Oaks: Let's have a hard conversation

[Bowsnbucks]

Just another tidbit of info - White oak (Quercus alba) acorns are much sweeter-tasting than red oak acorns. Those are the ones that get hammered first here in Pa. during September and October. Chestnut oaks (not sure of the scientific name - I've seen 2 different ones used before) are also in the white oak family, and have sweet acorns as well. When the chestnut oaks are dropping acorns, deer will come to them like candy. Red oak acorns are more bitter tasting, and seem to get hit hardest in the winter, after the bitter tannins have had a chance to leach out or get diluted as time, rains & snows go by. At least that's what we've seen where we're located.

In the Pa. mountains where AG is very scarce, acorns are a critical food source to fatten critters for winter cold. Piles of bear scat in the fall are often solid acorn mash.

 

[Catscratch]

I'd never heard that they loose tannins with time (which makes sense because you can soak acorns to leach out the tannins). I'd always gone with the idea that a least preferred food source becomes preferred food once all the good stuff is gone.

 

[jsasker007]

Trying to get some burr oaks going. Evergreens, oaks and birch are the main trees I'm trying to support while taking out other trees that compete. Gives me something to do and then I get to use my equipment more. DIESEL THERAPY BABY!

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^

I encourage anyone in MN to try some swamp white oak over burr oak. Doubtful I will ever plant a burr oak again when swamp white oaks are available. Just my opinion, but SWO is superior to burr oak. I have them growing in the northern 1/3 of MN.

 

[jsasker007]

^^^

I encourage anyone in MN to try some swamp white oak over burr oak. Doubtful I will ever plant a burr oak again when swamp white oaks are available. Just my opinion, but SWO is superior to burr oak. I have them growing in the northern 1/3 of MN.

I don't know if I have any SWO growing on my property or not. Lots of different oaks but don't know all the different species. What is it that makes the swamps a better or more preferred oak? Was thinking burr to get some monster sized acorns.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I don't know if I have ever seen a SWO anywhere but in town or at the Arboretum in Chaska. I have really been paying attention to them the last 5 years in town. Their acorns are bigger than most burr oaks I have encountered. Burr oak drops late Aug- early Sept. SWO drops late Sept- early Oct. Every SWO i watch dropping in town has multiple critters looting them all day long. Its really easy to get the cap off a SWO. I have chewed on SWO acorns. I can see why they are highly desirable to critters. They also hold their leaves LATE into the year. Most the the SWO around here still have all their leaves making them easy to identify. If you bought some decent sized SWO bare roots you should be able to get them to start producing in under 10 years. I will never plant another burr oak again when SWO is available to me. All the burr oak acorns are cleaned up before the first SWO hits the ground.

 

[b116757]

I agree on taking pressure off the food plots on that same farm my food plots are miserable most years grazed down to dirt unless my row crop guy has winter wheat planted then they do much better. This year he has them tilled and fertilized right now so nothing at all for the deer to eat in the row crop fields. This isn’t always the case he rotates crops so some years like last year you couldn’t hardly chase the deer out of the wheat fields with sticks all fall and winter.

 

[jsasker007]

I don't know if I have ever seen a SWO anywhere but in town or at the Arboretum in Chaska. I have really been paying attention to them the last 5 years in town. Their acorns are bigger than most burr oaks I have encountered. Burr oak drops late Aug- early Sept. SWO drops late Sept- early Oct. Every SWO i watch dropping in town has multiple critters looting them all day long. Its really easy to get the cap off a SWO. I have chewed on SWO acorns. I can see why they are highly desirable to critters. They also hold their leaves LATE into the year. Most the the SWO around here still have all their leaves making them easy to identify. If you bought some decent sized SWO bare roots you should be able to get them to start producing in under 10 years. I will never plant another burr oak again when SWO is available to me. All the burr oak acorns are cleaned up before the first SWO hits the ground.


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Sounds like either one would be alright. maybe both. Was hoping I could brag about big nuts.

 

[jsasker007]

I agree on taking pressure off the food plots on that same farm my food plots are miserable most years grazed down to dirt unless my row crop guy has winter wheat planted then they do much better. This year he has them tilled and fertilized right now so nothing at all for the deer to eat in the row crop fields. This isn’t always the case he rotates crops so some years like last year you couldn’t hardly chase the deer out of the wheat fields with sticks all fall and winter.

I've been trying to get any of my fall food plots in a little earlier to try to get more growth before it gets cold and plants want to shut down. Rye would have been great this fall but that's most likely because I didn't broadcast any this year. Murphy's law is pretty consistent for me. Just keep plugging away and adding more diversity if possible. Once in a while things actually work out according to plan. Lately the deer have been walking through my plots to eat my lawn. They don't worry or have gotten used to my german shepherd and my husky. Deer will be eating my lawn only about 20' from my german shepherd barking non-stop. I think it's giving my dog a complex. No respect.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've been trying to get any of my fall food plots in a little earlier to try to get more growth before it gets cold and plants want to shut down. Rye would have been great this fall but that's most likely because I didn't broadcast any this year. Murphy's law is pretty consistent for me. Just keep plugging away and adding more diversity if possible. Once in a while things actually work out according to plan. Lately the deer have been walking through my plots to eat my lawn. They don't worry or have gotten used to my german shepherd and my husky. Deer will be eating my lawn only about 20' from my german shepherd barking non-stop. I think it's giving my dog a complex. No respect.

A camp member recently told me a similar story about deer walking right through our apple trees with fruit on the ground, to eat in a mowed field of mixed crap - mostly weeds, leftover rye & brassicas (few) and spotty clover. Seems apples weren't high on their menu that day? Even better food plots didn't attract attention. Go figure.

 

[jsasker007]

A camp member recently told me a similar story about deer walking right through our apple trees with fruit on the ground, to eat in a mowed field of mixed crap - mostly weeds, leftover rye & brassicas (few) and spotty clover. Seems apples weren't high on their menu that day? Even better food plots didn't attract attention. Go figure.

The only thing I could think of was that my lawn was greener than what is left in my plots. Should have broadcast some winter rye I guess.

 

[Teeder]

The last straw for me and food plots was sitting in a stand one time watching a doe walk all through my beautiful plot looking for the stuff I didn't plant! Mostly wild blackberry. I filled them all with trees after that.

 

[Skeeter]

A camp member recently told me a similar story about deer walking right through our apple trees with fruit on the ground, to eat in a mowed field of mixed crap - mostly weeds, leftover rye & brassicas (few) and spotty clover. Seems apples weren't high on their menu that day? Even better food plots didn't attract attention. Go figure.

Wasn't the nutrient profile that their body was telling them they needed that day.

 

[Angus 1895]

I sure wish I hadn’t froze out all my chestnut oaks I got from Minnesota last year.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Wasn't the nutrient profile that their body was telling them they needed that day.

Evidently.

 

[Teeder]

I sure wish I hadn’t froze out all my chestnut oaks I got from Minnesota last year.

One study I read said Chestnut oak produced the least amount of mast on average of all the oaks in the study.
I have one that I planted 20+ years ago and even though it's produced a couple different years, they were sporadic and I probably haven't got 3 dozen acorns from it. By contrast, the English oaks i planted the same year produce thousands of acorns every year.
The only chestnut oak acorns i start now are collected from a tree that is literally growing within a white oak, in an effort to get a Saul hybrid.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I was in town today. I took several pictures of swamp white oaks vs burr oaks. I really like how the SWO hangs onto those leaves into the winter. Also love the later acorn drop. Also got a picture of a crab apple tree in front of McDonalds. That thing was bigly loaded with little apples. I hope to see crabs like that in my woods some day. Hopefully I convince a few of you to plant some SWO and crab apples.

 

[OakSeeds]

Did You Know? Some Trees Hold Their Dead Leaves Through Winter

Each autumn, the leaves of trees throughout the Forest Preserves transition from […]

fpdcc.com

 

[Bowsnbucks]

One study I read said Chestnut oak produced the least amount of mast on average of all the oaks in the study.
I have one that I planted 20+ years ago and even though it's produced a couple different years, they were sporadic and I probably haven't got 3 dozen acorns from it. By contrast, the English oaks i planted the same year produce thousands of acorns every year.
The only chestnut oak acorns i start now are collected from a tree that is literally growing within a white oak, in an effort to get a Saul hybrid.

I wonder if it varies by tree? Or location? I drive by several Chestnut oaks on a remote mountain road each year and they drop loads of acorns onto the road and into the surrounding woods. They sprout root radicles right away too - I brought some back to camp & planted them. Maybe being along a mountain road gets them more sunlight than others deeper in the woods???

The ones we have in our camp woods seem to draw deer easily.

 

[Catscratch]

I was in town today. I took several pictures of swamp white oaks vs burr oaks. I really like how the SWO hangs onto those leaves into the winter. Also love the later acorn drop. Also got a picture of a crab apple tree in front of McDonalds. That thing was bigly loaded with little apples. I hope to see crabs like that in my woods some day. Hopefully I convince a few of you to plant some SWO and crab apples.






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Sawtooths do the same for me (hold onto their leaves through the winter). It's a great alternative to cedar trees when looking for a screen, but you wouldn't want to use them as a screen where you don't want deer (road) because they do have a draw for a couple of weeks.