Oaks: Let's have a hard conversation

[SD51555]

I would say my released oaks take about two to three years to respond with heavier acorn production this could be screwed by a mast year in there somewhere. There is always the genetic factor of individual trees that plays into it and weather also. It’s nice to have some historical data on acorn production from individual trees to know who is likely to respond best to release but this isn’t likely in many situations especially young trees there is no baseline. Also red oaks seem to need more time in general to start acorn production than whites oaks and this time difference is substantially maybe a decade longer in my experience at least.

I don't even worry about them that much. August and September don't need any work in terms of the land pumping out forage for any critter that roams the property. It's actually kind of tough to even find evidence of browsing at that time due to the massive flush of natives, plots, woody browse, and soft and hard mast.

All my efforts go into November - March food concerns. The reaper will come with a brutal winter again.

 

[homerj1]

All my efforts go into November - March food concerns. The reaper will come with a brutal winter again.

All that food you have available summer-through October helps the deer get through Nov-March. There's a clear correlation between high acorn production years and winter survival of northern deer.

 

[b116757]

SD I wasn’t trying to persuade you not to cut any oaks down with my comment to the contrary if I had a property loaded with oaks it wouldn’t bother me at all to cut some in poor locations for some of my other goals. Sadly my largest property has very very few oaks so on that one I protect what I can and plant more. Some of my other properties have some oaks so they are of less importance to me on those properties. Some of my buddies are farther east in southern Missouri and their properties are absolutely covered in oaks if I own a property like that I’d have no qualms about cutting some down and those properties pose a different challenge of trying to hunt them when acorns are literally everywhere on the ground how do you pattern the deer and catch them at funnel points much more difficult hunting conditions while they exist.

 

[SD51555]

SD I wasn’t trying to persuade you not to cut any oaks down with my comment to the contrary if I had a property loaded with oaks it wouldn’t bother me at all to cut some in poor locations for some of my other goals. Sadly my largest property has very very few oaks so on that one I protect what I can and plant more. Some of my other properties have some oaks so they are of less importance to me on those properties. Some of my buddies are farther east in southern Missouri and their properties are absolutely covered in oaks if I own a property like that I’d have no qualms about cutting some down and those properties pose a different challenge of trying to hunt them when acorns are literally everywhere on the ground how do you pattern the deer and catch them at funnel points much more difficult hunting conditions while they exist.

No worries. I just thought it a good conversation to have. On my place they're a nice bonus, just more often than not, they don't produce. Most years, all they yield is branches and leaves.

 

[Catscratch]

^^^ I wouldn't be too big on something that rarely produced AND took up space that I could put to other uses. My first approach would be to see if I could get them to produce on a regular basis. I'm kind of like that in wanting to use what's already there if I can. If those measures didn't work I would gladly remove them if I had a good alternative. In KS trees are a rarity so my mindset might be different than someone who is surrounded by trees.

 

[SD51555]

^^^ I wouldn't be too big on something that rarely produced AND took up space that I could put to other uses. My first approach would be to see if I could get them to produce on a regular basis. I'm kind of like that in wanting to use what's already there if I can. If those measures didn't work I would gladly remove them if I had a good alternative. In KS trees are a rarity so my mindset might be different than someone who is surrounded by trees.

That would be a good new thread: Uncommon species that you promote on your land.

I could give a long talk on diamond willow, ash, maple, birch, and tag alder.

 

[nwmn]

Funny, many profess to wanting to have year round food sources, but the minute an Oak tree doesn't fit a hunting schedule, or impacts a food plot ... out comes the chainsaw.

A mature oak tree producing acorns is of far greater long term value to my land and wildlife than any food plot I could plant. They take 20 years to get to nut producing age and will out live all of us. I read that acorns contain more energy than corn, two times the amount of carbohydrates, and up to 10 times the amount of fat, making acorns a tremendous food source for many wildlife species during fall and winter.

I would move or adapt a food plot before I would ever cut an oak tree down.

Only way I would cut an oak tree down is when it's a threat to itself, not producing acorns, or to open up sunlight so they produce more. Or, you're forced to cut some down that are a threat to your house.

 

[TreeDaddy]

That would be a good new thread: Uncommon species that you promote on your land.

I could give a long talk on diamond willow, ash, maple, birch, and tag alder.

Another thread...... " I like big oaks,and I cannot lie"....Sir Direct Seed-a lot

bill

 

[Tree Spud]

That would be a good new thread: Uncommon species that you promote on your land.

I could give a long talk on diamond willow, ash, maple, birch, and tag alder.

How about ... good wood should never be wasted

 

[Teeder]

Bumping up another interesting oak thread.

 

[SD51555]

Bumping up another interesting oak thread.

A good follow up on this topic, and some may have caught this from last fall. We had an even bigger crop of acorns in 2023. It was an apocalyptic amount of acorns from all oaks (reds and burs in my area). It was also about the worst hunting season I've ever had short of the wind/rain/corn/slaughter years when we used to fight with the agency of which we no longer speak. You know, those years when we were all in cold pockets of hot areas?

Anyway, I bear hunted for 8 straight days and didn't see but one bear towards the end, and it was too dark to shoot. Hardest bear season anyone could recall in my area. Worst number of deer sightings I've ever had too. Plots were a non-attractant last year, and I've got rotten bur oak acorns in my plots yet today from last fall.

Maybe there's a happy in between where we could get a normal crop that the critters can use up in a month or so and get back to normal patterns.

 

[jsasker007]

Bumper crop last year for sure. Might be the first time I still had acorns all over the woods after the snow melted. Also didn't see many deer at all. Had the most scrapes I've ever had last fall. All the signs were there but no deer sightings after the first weekend. Don't remember if the weather was good for hunting or not. I'm lucky if I can remember what I did last week.

 

[b116757]

We had a mast year three years ago last two years have been very light to near nonexistent do to drought this year looks to possibly be a mast year for at least the whites. I haven’t really checked on the reds yet.

 

[jsasker007]

Running out of recipes for tag soup.

 

[Teeder]

My NRO's, English and Sawtooth are loaded, again.

 

[bwoods11]

As a realtor that sells hunting land, my theory on oaks .. is the more the better. Buyers like oaks for hunting/acorns, scenic value, stands etc… Deer, bear, turkey, squirrel, wood ducks .. you name it !

I keep as many as possible, only cut them down if they die or I simply have to .

 

[SD51555]

We had a mast year three years ago last two years have been very light to near nonexistent do to drought this year looks to possibly be a mast year for at least the whites. I haven’t really checked on the reds yet.

That idea popped into my head today too. Having just switched jobs a few months ago, I'm not going to be rich in PTO this fall and I'm trying to figure out whether I'm going to try getting a bear tag. It came to me that I should also be looking up at the oaks soon to see if there's another bumper crop coming. I haven't spent much time in the woods since the tick and mosquito boom is back on with all the rain.

I've had to dig up a lot of knowledge I haven't used in years due to the drought. Now that it's not only raining again, but raining heavily, odds are I won't have any acorns at all this year. These high water years generate a wicked wave of anthracnose on my property, and that has so far meant no bur oak acorns for me.

 

[Angus 1895]

I think there is silvaculture, and there is hunting.

Pouring a can a corn down your ice fishing hole may help you get more bites, but trying different techniques and locations will probably prove more beneficial.

I wouldn’t put too much stock in finding the “ magic corn.”

But certainly the “ corn” should be around when it’s legal to fish.

 

[Native Hunter]

Some years will be better than others, but the likelihood of a complete bust for me is very low. This is primarily because of three things:

1. Sawtooth Oaks almost never fail to produce a crop. I now have about 20 big ones that produce great with some smaller ones coming on.
2. Swamp Chestnut Oaks almost never fail to produce. I have roughly 25 that have produced acorns for the last 5 years or so.
3. Within the 11 acre oak planting that I did, there are a lot of different varieties that pollinate at different times in the spring. This broader window for pollination lessens the chance that weather will negatively impact acorn production on all of the varieties.

 

[Teeder]

Some years will be better than others, but the likelihood of a complete bust for me is very low. This is primarily because of three things:

1. Sawtooth Oaks almost never fail to produce a crop. I now have about 20 big ones that produce great with some smaller ones coming on.
2. Swamp Chestnut Oaks almost never fail to produce. I have roughly 25 that have produced acorns for the last 5 years or so.
3. Within the 11 acre oak planting that I did, there are a lot of different varieties that pollinate at different times in the spring. This broader window for pollination lessens the chance that weather will negatively impact acorn production on all of the varieties.

I like that strategy. My sawtooth and English produce every year and i have others that are just kicking in the past couple of years: chestnut oak, swamp chestnut, swamp white and a possible English x white cross. Throw in a handful of dunstans for good measure.