Seeding brassicas into standing rye

[chucker66]

I leave my rye and it suppresses the weeds very well. I have had to dig a few thistle's out but thats no big deal. During the summer months there is plenty of green for the deer in NW Wis so I don't worry about summer usage and it looks really cool to have a small plot of rye heading out. I do have some clover underneath but the deer don't hit it much in the summer. To me it all about keeping as much green stuff into November and December, heck even January. Right now they are still digging for the rye and the neighbor dairy farmer has 12 to 14 bags of silage right across the road

 

[williams111]

I leave my rye and it suppresses the weeds very well. I have had to dig a few thistle's out but thats no big deal. During the summer months there is plenty of green for the deer in NW Wis so I don't worry about summer usage and it looks really cool to have a small plot of rye heading out. I do have some clover underneath but the deer don't hit it much in the summer. To me it all about keeping as much green stuff into November and December, heck even January. Right now they are still digging for the rye and the neighbor dairy farmer has 12 to 14 bags of silage right across the road

So what’s your rotation look like in the fall? Roll the rye and plant brassica? Mow the rye leave the clover? Or something else? Do you spray at all?

 

[chucker66]

Williams111 I broadcast brassica into the standing rye and then roll it with a yard roller behind my ATV. This plot is an old pine plantation and I still have pine stumps in it so its a bit of a pain to get it all rolled down. What I can't get to with a roller I weed wack. The stumps are finally starting to break down so I might be able to pull them out to make rolling easier. This is usually mid to late July. I might forgo the free seed and try and broadcast brassica earlier this year to get bigger plants. Then around Sept first I broadcast more rye into the brassica. I have been doing this for about 5 years and every year the plot gets better and better. I don't worry about disease because I have quiet a bit of diversity in this plot. There is also some clover and I have spread more clover in it every other year. The deer hit this plot all fall but usually by gun season (week of Thanksgiving) the brassicas are dying or frozen but the rye is just getting going. My buddy has a drill and we used it in a different plot with just rye and clover and that rye took off. It was almost a foot high in October but as the weather got colder the deer were able to munch it down but now they dig in that plot more than my brassica rye mix plot. I almost wish I could drill the rye into my brassica plot but I would kill too many plants so broadcasting it is. I still get good growth on the rye. Hope this helps.

I have sprayed after rolling/weed wacking but it is less and less every year as the rye really keeps the weeds out. If there is a thistle or 2 I dig it out. Have some lambs quarter too that I will dig up. There's a few other weeds but for the most part its mostly what I planted and some weeds don't bother me.

 

[williams111]

Will rolling the rye terminate without spraying it even if the seed is not at a point where it will germinate? Will clover in the rye smother the brassicas from growing or will the brassicas grow through the clover? I like the idea of a legume growing with the rye for nitrogen producing reasons, but I know rolling the clover won’t terminate it. Thanks for the help!

 

[chucker66]

Will rolling the rye terminate without spraying it even if the seed is not at a point where it will germinate? Will clover in the rye smother the brassicas from growing or will the brassicas grow through the clover? I like the idea of a legume growing with the rye for nitrogen producing reasons, but I know rolling the clover won’t terminate it. Thanks for the help!

When I roll the rye it is basically ripe. I think even if you roll it in early July, before the seed is viable, it would kill it because you are bending the stalk or stem. I have not tried it yet but might this year as I want to get my brassicas in earlier. Even if it's not dead yet it soon will be anyway and rolling it allows the sun to get down where my brassica seed is germinating. I am also trying to limit how much I spray Glysophate and the rye is going to die anyway so why spray it. This works for me and a lot of guys here do something similar. I didn't make this up I am following Paul Knox's program using the implements I have. If I had a crimper, I would crimp it or use a cultipacker, but I don't so I just use my lawn roller. I see some guys use a drag or a pallet. Fresh and green is what the deer around my place seem to like. Heck they eat the freshly mowed Reed Canary Grass. Hope this helps and try some different things. I tried buckwheat on my place and it didn't do very well. I still have 25lbs of seed so I might throw that out again to see what it does. Check out some of the pictures WhiteBirchFarm has or WildThing. Those guys really having it going on with the clover and brassicas. I'm trying to copy what they are doing because it seems to work well. I know some guys will say that the deer in their area do not like rye, but for me in NW Wis they love it when its the last green thing in Nov and Dec. plus its the first thing green in April.

 

[bueller]

I have not had the best luck seeding brassicas into rye on my sand. I've read publications that rye uses a great amount of soil moisture late spring/early summer when it's growing super fast. I'm starting to think on my sand the benefit of the thatch is being outweighed by the rye sucking up so much soil moisture to produce the thatch. Clover seeded in the fall thrives under the maturing rye so I'm trying to find the right balance. I'm leaning towards terminating the rye this year as soon as it starts gets 12-18" high and then seeding brassicas at that time or a couple weeks later.

 

[trapperm]

I have not had the best luck seeding brassicas into rye on my sand. I've read publications that rye uses a great amount of soil moisture late spring/early summer when it's growing super fast. I'm starting to think on my sand the benefit of the thatch is being outweighed by the rye sucking up so much soil moisture to produce the thatch. Clover seeded in the fall thrives under the maturing rye so I'm trying to find the right balance. I'm leaning towards terminating the rye this year as soon as it starts gets 12-18" high and then seeding brassicas at that time or a couple weeks later.

How sandy of soil do you have? Like sand sand, pure beach sand or more of loamy sand?

The plot I am attempting to rescue with this method (And the original reason I began the thread) is about 70% sand evidence of the handful in a mason jar analysis.

 

[bueller]

How sandy of soil do you have? Like sand sand, pure beach sand or more of loamy sand?

The plot I am attempting to rescue with this method (And the original reason I began the thread) is about 70% sand evidence of the handful in a mason jar analysis.

It's a step above beach sand but not much. This is one of the publications I was referring to. While not an exact comparison to seeding brassicas into rye it is something to consider IMO, especially on lighter soils. I have a short window of good soil moisture in the spring. By the time June comes around it starts getting worse by the day. Trying to plant anything July or August is damn near useless. Even with timely rains to germinate the seed the young seedlings dry up or stall out very quick in the following days. It doesn't get better until mid-late September and there just isn't enough time for most crops by then. I'm going to try and establish brassicas this year before the soils dry up and terminating the rye early to conserve moisture is going to be part of that plan.

Three Years of Data Addressing Rye Water Use Prior to Soybean

www.ndsu.edu

 

[trapperm]

It's a step above beach sand but not much. This is one of the publications I was referring to. While not an exact comparison to seeding brassicas into rye it is something to consider IMO, especially on lighter soils. I have a short window of good soil moisture in the spring. By the time June comes around it starts getting worse by the day. Trying to plant anything July or August is damn near useless. Even with timely rains to germinate the seed the young seedlings dry up or stall out very quick in the following days. It doesn't get better until mid-late September and there just isn't enough time for most crops by then. I'm going to try and establish brassicas this year before the soils dry up and terminating the rye early to conserve moisture is going to be part of that plan.

Three Years of Data Addressing Rye Water Use Prior to Soybean

www.ndsu.edu

I read through the study and it seems to me that the rye ground was worse off for water until the rye died or hit some point, maybe maturity or something. Then the ground seems to improve/surpass bare/soybean only ground on available water after the rye planting eased its consumption. That turning point may be just a hair too late in your case?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have not had the best luck seeding brassicas into rye on my sand. I've read publications that rye uses a great amount of soil moisture late spring/early summer when it's growing super fast. I'm starting to think on my sand the benefit of the thatch is being outweighed by the rye sucking up so much soil moisture to produce the thatch. Clover seeded in the fall thrives under the maturing rye so I'm trying to find the right balance. I'm leaning towards terminating the rye this year as soon as it starts gets 12-18" high and then seeding brassicas at that time or a couple weeks later.

I have been using awnless winter barley when I can get my hands on it. It matures much sooner than the rye. That may give you more options for a late summer planting. For me the winter barley is ready to crimp by the second week of June.

 

[SD51555]

I have been using awnless winter barley when I can get my hands on it. It matures much sooner than the rye. That may give you more options for a late summer planting. For me the winter barley is ready to crimp by the second week of June.

It goes faster than rye in the spring/early summer? Have you ever let it go to maturity or done a side by side with rye? That's fascinating.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It goes faster than rye in the spring/early summer? Have you ever let it go to maturity or done a side by side with rye? That's fascinating.

It goes faster?

 

[SD51555]

It goes faster?

Heads out faster

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Heads out faster

Take a look through my land tour again.

 

[SD51555]

Take a look through my land tour again.

I can't believe I missed those pics. That looks fantastic!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have been using awnless winter barley when I can get my hands on it. It matures much sooner than the rye. That may give you more options for a late summer planting. For me the winter barley is ready to crimp by the second week of June.

Do the deer eat it? Dr Harper's food plot book indicates they never had deer touch the barley in their food plot trials. Maybe the awnless variety is different?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Do the deer eat it? Dr Harper's food plot book indicates they never had deer touch the barley in their food plot trials. Maybe the awnless variety is different?

I can't say that they eat the greens, i've never caged it. They dont eat my rye either so.... I can say that they pound the seed heads of the barley when they dry down.

 

[SD51555]

I had a great stand of awnless spring barley in 2019. This pic was sometime in late June. I came back three weeks later and couldn't even find evidence of barley ever having been there. I haven't been able to get a stand like that since then. But I've got all that figured now and help is on the way.

 

[Bowman]

I had a great stand of awnless spring barley in 2019. This pic was sometime in late June. I came back three weeks later and couldn't even find evidence of barley ever having been there. I haven't been able to get a stand like that since then. But I've got all that figured now and help is on the way.

View attachment 41072

I will be following.

 

[Bowman]

It's a step above beach sand but not much. This is one of the publications I was referring to. While not an exact comparison to seeding brassicas into rye it is something to consider IMO, especially on lighter soils. I have a short window of good soil moisture in the spring. By the time June comes around it starts getting worse by the day. Trying to plant anything July or August is damn near useless. Even with timely rains to germinate the seed the young seedlings dry up or stall out very quick in the following days. It doesn't get better until mid-late September and there just isn't enough time for most crops by then. I'm going to try and establish brassicas this year before the soils dry up and terminating the rye early to conserve moisture is going to be part of that plan.

Three Years of Data Addressing Rye Water Use Prior to Soybean

www.ndsu.edu

I am in Lewiston, Michigan. One field grew sweet fern, blueberries and something that looked like brillo pads and never grew. i would not attempt to grow brassicas at this time. They do not develop associations with mycorrhizal fungi. I would recommend frost seeding annual clovers (balansa). Can you mow? At 60 degrees soil temperature, I would broadcast buckwheat, Hairy Vetch and sorghum sudangrass. At 24 inches, I would mow. Sudangrass responds with increased root growth. Hairy Vetch is a great producer of nitrogen. Chicory, Plantain and Small Burnett are great for soil building. Forgot Birdsfoot Trefoil. Fall planting, rye and perennial clovers. I would mow instead of spray, build soil and wait to plant brassicas. FWIW. Oops, last year we received 23.87 inches of rain along with an early Spring warm up, then frost, gypsy moth and Oak wilt.