Root requirements

[Rit]

I am undergoing a major renovation in my backyard. Currently there is quite a bit of surface rock and the dirt underneath is not much better.

I have removed about 20 trees in total some 130’ oaks along with mulberry, walnut, and Kentucky coffee trees. I wanted more yard for our kids to play in and maintenance was a giant pain with all the the trees and rock. Where the yard meets the woods is thick brush with a few tall trees. This is a natural edge and you can see deer from the house at any time of the day. I really want to line this edge with crabapple trees. The dirt isn’t great but something I am doing to do to remove the rock is renting an excavator and bringing in loads of topsoil. I can shape this area anyway I want. So armed with that info what needs to happen for these apple trees to thrive? I can dig out each area where there will be a tree but not sure exactly how much of area I need to correct.

 

[Native Hunter]

The two primary things that limit apple tree production near a woods edge are (1) competition from roots of forest trees, and (2) too much shade from the forest trees. With a backhoe you could probably take care of the first problem for a long time by breaking up a large area around each apple tree before it is planted. The shade problem might be harder to overcome. If the forest edge is running east to west, you would have a better chance if you could plant the trees out quite a way from the edge. That way they might get close to a full day of sun. However, if it is running north to south, you are likely limiting the apple trees to around 1/2 day of sun. They may live and even produce some, but they will never "thrive" as you desire.

 

[Rit]

So the good thing is this is an East/West run. There are few bigger trees to the East but soon after sun up these trees should be getting plenty of sun and that should continue all day long. I plan to stagger the trees slightly to allow for more sun per tree maybe even in an arc pattern to follow the contour of the edge. The edge is a very soft edge with only a few tall trees. I think these apples will be mostly full sun. Some of the edge I can keep trimmed up to keep the height down. It has more bushes than trees and they are browsed a fair amount. I am concerned with the rock but plan to relieve some of that mechanically. I am not sure how optimal it will be. I don’t really want a raised bed scenario but will be amending the area somewhat. I want a good mixture of native soil but some backfill will be necessary as I remove rock.

 

[H20fwler]

Make sure you don't have any walnut within 75 plus feet of your crabs. Walnuts will kill fruit trees and many other trees/shrubs, even a few years after walnuts are removed the juglone poison stays in soil.

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2005/jul/070701.htm

 

[BobinCt]

Like Native said to plant away from the edge. I planted a few trees years ago close to the edge and they are duds. They didn’t grow good at all. On one of them, one side grew good, but the other side didn’t which was a result of one side only getting exposure to the sun. What I learned from planting trees over the years is that location is the most important thing IMO. Also, what will be very important is soil test the topsoil and amend accordingly.

 

[Rit]

Make sure you don't have any walnut within 75 plus feet of your crabs. Walnuts will kill fruit trees and many other trees/shrubs, even a few years after walnuts are removed the juglone poison stays in soil.

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/news/2005/jul/070701.htm

I knew about the Walnuts but didn’t know about the distance and residual. The link stated 50’ but I bet that is dependent on the size of the tree. I removed 2 one on the smaller side and the other a good size. That definitely complicates the process. It does say it only takes a few months to breakdown. I wouldn’t plant until next Spring but something to consider. Good post.

 

[H20fwler]

I knew about the Walnuts but didn’t know about the distance and residual. The link stated 50’ but I bet that is dependent on the size of the tree. I removed 2 one on the smaller side and the other a good size. That definitely complicates the process. It does say it only takes a few months to breakdown. I wouldn’t plant until next Spring but something to consider. Good post.

I've been trying to get some spruce going in a spot I cut down a walnut for three years and they keep dying. The ones a little ways from it are fine, where I've planted closer to stump they get sick and die.
I had never even heard of juglone before seeing someone on here post something up a couple years ago and it got me looking into it.

 

[Rit]

I've been trying to get some spruce going in a spot I cut down a walnut for three years and they keep dying. The ones a little ways from it are fine, where I've planted closer to stump they get sick and die.
I had never even heard of juglone before seeing someone on here post something up a couple years ago and it got me looking into it.

Curious how long it took them to die? I am in Florida now so I can’t confirm but I planted a crab behind my garage “just because”. It’s really putting on growth but I think it’s feet away from a small walnut.

 

[H20fwler]

Curious how long it took them to die? I am in Florida now so I can’t confirm but I planted a crab behind my garage “just because”. It’s really putting on growth but I think it’s feet away from a small walnut.

I fall planted spruce same year I cut tree down and they were dead by the following fall. Read up on possible causes posted the question on here and found out about walnuts, I figured soil should be fine over a year after cutting tree down so planted a couple more a few feet further out same thing.
The walnut tree had a steering wheel size trunk, I girdled it year before cutting so it was almost all the way dead when cut. I think a lot depends on the soil and size of walnut trees, my soil has a lot of clay. There were a couple pop can size ones I cut at the time that were close to it too but I think the bigger one was the culprit.

Planted couple more spruce left of stump in pic those are ones that died and small one left side of log, the ones further out are fine.

 

[H20fwler]

Where did you go in Florida? Are they making you wear masks anywhere? Are restaurants all open?
Wife and I are going down to Siesta Key next month.

 

[Rit]

Where did you go in Florida? Are they making you wear masks anywhere? Are restaurants all open?
Wife and I are going down to Siesta Key next month.

We are in Naples. Mask were optional on the plane on the way here. We have went shopping a few times and some places are mask or no entry, some places are optional, and others are not at all.

Restaurants are open but limited capacity. We ate ate one place on the water and they had some areas blocked off. Another place made us wear mask to enter but we could remove them once at the table. Stopped at Costco for provisions and they were mask only same as at home.

We are at TPC Treviso Bay. The golf course is shutdown for maintenance. All the other amenities were open when we arrived. Allegedly Florida is exploding in cases and they have started to shut some things down. They first shutdown some restaurants inside the Treviso Bay community, and as of yesterday they shutdown everything due to a positive test from a permanent restaurant. We are awaiting word on what happens Monday. They have an amazing pool the kids love. We have been to a few beaches and those are open for business.

M-F the beaches were not crowded at all. Yesterday was a noticeable difference so today we stayed home enjoyed the pool and spoiled Dad. We will head back to the beach tomorrow.

 

[H20fwler]

Nice! Sounds like you are all having a great time!
The restrictions sound a lot like here.
We are so looking forward to getting out of town for a while...beach/seafood/jet ski's and some alone time. Going to take in the sites around Sarasota too.

 

[Rit]

Nice! Sounds like you are all having a great time!
The restrictions sound a lot like here.
We are so looking forward to getting out of town for a while...beach/seafood/jet ski's and some alone time. Going to take in the sites around Sarasota too.

We are thanks. I did just read something though that said the Florida Keys are requiring folks to wear mask everywhere in public until June of 2021. I thought we might get in a bind here but it hasn’t happened yet. We stay until next Saturday so we will see if any new restrictions show up. I can’t imagine wearing a mask in this heat and humidity. I was in a few stores wearing one for about 15 minutes and that’s about all I could handle with the air full blast.