Seeding brassicas into standing rye

[Wild Thing]

It looks like the turnips/radish/kale might have been outcompeted by the rest of the blend or am I missing something?

Yep - They don't last long with the cover crop and with that many others to choose from. The only thing left in the spring is the vetch, clovers and rye, but I plant the others to help the soil some, even though I know they will be short-lived. I have other brassica plots which are planted for forage rather than soil builders.

 

[trapperm]

I know you asked S.T.Fanatic but I will throw my 2 cents in also.

My answer would be BOTH. I don't plant monoculture cover crops of rye any more - they always include legumes as well.

I also now include clovers in with my brassica mix when I plant them in July and I also broadcast rye over the brassicas a month or so later. There are many benefits to do this - primarily, the clovers and rye keep your soil covered when the brassicas are browsed out.

Here is my brassica blend:

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This brassica blend was drilled on July 9th - here it is on August 21st when I broadcasted rye into the standing brassicas...

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Here is the same plot the following June 16th. The brassicas are long gone but the clovers and rye have been feeding my deer and my soil since the snow melted...

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Here is my cove crop blend which I used for the past 2 years... I plant these in August.

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October 8th...

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the following June 11th...

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June 16th... I already posted the photos above of what this plot looked like when I just mowed it on August 7th and the followup on August 30th.

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When you stop killing your soil by cultivating it and plant cover crops like this which feed your soil, you can expect to see your soil test results like this....and you can stop wasting your hard earned money on synthetic fertilizers...and your deer can eat this stuff a lot better than they can eat your fertilizer

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I could get used to that soil!

 

[SD51555]

I think the key is not breaking your growth cycle with a tillage or chemical pass. Those disruptions sever the biological food chain enough that it won't work quite right until it's had time to heal, and that usually means you get the healing 'plants' (weeds) as well.

There are a few times during the year when you get a natural opening to get something else going without having to kill anything. I mow about two weeks after the hottest day of the year. I'd mow on the hottest day of the year if the rest of the timing worked out.

 

[trapperm]

Would having broadcasted 300lbs of rye to the acre cause any issues in the 1st year of the rotation?

I know that seems high but you start layering and it adds up fast.

 

[SD51555]

Would having broadcasted 300lbs of rye to the acre cause any issues in the 1st year of the rotation?

I know that seems high but you start layering and it adds up fast.

I can't speak to that. I've never seen what those high pop stands look like after they come back in the spring.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Would having broadcasted 300lbs of rye to the acre cause any issues in the 1st year of the rotation?

I know that seems high but you start layering and it adds up fast.

One thing is for sure, you won’t have any “weed” issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chucker66]

This thread is pure gold. I use rye quite a bit and pretty much follow the same pattern as WIld Thing for a rotation. My plots are not that big but it works. I have found my brassicas grow best where my thatch is a bit thicker and I'm guessing it holds more moisture there.

Chuck

 

[Derek Reese 29]

What is the earliest you could plant the brassicas and mow/pack to still get some reseeding of the rye?

 

[Mortenson]

I'm also in the camp that started letting cereal rye get to maturity. Pretty good results the first year. The route I went was bush-hogging it in early July. I wanted a pretty decent amount of brassicas in there for a 2nd consecutive year, so after the mowing and some rain to germinate free rye seed, I sprayed and bag spread. The prior fall I knew I wanted a clover strip at one end of the plot, so I took 60 seconds and doubled back over that end while spreading clover throughout the entire plot (which was brassicas and the 1st crop of rye at the time). It was a pretty dense mat of rye straw but for the most part the brassicas found daylight in most spots. I knew later germinating volunteer rye could get out of hand, but it was interesting to see how that would unfold. It was a lot of competition for the brassicas this summer but I still got enough and it seems the deer were keeping rye mowed to a manageable height. In late Feb or March I'll frost seed the whole plot with medium red and a ladino/alice blend and play it by ear going forward.

 

[Wild Thing]

What is the earliest you could plant the brassicas and mow/pack to still get some reseeding of the rye?

In my neck of the woods (4b) it would likely be late-July to early-August. It would be nice to plant the brassicas and free rye together but if I waited that long here I would not get enough growth on my brassicas before our first average frost date (around Sept 10). I like to get at least 60 days growth on brassicas before then so I plant them in early July. At that time the rye seed isn't viable yet so I have to broadcast my rye later. I'm sure the dates will vary from year to year depending upon soil moisture, temps, etc. The only way to really know for sure is to do a rag doll test I suppose.

June 6th - not a chance ...



July 5th - Nope...



July 15th - Nope, not yet...



July 21 - Now we are getting some place...



Let's do a rag doll test (wrap the seed in a moist paper towel, insert it in a plastic baggie and set it out in the sun)



A week - 10 days later I see I got about 35%-40% germination from the seed collected on July 26th, so I could have mowed the rye and planted the brassicas that day and would have had some rye germinate but not too much which might crowd out the brassicas. This would probably work for me but the growth on my brassicas would suffer some if I planted them that late so I opt to plant early when the rye seed isn't viable yet and then broadcast rye a few weeks later. This may well work though, depending upon your latitude and weather. (there was a little Hairy Vetch seed in there too, which did not germinate)



By comparison, here is a cover crop of rye which I mowed on August 13th. (I can't remember what rate I drilled it at but it looks pretty thick - maybe 60#/acre)



15 days later on August 28th I have a very thick crop of volunteer rye coming up which would have really crowded brassicas if I had planted them at the same time.

 

[Wild Thing]

I'm also in the camp that started letting cereal rye get to maturity. Pretty good results the first year. The route I went was bush-hogging it in early July. I wanted a pretty decent amount of brassicas in there for a 2nd consecutive year, so after the mowing and some rain to germinate free rye seed, I sprayed and bag spread. The prior fall I knew I wanted a clover strip at one end of the plot, so I took 60 seconds and doubled back over that end while spreading clover throughout the entire plot (which was brassicas and the 1st crop of rye at the time). It was a pretty dense mat of rye straw but for the most part the brassicas found daylight in most spots. I knew later germinating volunteer rye could get out of hand, but it was interesting to see how that would unfold. It was a lot of competition for the brassicas this summer but I still got enough and it seems the deer were keeping rye mowed to a manageable height. In late Feb or March I'll frost seed the whole plot with medium red and a ladino/alice blend and play it by ear going forward.

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Nice job Mortenson...and nice mower too!

What hardiness zone are you in??

 

[Mortenson]

Thanks Wild Thing. That mower was my Christmas gift to myself a couple years ago... the old one had ran over a lot of shat! I'm in Zone 5b but close to some maps that show 5a and we get low temps that would agree most years.

Here are the brassicas in that plot on 9/4. We got into a flash drought situation late last summer and I couldn't get a good germinating rain quite as early as I wanted. They keep growing well into October though and got the job done. I spread thin usually and go back a 2nd or 3rd time if needed. Living close by helps. You can see the volunteer rye catching up, but it was nice not having to buy rye seed for that plot this year. Included a pic of what our normally wet creek looked like in early Oct. Lucky EHD didn't throttle us again.

I must say I agree with what was said about your posts reminding us of Paul Knox. Very educational. Keep up the great work! Your place is amazing.

 

[Wild Thing]

Thanks Wild Thing. That mower was my Christmas gift to myself a couple years ago... the old one had ran over a lot of shat! I'm in Zone 5b but close to some maps that show 5a and we get low temps that would agree most years.

Here are the brassicas in that plot on 9/4. We got into a flash drought situation late last summer and I couldn't get a good germinating rain quite as early as I wanted. They keep growing well into October though and got the job done. I spread thin usually and go back a 2nd or 3rd time if needed. Living close by helps. You can see the volunteer rye catching up, but it was nice not having to buy rye seed for that plot this year. Included a pic of what our normally wet creek looked like in early Oct. Lucky EHD didn't throttle us again.

I must say I agree with what was said about your posts reminding us of Paul Knox. Very educational. Keep up the great work! Your place is amazing.

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Merry Christmas. I may have to treat myself like that this year. I am looking for a flail mower to mow my alfalfa with this year

Great looking brassica plots with very good spacing. I always seem to get mine too thick even when I try not to. You have the right idea.

We had near drought conditions here last year as well. Never got more than 2.5 inches of rain during any month of the growing season. Fortunately, we aren't turning any dirt and our cover crops conserve a lot of the moisture we do get.

Thanks for the nice comments. I am nowhere near where Paul was but he sure taught me a lot and I guess a little of it must have rubbed off.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

In my neck of the woods (4b) it would likely be late-July to early-August. It would be nice to plant the brassicas and free rye together but if I waited that long here I would not get enough growth on my brassicas before our first average frost date (around Sept 10). I like to get at least 60 days growth on brassicas before then so I plant them in early July. At that time the rye seed isn't viable yet so I have to broadcast my rye later. I'm sure the dates will vary from year to year depending upon soil moisture, temps, etc. The only way to really know for sure is to do a rag doll test I suppose.

June 6th - not a chance ...

View attachment 40966

July 5th - Nope...

View attachment 40967

July 15th - Nope, not yet...

View attachment 40968

July 21 - Now we are getting some place...

View attachment 40969

Let's do a rag doll test (wrap the seed in a moist paper towel, insert it in a plastic baggie and set it out in the sun)

View attachment 40970

A week - 10 days later I see I got about 35%-40% germination from the seed collected on July 26th, so I could have mowed the rye and planted the brassicas that day and would have had some rye germinate but not too much which might crowd out the brassicas. This would probably work for me but the growth on my brassicas would suffer some if I planted them that late so I opt to plant early when the rye seed isn't viable yet and then broadcast rye a few weeks later. This may well work though, depending upon your latitude and weather. (there was a little Hairy Vetch seed in there too, which did not germinate)

View attachment 40972

By comparison, here is a cover crop of rye which I mowed on August 13th. (I can't remember what rate I drilled it at but it looks pretty thick - maybe 60#/acre)

View attachment 40975

15 days later on August 28th I have a very thick crop of volunteer rye coming up which would have really crowded brassicas if I had planted them at the same time.

View attachment 40976

I am wondering as I am in hardiness zone 6A if I could bump that back by 2 weeks and still get some seed but not too much to drown out the brassicas. in Fall 2021, I planted mine the 2nd week in August and they came up great, but I am shooting for early to mid July for getting them in this year to hopefully get even more tonnage.

 

[williams111]

I think the key is not breaking your growth cycle with a tillage or chemical pass. Those disruptions sever the biological food chain enough that it won't work quite right until it's had time to heal, and that usually means you get the healing 'plants' (weeds) as well.

There are a few times during the year when you get a natural opening to get something else going without having to kill anything. I mow about two weeks after the hottest day of the year. I'd mow on the hottest day of the year if the rest of the timing worked out.

When you say "chemical pass" are you referring to spraying anything? like Gly or 2,4-d? If that is the case how would you recommend I handle an invasion of gly resistant Marestail? Last year I terminated my existing Rye from the previous years plots by broadcasting buckwheat, rolling the Rye then spraying Gly in June. Then I came back in early August, broadcast brassica's, rolled the buckwheat and sprayed with gly again to terminate the buckwheat. The plot struggled at best competing with the marestail. Maybe I should broadcast heavy rye this year to try and outcompete the marestail? and let that go until August when I typically plant my brassica plots?

 

[Wild Thing]

I am wondering as I am in hardiness zone 6A if I could bump that back by 2 weeks and still get some seed but not too much to drown out the brassicas. in Fall 2021, I planted mine the 2nd week in August and they came up great, but I am shooting for early to mid July for getting them in this year to hopefully get even more tonnage.

I don't have any experience planting in zone 6a but half of the fun of doing these things is experimenting with what works in your area in your dirt. You may consider giving it a try in a least some of your plots, or staggering your planting by a week or two and seeing what works best for you.

 

[Derek Reese 29]

I don't have any experience planting in zone 6a but half of the fun of doing these things is experimenting with what works in your area in your dirt. You may consider giving it a try in a least some of your plots, or staggering your planting by a week or two and seeing what works best for you.

Good call! I love experimenting with this stuff...my notes get confusing at times since I am planting on 3 properties now...I will probably end up just mowing the rye in May so I can see how the clover looks ..I can always add more rye later and do some more experimenting with a new plot right next to my existing one that I'll put in later in the summer...

 

[SD51555]

When you say "chemical pass" are you referring to spraying anything? like Gly or 2,4-d? If that is the case how would you recommend I handle an invasion of gly resistant Marestail? Last year I terminated my existing Rye from the previous years plots by broadcasting buckwheat, rolling the Rye then spraying Gly in June. Then I came back in early August, broadcast brassica's, rolled the buckwheat and sprayed with gly again to terminate the buckwheat. The plot struggled at best competing with the marestail. Maybe I should broadcast heavy rye this year to try and outcompete the marestail? and let that go until August when I typically plant my brassica plots?

Yep. Get/keep your soil covered and green (rye/clover/chicory/hairy vetch/flax), and that marestail problem should go away. You've already got a motherload of weed seed in the bank, that cat is outta the bag. You have to change conditions so its no longer so perfect for marestail. Changing conditions means changing what you do. Instead of death, life. Instead of spraying, no spraying. Your fungal to bacterial ratio in your soil will begin to evolve after 12 months and you'll see lots of good things happen.

What part of the country are you in?

 

[williams111]

Yep. Get/keep your soil covered and green (rye/clover/chicory/hairy vetch/flax), and that marestail problem should go away. You've already got a motherload of weed seed in the bank, that cat is outta the bag. You have to change conditions so its no longer so perfect for marestail. Changing conditions means changing what you do. Instead of death, life. Instead of spraying, no spraying. Your fungal to bacterial ratio in your soil will begin to evolve after 12 months and you'll see lots of good things happen.

What part of the country are you in?

I'm in Iowa, zone 5. I have not disked the soil in this plot since 2018 and I have been using Rye as a cover crop through the summer since 2019 accept for this past year I terminated the rye and planted buckwheat in the middle of June. Maybe the buckwheat wasn't a good Idea for a cover crop? I typically split my plots in 1/2. One side is rye/oats/peas/clover and the other side is a brassica blend. So going forward this spring should I just overseed any bare spots with rye/annual clover and let those go until fall planting of plots? Then broadcast-roll/mow at planting time?

 

[SD51555]

I'm in Iowa, zone 5. I have not disked the soil in this plot since 2018 and I have been using Rye as a cover crop through the summer since 2019 accept for this past year I terminated the rye and planted buckwheat in the middle of June. Maybe the buckwheat wasn't a good Idea for a cover crop? I typically split my plots in 1/2. One side is rye/oats/peas/clover and the other side is a brassica blend. So going forward this spring should I just overseed any bare spots with rye/annual clover and let those go until fall planting of plots? Then broadcast-roll/mow at planting time?

I really can't say for sure. I don't use annual clovers, and I gave up on getting brassicas going in the summer or early fall. I could never get them up without doing all kinds of awful things to the system.