting small spruce from under ones planted years ago to new spots like shown in the pics from Buck above. Works best if you can time it within a few weeks of the frost going out of the ground (more of a consideration for north) and yep yank them out of the ground with the high moisture levels in early spring. Checked on some of my planting from this year during the deer gun season and glad to see most made it. Will see if they winter ok next.

 

[neonomad]

Ugh this thread reminds me that I better get bud capping, or pay the price.

 

[bwoods11]

Tamarack has been a real surprise for me. No protection or anything and they are now 5-6 feet tall in 3 years in MN. Some are on upland soils? Go figure

 

[H20fwler]

I am not in what anyone would ever consider a high deer density area but about all conifers I plant will get targeted by deer if they are not caged. White pine must be like deer crack and rabbits eat them too...any deer with horns will go after any spuce that dares to grow on my place like it is a sparring partner if they can get to it, they have even crushed fencing to try and get at them.

With protection for five or six years they thrive even if it’s just caged with old farm fence.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Baby pines are Andes dinner mints to east texas deer.......

bill

 

[Native Hunter]

You are winning the battle better than I am.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I found out this weekend that not even my cages are full proof. I have two caged white pines right up along the road that were pruned by something. It wasnt a deer and i doubt if a rabbit or anything got in my cage. They look like someone took a snips to them, but thats doubtful too. Most likely one of those little bastard red squirrels. That pisses me off to no end. First time in 2 years i have had a cage issue. Found a fresh rub on a bigger balsam too.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I filled my coffee mug on Saturday morning and went and checked all of my sources for transplant. I have unlimited white spruce, white cedar, white pine and balsam fir sources for next spring. I am gonna need about 150-170 white spruce, 50-60 balsam fir, 10 white pine and 1 cedar. I am currently buying all of my cedar from the SWCD in 2 gallon pots, but I want to try transplanting a few to see what survival is like. I already know its hard to transplant red pine for some reason. White pine, spruce and balsam fir have all been easy to transplant.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Tamarack has been a real surprise for me. No protection or anything and they are now 5-6 feet tall in 3 years in MN. Some are on upland soils? Go figure

One of the Federal clear cuts by my has tamarack replanted on upland soils. They look like they are doing great. Growing fast.