Rut predicting

[Bigshooter19]

Does anyone believe in moon phases plays a roll in rutting activity? Last year for where i am was Oct 27. Which i shot 141 in 9 point on that date. But this year is November 14th. Or do you just hunt from Halloween till gun season? (for here in Wisconsin anyway) Wondering what people thought about it.

 

[Bill]

I'll be in a tree every good wind I get from Halloween through Nov. I predict peak rut will be in there somewhere for sure. :)

 

[phil@thesidehill]

i dont think breeding timing is influenced by moon phase what so ever. The moon phase thing just doesnt add up. If the moon was the trigger for breeding the timing of fawn drop would have substantial swings from year to year,which doesnt happen.

Moon phase may however have an impact on the timing of deer movements within a given day...but i really have not seen a strong correlation to that in own personal observations.

There is a ton of research by lots of state agencies that use fetal back dating of road killed and hunter killed does that put the period of peak breeding into the same 5-7 day period year in and year out for that given state or location with in a state.

But it all depends on what someone means when the say "the rut". I think most people use "the rut" to actually describe a very wide range of breeding behaviors. The rut really has several different phases that overlap and ebb and flow, but follow more or less the same progression on the calendar every year for a given area in the northern 1/3 of the country. For me, i usually see the first daylight scrape or food plot pic of a mature buck around Oct 20th through October 25th. Then by about Halloween, i'm not only seeing more pics of mature deer on their feet, but i'm seeing them with plenty of shooting light on the horizon driving around or going to and from work, etc. Things pretty much only pick up from there as November progresses. Our early archery season ends around November 15th every year. In most years the last 8 - 10 days of our season are the best in terms of rut behavior, then by time the season is over peak breeding is going on and buck sightings drop of for few days while they are busy with the does.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

In NW Missouri I took the last 5 years of daytime game camera pics I had, on good trails, of 130" bucks and up, and tried to figure out the peak of the Rut in my area for mature deer. I don't know how it matched up to moon phase or not, but Nov 6th and Nov 9th on average was the most sightings. Most were between 8:30am and 11am. I wonder how that matched up with moon phase?

 

[Bigshooter19]

I always wondered how much weather plans a factor in it? I'm sure really bad storms don't help much but i shot my buck on a pretty windy day. 15 mph and it was sprinkling. I've seen bucks chasing doe's as early as 0ct 20th and I'm talking mature bucks too.

 

[Tap]

I always wondered how much weather plans a factor in it? I'm sure really bad storms don't help much but i shot my buck on a pretty windy day. 15 mph and it was sprinkling. I've seen bucks chasing doe's as early as 0ct 20th and I'm talking mature bucks too.

Nothing will stop the rut but warm weather and hunting pressure will certainly have an effect on the time of day, or night that deer move.
I agree with Phil, Back-dating of fawns shows the breeding phase happens at same time period each year.

And, while the peak breeding may happen around Nov 10th to the 15th in my latitude, there are a few does that come into heat and get bred in October. I see a couple of fawns every year in May. Those fawns were conceived during the previous October. November fawns are dropped in June.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Does anyone believe in moon phases plays a roll in rutting activity?

Moon phases have nothing whatsoever to do with rut timing.

 

[Warner32]

i dont think breeding timing is influenced by moon phase what so ever. The moon phase thing just doesnt add up. If the moon was the trigger for breeding the timing of fawn drop would have substantial swings from year to year,which doesnt happen.

Moon phase may however have an impact on the timing of deer movements within a given day...but i really have not seen a strong correlation to that in own personal observations.

There is a ton of research by lots of state agencies that use fetal back dating of road killed and hunter killed does that put the period of peak breeding into the same 5-7 day period year in and year out for that given state or location with in a state.

But it all depends on what someone means when the say "the rut". I think most people use "the rut" to actually describe a very wide range of breeding behaviors. The rut really has several different phases that overlap and ebb and flow, but follow more or less the same progression on the calendar every year for a given area in the northern 1/3 of the country. For me, i usually see the first daylight scrape or food plot pic of a mature buck around Oct 20th through October 25th. Then by about Halloween, i'm not only seeing more pics of mature deer on their feet, but i'm seeing them with plenty of shooting light on the horizon driving around or going to and from work, etc. Things pretty much only pick up from there as November progresses. Our early archery season ends around November 15th every year. In most years the last 8 - 10 days of our season are the best in terms of rut behavior, then by time the season is over peak breeding is going on and buck sightings drop of for few days while they are busy with the does.

You hit it right on the head! It all depends on what people consider "the rut" Chasing does? Or bucks on their feet doing rutting activity... I think people worry to much about the peak of the rut! You don't have to kill a big buck when he is dogging a doe... I'd worry more about strictly daytime activity...

Also I hate when people say "man the big mature bucks aren't on their feet it must not be the rut yet.. Or the rut was bad this year"
Ever think that your just not sitting in the right spot? Haha Just because your not seeing rutting activity doesn't mean someone a mile away isn't! I've had years like that that I swear the deer weren't rutting but yet I had buddies killing Hogs.. So you just have to accept the fact you weren't in the right spot or the mature bucks weren't in your area

It's simple sit in a tree in a known big buck area around Oct 25 through the Month of November with a good wind and that's all the logic you need to know.. Who cares when peak breeding is

Also last year I had a 150 class buck on his feet under my stand when it was 78 degrees on November 1st an hour before dark.. Warm weather didn't bother him... I also shot a 150 class in a windy rain storm in the same spot a year before on Nov 1st


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[Tap]

Also last year I had a 150 class buck on his feet under my stand when it was 78 degrees on November 1st an hour before dark.. Warm weather didn't bother him... I also shot a 150 class in a windy rain storm in the same spot a year before on Nov 1st


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How do you know that the warm weather didn't bother him? I'll insert the phrase "effect him" in place of bother him.
Maybe that buck laid around most of the day instead of running does because of the heat. It may have been the heat that allowed you encounter him. If it was 10 degrees below normal that day, he may have been 3 miles away because he was dogging does all day long.

In general, warm weather does have an effect on how much deer move throughout the entire year, and not just during the rut. In the winter, they actually move more during the warmer parts of the day and they move less to conserve calories during the coldest times.
Yeah, I've watched mature bucks on their feet in temps well above average. But no matter how much or little they move in warm weather, they would be displaying more rut activity if the weather was cooler.

 

[H20fwler]

All I know is the second and third week of November around here are really good times to catch a buck in daylight acting like a hound.
I don't know if the moon or weather or what gets them going...but like everyone else I'll be up a tree as much as I can from Halloween on.

 

[Tap]

And getting back to the OP original question about moon phases effecting rutting activity.
Several of you guys are spot-on when you question what exactly is the "rut", or the "peak of the rut".
Many biologists define the rut as starting when velvet is shed and increases through the breeding phase, and ends when bucks shed antlers.
I agree that the best period of the rut for hunting is not "the peak" (I define the peak as the breeding phase).
The peak is when a lot of hunter call the "lock-down". That's simply the time when the most does will be in heat and being mated. That's when buck sightings usually drop dramatically.

Does the moon phase effect the timing of the rut? I really wanted to believe that for a few years. James Kroll published his "landmark" study claiming he had it all figured-out and that the moon phase actually timed the breeding phase. I paid very close attention to his claims. I timed my vacations around his claims. I now believe Kroll was full of crap. For what it's worth, my anecdotal observations show zero correlation between moon phases and actual breeding.
I do think the phase may have some effect on the time of the day bucks are on their feet, but the amount of effect can be offset by other factors such as hunting pressure, buck:doe ratio, cover and weather.

 

[Tap]

All I know is the second and third week of November around here are really good times to catch a buck in daylight acting like a hound.
I don't know if the moon or weather or what gets them going...but like everyone else I'll be up a tree as much as I can from Halloween on.

That is most likely post peak-breeding behavior during that 3rd week. Bucks return to seeking activity following the breeding peak that occurs from the 10th to 15th at our latitude. They still want to breed, but there are far fewer receptive does.
There are quite a few successful hunters that claim the period just after peak breeding is the best time to kill mature bucks...even more so than the period before peak breeding.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

And getting back to the OP original question about moon phases effecting rutting activity.
Several of you guys are spot-on when you question what exactly is the "rut", or the "peak of the rut".
Many biologists define the rut as starting when velvet is shed and increases through the breeding phase, and ends when bucks shed antlers.
I agree that the best period of the rut for hunting is not "the peak" (I define the peak as the breeding phase).
The peak is when a lot of hunter call the "lock-down". That's simply the time when the most does will be in heat and being mated. That's when buck sightings usually drop dramatically.

Does the moon phase effect the timing of the rut? I really wanted to believe that for a few years. James Kroll published his "landmark" study claiming he had it all figured-out and that the moon phase actually timed the breeding phase. I paid very close attention to his claims. I timed my vacations around his claims. I now believe Kroll was full of crap. For what it's worth, my anecdotal observations show zero correlation between moon phases and actual breeding.
I do think the phase may have some effect on the time of the day bucks are on their feet, but the amount of effect can be offset by other factors such as hunting pressure, buck:doe ratio, cover and weather.

Yep, I'll Buy that!

 

[wiscwhip]

I predict there will be a rut this fall. I also predict, that within any given area, it will be within 2 to 3 days either side of when it happened every other year for the past millennia or so, regardless of weather or any other influences.

 

[gunther89]

I know our farm is normally good from about Oct 28-Nov 10 or so with the best day being Nov 7th.

 

[j-bird]

I'm on board with Bill and Wisc's comments. Good deer hunting on my place will be in November. I will hunt as much as I can then. I don't even pay attention to the moon. Temps, wind direction, weather fronts, crop harvest progression in the area, mast dropping and deer sign I pay attention to.

I like hunting the chase phase. Bucks will let their guard down and are less cautious. I love using a decoy during this time as you can get a buck on a string once he sees it and comes over to check it out (especially a young buck decoy). Hunting the actual breeding season is all or nothing. A buck will do some very stupid things at this time, but if his lady isn't on the move.....neither is he. If he has no lady - he will run you over if need be to get to the next one. This works out well for me as I don't house a mature buck, so I have to wait for them to start expanding their search for ladies - which leads them to me. A doe decoy at this time is awesome.....unless does show up - then things get weird. Does are more social and expect to know who the ode decoy is and they will do all sorts of odd things to figure out what is going on. I was taking a decoy across a field once and had a nice 3 year old buck in a stare down at about 30 yards - I was nearly able to arrow him that was how badly he didn't want to leave the potential doe.

 

[gwm]

I predict there will be a rut this fall. I also predict, that within any given area, it will be within 2 to 3 days either side of when it happened every other year for the past millennia or so, regardless of weather or any other influences.

:)

 

[Warner32]

How do you know that the warm weather didn't bother him? I'll insert the phrase "effect him" in place of bother him.
Maybe that buck laid around most of the day instead of running does because of the heat. It may have been the heat that allowed you encounter him. If it was 10 degrees below normal that day, he may have been 3 miles away because he was dogging does all day long.

In general, warm weather does have an effect on how much deer move throughout the entire year, and not just during the rut. In the winter, they actually move more during the warmer parts of the day and they move less to conserve calories during the coldest times.
Yeah, I've watched mature bucks on their feet in temps well above average. But no matter how much or little they move in warm weather, they would be displaying more rut activity if the weather was cooler.

Yea your right there is no saying what he was doing before that.. I just know he came in and hit a scrape the same way other mature bucks have the last 7 years of hunting this spot all in different weather conditions... I was more trying to say just because it's hot out don't let that detour you from hunting in the rut.... I know weather can change deer movement but hormones are hormones

I heard once that the rut is triggered by the change in amount of daylight each day that is detected through a deers eye that triggers the pituitary gland that then triggers the hormones to make does go into heat.. They said it is about the same time every year and biologist have done studies with deer in a controlled environment that allowed them to control the amount of daylight a deer is exposed too over a years time and they said they have gotten bucks to grow more than one set of antlers in a year? Anyone else hear this? Crazy

I too do not believe moon phase effects rut at all other than time of day movement


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[Steve Bartylla]

There is a ton of research by lots of state agencies that use fetal back dating of road killed and hunter killed does that put the period of peak breeding into the same 5-7 day period year in and year out for that given state or location with in a state.

As Dr Karl Miller once told me, SC has 3 distinct peak breeding phases spread over the state and TX has 7-9 areas with different peak breeding dates. Each of those areas shares the same moon, don't they? Even if one can somehow rationalize that with the moon controlling breeding dates, the quote from Phil flat out renders the moon's impact on breeding a fallacy any way you look at it.

I do believe that weather can and will have an impact on how much bucks are running around during daylight, along with a bunch of other factors, but I am 10000000000000000000% convinced that the window the majority of does come into estrus in specific areas is the same year after year after year after year.

 

[Tap]

I heard once that the rut is triggered by the change in amount of daylight each day that is detected through a deers eye that triggers the pituitary gland that then triggers the hormones to make does go into heat.. They said it is about the same time every year and biologist have done studies with deer in a controlled environment that allowed them to control the amount of daylight a deer is exposed too over a years time and they said they have gotten bucks to grow more than one set of antlers in a year? Anyone else hear this? Crazy

I too do not believe moon phase effects rut at all other than time of day movement


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I've read about those studies and as far as I know, the current belief is that light effects hormone production. The amount of light controls a lot of hormone activity in deer as well as lots of other species including man. And yes they have experimented with the amount of light laboratory bucks receive, and they can grow more than one set of antlers per year. Humans with seasonal depression are sometimes given light treatment to stimulate hormone production.

The full moon phase producing more light during a given November week from year to year is Kroll's theory on why (OR IF IMO) the timing of the rut changes from year to year. But as said earlier, counting backwards from fawn drop proves that the rut occurs in the same time frame from year to year. Math doesn't lie.
But what I've never heard explained is why herds within a certain state like Tx or La have more than 1 varying rut times. Same amount of day and night, so why the difference in rutting dates?