Rootstock

[chummer]

My Apple plans for this year just got changed. Cummins just informed me my 5 Kerr are no longer available even though I ordered them in August. Waiting for their explanation. My question is after touring my property this weekend it is clear the deer move out of my area when the snow comes. Walked the entire 70 acres and not one set of tracks. This leads me to believe perhaps I can go with a semi dwarf tree because I don't have to worry about deer eating them in the snow. Is this thinking flawed. They do have some nice trees left in semi dwarf.

 

[Turkey Creek]

What rootstock were your Kerr on? What happens if you improve the habitat so much on your place that deer begin to spend more time there in the winter? What varieties were you looking at now?

 

[chummer]

What rootstock were your Kerr on? What happens if you improve the habitat so much on your place that deer begin to spend more time there in the winter? What varieties were you looking at now?

B.118. I don't think they will ever stay here. There is a very large Yarding area a couple miles away. I was looking at dolgo and nova spy. I am also not planning on keeping this property forever.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Nova Spy is a late maturing apple. B118 is considered to be a semi dwarf rootstock, what rootstock were you considering now?

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I was looking at pics of Thunters trees on mm106 stock the other day and couldnt beleive how tall they were. (Yates from wildlife group)
I think he said they were approx 16'. That be perfect for you especially if you don't plan on keeping the ground forever.
Heck Or just skip the apples and plant winter plots

 

[chummer]

Nova Spy is a late maturing apple. B118 is considered to be a semi dwarf rootstock, what rootstock were you considering now?

I am considering M.7. B.118 is semi standard. M.7 is listed as 10-12' tall.

 

[chummer]

I was looking at pics of Thunters trees on mm106 stock the other day and couldnt beleive how tall they were. (Yates from wildlife group)
I think he said they were approx 16'. That be perfect for you especially if you don't plan on keeping the ground forever.
Heck Or just skip the apples and plant winter plots

I am addicted to apples, or the attempt to produce an apple. I will plant brassicas but this property is the bullseye for lake effect snow and will average a 5' snow pack most winters. This is as a mild of winter as there is and there less than a foot of snow, still no tracks. The deer just get out of dodge. Last year was my first year with the property and no tracks. As soon as the snow goes they move back in. Even at my place 8 miles down the road some deer stay. This place is the highest elevation for the area.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chummer - If you are considering mid to late fall apples and/or crabapples, a couple good ones are All-Winter-Hangover, Winter Wildlife crabs - and Sherry ( an apple ) from SLN. The AWH crab produced about (50) 1 1/2" dia. crabapples in year 3 on Antonovka rootstock. It's about 12 ft. tall now. The Winter Wildlife crabs are only in year 2 at my camp and haven't produced fruit yet - but prob. will this year. Crabs fruit sooner than regular apples in general. The Antonovka rootstock on the AWH crab proves you don't have to wait 10-12 years to get a good amount of fruit on the tree, at least with a crabapple !!
The Sherry apple is an annual heavy producer of apples that hang on the tree all winter, dropping slowly. I also planted a Sherry at camp, but is only going into 3rd year.

As for rootstocks, Antonovka and B-118 are very cold - hardy. Emla-7, M-7 is cold hardy and grows about a 12 ft. tree, but is recommended to be staked for best results. G-222 is a newer Geneva series rootstock from Cornell U. and is cold - hardy and will grow a tree about the same size as M-7.

If you want fruit more quickly, I'd lean on the crabs.

 

[chummer]

I thought he needed orders in by October this year. I have all those varieties but I would definately get a couple more. I will give him a call. Thanks for the reminder

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Hey Chummer - You're right ...... the orders were asked to be in by October for this spring. But being that he's trying to get as many sales as possible to get his feet under him for the nursery to take off - he might still have some available & be willing to sell. Maybe not, as well. But if he does, it's a win for you. If not - those are possibilities for next fall's order.

I ordered more of the AWH and Winter Wildlife crabs for my camp this spring, as well as another Centennial crab - just because they have grown so well for us and produced some fruit in 3 years. The Centennial is another really good tasting eater !! Good tree for home use too in the yard.

I mentioned the Antonovka rootstock on the SLN crabs because ( at least for the crabs ) Antonovka put on a lot of fruit in 3 years. The story on Antonovka is 10-12 years for fruit, but it's sure kicking butt on the crabs. Our one AWH crab had 50 crabapples on it this year at 12 ft. This next year ..... 100 (?) and maybe 14-15 ft. tall ? Not a bad deal for so quick in it's production. And Antonovka is THE most cold-hardy rootstock out there, coming from Siberia originally. Tug Hill = N.Y. Siberia ??? :D

On a general note - I think you're gonna have a 5-star property once you're all planted and the deer discover what all you have there. Does and fawns are gonna love the food variety and cover, & hang out there, which - in the fall - will attract the boys with pointy hats !!

 

[chummer]

I wish I would have gave him my whole order. I went with cummins to get the price break (and they do have nice trees) but Kerr was number one on my list. They did still have some chestnut crabs available so I got those instead. I did plant a few trees from SNL last year so hopefully I will have some apples in three years. No Siberia this year, haven't gone below zero yet! Last year we were below zero for half of winter. Even on the Tug Hill there is only 6" of snow which is unheard of for February. I am going up Saturday with the chainsaw.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I guess I didn't understand your post ....... Do you HAVE some Kerr or did you miss out entirely ??
Chestnut crabs are a great one to have as well. They drop thru much of archery season and are good eaters, too. Dolgo crabs are a heavy producer of fruit and ripen around early Sept.

My camp has a variety of crabs to cover early, mid, and late season. They are all growing really well for us - but we're further south. We only have 3 types of rootstocks - Antonovka, B-118, and MM-111. If I had to be limited to a few crabs, they would be: All-Winter-Hangover, Chestnut, Centennial, Dolgo, and Winter Wildlife crabs. Kerr hasn't fruited for us yet - so when our 3 Kerr start to produce, I'm sure I'll be a fan of that one as well.

 

[chummer]

I guess I didn't understand your post ....... Do you HAVE some Kerr or did you miss out entirely ??
Chestnut crabs are a great one to have as well. They drop thru much of archery season and are good eaters, too. Dolgo crabs are a heavy producer of fruit and ripen around early Sept.

My camp has a variety of crabs to cover early, mid, and late season. They are all growing really well for us - but we're further south. We only have 3 types of rootstocks - Antonovka, B-118, and MM-111. If I had to be limited to a few crabs, they would be: All-Winter-Hangover, Chestnut, Centennial, Dolgo, and Winter Wildlife crabs. Kerr hasn't fruited for us yet - so when our 3 Kerr start to produce, I'm sure I'll be a fan of that one as well.

I planted 5 Kerr two years ago. I ordered 5 more which were confirmed back in August. I just received notice this week they didn't have any Kerr.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I know some of the nurseries won't sell inferior trees, and if, when they look to dig the trees ( winter ) and bring in for wrapping, they find less than they expected - they cancel some orders. I've read about and spoken to some nurseries that don't want to get a bad name for selling skimpy trees. I don't know if that's what happened in your case - but it may be. I would assume they'd refund your money or give you the option of choosing other trees. Cummins has always seemed to go the extra mile to please customers - in my experience.

Did you contact SLN to see if they had anything available yet ?? If so ........ any luck ??

 

[chummer]

I know some of the nurseries won't sell inferior trees, and if, when they look to dig the trees ( winter ) and bring in for wrapping, they find less than they expected - they cancel some orders. I've read about and spoken to some nurseries that don't want to get a bad name for selling skimpy trees. I don't know if that's what happened in your case - but it may be. I would assume they'd refund your money or give you the option of choosing other trees. Cummins has always seemed to go the extra mile to please customers - in my experience.

Did you contact SLN to see if they had anything available yet ?? If so ........ any luck ??

I think your right. Their response back to me was "Kerr breaks our heart every year". Luckily they had chestnut crabs left, after that they didn't have anything I wanted. They did let me keep the discount pricing but I just replaced them with the chestnut crabs. It seems like they would know in September which trees will be good for spring shipping. I suppose I should just start grafting and be done with it. I keep telling myself this is my last apple tree order.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I think your right. Their response back to me was "Kerr breaks our heart every year". Luckily they had chestnut crabs left, after that they didn't have anything I wanted. They did let me keep the discount pricing but I just replaced them with the chestnut crabs. It seems like they would know in September which trees will be good for spring shipping. I suppose I should just start grafting and be done with it. I keep telling myself this is my last apple tree order.

Try the grafting approach. I think the problem with Kerr is that the scion wood that is produced is not very big as the guys whom I sent scions this year of Kerr can attest. These trees are crab apple factories. My Kerr is only about 5 ft tall but it looks like a mature blueberry bush it has so much fruit. Even if your graft fails you will still have the rootstock to try the next year. I will promise you some Kerr scions next year Chummer if you decide to graft. I only have one tree and it's a great pollinizer which is why I planted it

Paul

 

[Bowsnbucks]

You aren't frozen fast to anything up there are you Chummer ?? Should we send a St. Bernard dog with a little " anti-freeze " in a small keg strapped to it's neck ??

I'm anxious to see how our 2 Kerr turn out on B-118. I hope they get some size to them. It'll probably be another 2 years until they have enough size to get some scion from, but I can send some in the future too, if you need more.

 

[chummer]

Thanks guys. I have 4 Kerr doing good. They will be on their third leaf this year. I am hopeful to see some blossoms this year. I would be frozen if I was outside, -34 today. First below 0 we have had this year. I guess I will see what zone 4 trees can handle that in a couple months.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Air temp. or wind chill ?? We had 0 and -14 wind chill here in S.E. Pa. this morning. Wood stove felt great !!

I hope your trees make it thru OK. I believe I read that a couple really cold nights won't be a big deal for trees. It's the prolonged cold that is a worry - if I remember what the article said. Maybe some of the experienced apple tree guys can comment on cold's effects ?? At any rate - I hope yours are OK.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

We had minus 10 at my farm last night but I think last year the temps were near that a few times and for prolonged periods. I think the trees should be fine but remember it's the survival of the fittest and some weak trees could perish but that's nature