MO just approved Xbows.

[UP Powers]

Pull out the PETA card. I hear that on various sites. Push an agenda and if someone doesn't agree they should Join PETA.

Keep it legal in your state, hope it never is legal here. We have too many long seasons and too many hunters already.

Disability and over age 60 no issues, if you want to hunt with a bow, buy a bow.

Glad you have that view. Very glad that its legal here and gives people options to hunt. Glad that you feel age is a qualification for using a crossbow and the thought of being disabled. I don't feel age or someones ability has anything to do with hunting. I am quite pleased that I am healthy, strong, young, and in great shape and I can use a crossbow. I love the fact that I can choose the weapons I want to bring out to my blinds. Sometimes I bring my long bow, compound bow, cross bow, rifle, muzzle loader, and inline muzzleloader. I would be sick to my stomach if the state said I couldn't use a muzzleloader with a cap and I only had to use an inline with a 209 primer. My old one was made by my dad and it's a great feeling carrying that gun in the field. I get the same feeling when I am carrying his old army carbine that he had. It provides me with a great hunting experience and gives me time to reflect on him and how I can influence my son and daughter in the hunting sports. Geez, my son LOVES and I mean LOVES modern sporting rifles! The optics these things have are amazing!! The rate of fire and the accessories are awesome! It sure is funny to hear about the OLD guard up and arms about those too! I am so glad that the constitution protects my son and his love for modern guns. He gets a kick out of the old school carbine, but like he says of the modern rifles, "the stock is adjustable, you can have two different sights on it, you can attach a flashlight, have a handle on the bottom, and extra shots!!" I tell him it's not my cup of tea, but I love you and I am glad you love the sport I cherish. Funny how OLD people don't like the change in technology in firearms and bows.

What are the let offs again on those bows everyone is using? I am sure it's not 85%??? right??

 

[bwoods11]

The kids in my area love their bows, and there are many involved, no shortage. They shoot carp in the spring and summer to fine tune their skills, way more kids with bows than when I grew up.

Trap shooting is growing like crazy in MN--it is the fastest growing high school sport in MN---so the argument that we need crossbows to ensure that we have hunters in the future is just a marketing technique by the crossbow industry.

 

[kabic]

I have to agree with UP Powers. Just because you dont want to hunt with a cross bow doesn't make a person who does inferior.

 

[Big Snow Man]

Predictable responses. Baiting is about as divisive. Any blue ribbon barbless catchnrelease only trout streams in your area? Lets allow multiple treble hooks with garden meat, sein nets, batteries and jumper cables. Thats fishin right? I am shocked to learn from this thread that a)virtually all xbow hits are passthrus b) 1 hunting camp has Never lost a xbow hit deer c) guys here can shoot an almost perfect 3d score with a 10 lb xbow Offhand! Exceptional results. Disabled aside ,why would someone choose a stupid easy weapon if you love to hunt? Make it 1 buck/year max like ohio and simply choose any weapon starting 9/1. An xbow is not archery. Both the py club and bc club agree. I will use an xbow when i cant pull back the minimum 40 lb. draw weight.

In my situation my work volume ramps up in the fall and I don't have the time to practice with a compound bow. With that said I have been sitting on the sideline and not hunting during the rut. With a crossbow it will give me that chance to go out in the woods for a few hours and enjoy my property. Otherwise it would be gun season only. I'm hoping to get one next spring.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

How many prior archery guys who bought an xbow actually killed a buck this year with their old equipment? .

I did. OK, Mathews sent me their gold class, top end xbow for free, I didn't buy it, but I used it late season last year in IL. Heart shot a buck at 52 yards, couldn't find the bolt, as it was a pass through and sunk into the dirt somewhere I couldn't find (glad the farmer didn't find it either). The buck didn't make it as far as the shot was before crumbling. buck kill this year with a vertical.

I've bow hunted all year with the new vertical they sent me. I'll likely try to fill my IL doe tag and TRY to fill my WI buck tag with the xbow now (was only able to get out once in WI before now, took the vertical, despite buying the xbow license option). I personally think verticals are MUCH better from tree stands than xbows. Ground blinds or enclosed box blinds, xbows have the advantage. I enjoyed the xbow sits last year (though it was a mistake taking them up in trees, IMO), but I enjoy the vertical sits too. Personally, as far as I'm personally concerned, I believe I have a distinct advantage with a vertical in tree stands over xbows, but that flips when in any enclosed blind. Both are fun in their own way.

 

[UP Powers]

Predictable responses. Baiting is about as divisive. Any blue ribbon barbless catchnrelease only trout streams in your area? Lets allow multiple treble hooks with garden meat, sein nets, batteries and jumper cables. Thats fishin right? I am shocked to learn from this thread that a)virtually all xbow hits are passthrus b) 1 hunting camp has Never lost a xbow hit deer c) guys here can shoot an almost perfect 3d score with a 10 lb xbow Offhand! Exceptional results. Disabled aside ,why would someone choose a stupid easy weapon if you love to hunt? Make it 1 buck/year max like ohio and simply choose any weapon starting 9/1. An xbow is not archery. Both the py club and bc club agree. I will use an xbow when i cant pull back the minimum 40 lb. draw weight.

Predictable responses from the OLD OLD guard. Why can't I fish trout streams with a Mepps spinner and a crawler? They bite just fine. If they are allowed why not? They taste the same. If the river calls for barbless hooks, than that is fine.

I do agree with you on the 3D shoot and how you can shoot so well. I have never shot a 3D course with one and I would think it would be a challenge off hand. Stupid easy?? Wow! Hardly. I personally think shooting a cross bow off hand is much harder than a vertical bow. PY club and BC club is about scoring an animal for having your name in a book. I am quite sure that the validity of those trophies are compliant at 100%. I wonder how many had light up sights? I wonder how many used their range finders on their bows?

40lb draw weight with a 85% let off. Hmmm 6lbs? Yikes. Archery is not the bows I see advertised. Machined risers, one cams. These things look like they are from another planet. pulling 60lbs with an 85% let off. Wow.. you must be able to hold that for a while. 9lbs hold?? Try holding a long bow at 60lbs for a minute. When you are shaking like a dog crapping a peach pit after 10 seconds get back to me.

 

[UP Powers]

I did. OK, Mathews sent me their gold class, top end xbow for free, I didn't buy it, but I used it late season last year in IL. Heart shot a buck at 52 yards, couldn't find the bolt, as it was a pass through and sunk into the dirt somewhere I couldn't find (glad the farmer didn't find it either). The buck didn't make it as far as the shot was before crumbling. buck kill this year with a vertical.

I've bow hunted all year with the new vertical they sent me. I'll likely try to fill my IL doe tag and TRY to fill my WI buck tag with the xbow now (was only able to get out once in WI before now, took the vertical, despite buying the xbow license option). I personally think verticals are MUCH better from tree stands than xbows. Ground blinds or enclosed box blinds, xbows have the advantage. I enjoyed the xbow sits last year (though it was a mistake taking them up in trees, IMO), but I enjoy the vertical sits too. Personally, as far as I'm personally concerned, I believe I have a distinct advantage with a vertical in tree stands over xbows, but that flips when in any enclosed blind. Both are fun in their own way.

amen.

 

[bwoods11]

I have to agree with UP Powers. Just because you dont want to hunt with a cross bow doesn't make a person who does inferior.

It's not a superior or inferior argument. There are a lot of hunters who feel that archery seasons are for archery equipment, and I am one of them. Our seasons in MN have been changed and we now have 25 days of gun seasons, compared to 9 or 10 when I was younger. The buck quality and number of deer have decreased by 50% or more in my area.

I'd like to see seasons shortened (not increased). All seasons including archery. Any new season they propose, I would be against, because the deer are over hunted the way it is.

 

[UP Powers]

Re letoff. Huge difference between the act of drawing back to 85% vs squeezing a trigger thru a scope already cocked@100%. The py club also agrees. Ask mn how changing the gun opener 20 years ago to peak rut worked out for them. Btw, not 1 of my bowhunting buddies has switched nor would they until they had to physically. I put the same asterisk on an able bodied xbow guy as a high fence guy. In wisconsin you can now use both. How many prior archery guys who bought an xbow actually killed a buck this year with their old equipment? My guess is not many. Why? Because xbows are stupid easy for the kill, i mean the joy of lugging a 10 lb anchor thru the woods for the pure asthetics and romance of the kill, i mean hunt.bottom line is the dnr wants more license $$$$ and mo dead deer. Xbows fits thier agenda nicely.

I could careless what PY or BC says about what I hunt with or where my name ends up in any books. Sounds like the OLD guard. Xbows are clunky. heavy. sometimes a pain to aim. Vertical bows are much more agile and way more versatile. The best part of a crossbow like you said, it's cocked locked and ready to rock. The vertical bow you need to draw and hold the 9lbs for a while until the deer makes it into the perfect position. I don't have an 85% let off on my vertical and my long bow. zero let off. :) It's a blast shooting them OLD school with a long bow. It's a blast shooting them with a crossbow. Hell, it's a blast shooting deer.

 

[wiscwhip]

In my situation my work volume ramps up in the fall and I don't have the time to practice with a compound bow. With that said I have been sitting on the sideline and not hunting during the rut. With a crossbow it will give me that chance to go out in the woods for a few hours and enjoy my property. Otherwise it would be gun season only. I'm hoping to get one next spring.

This is the same exact boat I am in as well. I do not have near enough time to practice with a vertical bow(to my own personal liking, I have pretty high standards, as I used to shoot competitively) and still have time to get in the woods to do any actual hunting, so for many years I have only been a rifle season hunter. I hunted for 14 seasons with a vertical bow and harvested deer every season, also lost 2 over the course of those 14 years. I am glad that WI has given me another option of taking up deer hunting in some season other than the November rifle season. If it were not for the legalization of crossbows, I would not have this new opportunity. I have not pulled the trigger on purchasing a crossbow yet, but I am strongly considering it this off season. I enjoyed my time hunting during the rut very much when I archery hunted and my high personal standards for accuracy with a vertical bow and the amount of practice hours it takes to achieve that level have hindered that opportunity up to this point.

I suppose someone will bitch that I would like to see the WI DNR allow blackpowder revolvers during the muzzleloader season as well, because goodness knows loading those through the cylinder gives me a "huge advantage":rolleyes: over the 200 yard, scoped in-lines that load through the end of the barrel and are perfectly legal. :rolleyes: Or that I also believe the atlatl should be a "legal" weapon during some season(archery would come to mind, as one would essentially be throwing a spear at the deer), but OMG we wouldn't want to infringe on those "archery purists" :eek: with our ancient weapon technology now would we?

 

[UP Powers]

Wisc Whip. HAHAHAHHAHA Love it! Archery purists. OLD OLD OLD people for sure. Not old enough to remember everyone up in arms over the switch from long bows to compound bows. But, that is FINE.. whatever PY and BC dictates that makes it ok. PHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Everyone follows the rules in PY and BC. That argument is an absolute joke and comical. This is about hunting, not about a name in a book. I can bring you around the UP and show you some bucks that have never made it some "book". Why?? who cares!!!! These old timers hunted to hunt and didn't care about their name in a book. They HUNTED!

 

[JackTerp]

Can anyone remember when P&Y and B&C would not recognize an animal taken with a compound bow? At least until the corporate advertisers reminded them of who is paying the bills.

This type of discussion can go on forever. Which is better, Ford or Chevy. Who's is longest. Who cares. We sound like Liberal Democrats trying to talk to staunch Republicans. If it's legal use it . If you don't like it, don't use it.

I, for one, will hunt with whatever I damned well please. If that rubs some people the wrong way, tough. Get over it. If you want to discuss facts, fine. If you want to just pull crap out of the air, I got better things to do. Think I'll go shoot my crossbow or clean the .50 cal squirrel gun.

And, by the way, I checked with our camp historian. Four of us have used crossbows on our property over the past five years. The four of us have harvested 13 deer. Thirteen passthroughs and all one shot kills, no losses. Over the 12 years we have owned the land, we have had 18 different people bowhunt the land. They have combined harvests of 57 deer. That includes about 9 youngsters. The 18 bowhunters have wounded a known 23 deer that were not found. And they missed at least twice that many. All with compounds. We only have 2 members who do not bowhunt. They have lost 3 deer, wounded with a rifle and not found.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

NoFo
Yes, I would have taken the same shot w a vertical and have, in the exact same scenario (head down, broadside, feeding, completely relaxed and ranged yardage....exact same results...heart shot -I always aim for the heart at over 30, in case they drop- ran a smidge further, but that one crumbled in 65ish yards, the other to in under 100 yards, 2 bucks, 1 doe). That's my max shooting range w a vertical or a xbow, but all the conditions outlined above must be met, including little wind. I've only shot 1 deer with a xbow so far. So, 100% harvest rate at that range with a xbow. In all my years, I've shot at 4 deer at 50 with a vertical, 3 heart shots, 1 miss under him. So, 75% with a vertical, but haven't shot anywhere close to enough deer at that range with either to draw any meaningful conclusions.

No doubt I'd shoot better 3d with a vertical than an xbow offhand. That said, I've shot vertical since I was 10 and have never once shot a xbow offhand. I'm a freak in that I'd rather shoot a deer at 50 (assuming all my conditions for that shot being met) with a bow than I would a gun. I'm MUCH more comfortable shooting bows than guns, always have been. I don't pretend to be a great bow shot (not being falsely modest...I know great bow shots and I'm NOT one.), but I'm a lot better at making shots with a bow than I am with a gun. The only reason I have a 100% kill rate with a gun is because I know I'm a bad shot. So, I focus more and am extremely selective in my shots. 120 yards is the furthest gun shot I've ever taken at a deer, and that's with a solid rest. I can't ever see taking a further shot than that, and it met all the criteria I demand for taking a 50 yard bow shot.

P.S. I'm NOT arguing with you or anyone else. IMO, you're all entitled to have whatever opinion you want on this. I'm merely sharing my experiences/thoughts.

 

[sandbur]

It's not a superior or inferior argument. There are a lot of hunters who feel that archery seasons are for archery equipment, and I am one of them. Our seasons in MN have been changed and we now have 25 days of gun seasons, compared to 9 or 10 when I was younger. The buck quality and number of deer have decreased by 50% or more in my area.

I'd like to see seasons shortened (not increased). All seasons including archery. Any new season they propose, I would be against, because the deer are over hunted the way it is.

You and I disagree on many things concerning deer management, but we both feel the resource should always come first when discussing season expansions. There are many good reasons for expanding the x bow season, youth opportunities, those short of time to practice, all great reasons... just like doe tags for anyone over 84, why not over over 74, or over 60, or for all veterans, or firearms seasons for 3 months like some of the tribes do...shouldn't we all have equal opportunity?

My point is,there are many good reasons, but LOOK AT THE RESOURCE FIRST. Can your deer herd stand the pressure over the long term with bad winters, wolves, EHD, tribal harvest, coyotes, and piss poor management from the state?

 

[sandbur]

Could someone post the deer harvests for crossbow and bow in Wis?

I thought I read that at one point xbow hunters were 30% of the bow hunters and had killed 50% of the deer.

My gut feeling is that it is inevitable that Mn. will get it. The discussions just might be the time to bring in other discussions about hunter restraint, making good choices based on your deer herd, and not abusing present laws like party hunting or youth only tags to fill the freezer. We get crossbows and season will need to be cut back if hunters don't start making better decisions.

 

[UP Powers]

NoFo
Yes, I would have taken the same shot w a vertical and have, in the exact same scenario (head down, broadside, feeding, completely relaxed and ranged yardage....exact same results...heart shot -I always aim for the heart at over 30, in case they drop- ran a smidge further, but that one crumbled in 65ish yards, the other to in under 100 yards, 2 bucks, 1 doe). That's my max shooting range w a vertical or a xbow, but all the conditions outlined above must be met, including little wind. I've only shot 1 deer with a xbow so far. So, 100% harvest rate at that range with a xbow. In all my years, I've shot at 4 deer at 50 with a vertical, 3 heart shots, 1 miss under him. So, 75% with a vertical, but haven't shot anywhere close to enough deer at that range with either to draw any meaningful conclusions.

No doubt I'd shoot better 3d with a vertical than an xbow offhand. That said, I've shot vertical since I was 10 and have never once shot a xbow offhand. I'm a freak in that I'd rather shoot a deer at 50 (assuming all my conditions for that shot being met) with a bow than I would a gun. I'm MUCH more comfortable shooting bows than guns, always have been. I don't pretend to be a great bow shot (not being falsely modest...I know great bow shots and I'm NOT one.), but I'm a lot better at making shots with a bow than I am with a gun. The only reason I have a 100% kill rate with a gun is because I know I'm a bad shot. So, I focus more and am extremely selective in my shots. 120 yards is the furthest gun shot I've ever taken at a deer, and that's with a solid rest. I can't ever see taking a further shot than that, and it met all the criteria I demand for taking a 50 yard bow shot.

P.S. I'm NOT arguing with you or anyone else. IMO, you're all entitled to have whatever opinion you want on this. I'm merely sharing my experiences/thoughts.

Thats cool actually and I think you went up in value with this post in my mind. Love great hunters with open minds. Super cool! Wild you would rather shoot a bow at 50 than a rifle. 120 yards at a deer farthest shot! Wow! I would love to see some people on here take a shot at 120 with iron sights at a deer, although I am sure you used a scope as I would have too. I don't know what my farthest shot is? I think just a tic over 300 and the wind was calm. Ballistic tips did what they needed to do, opened with rapid expansion and massive damage. Technology! :)

 

[UP Powers]

Can anyone remember when P&Y and B&C would not recognize an animal taken with a compound bow? At least until the corporate advertisers reminded them of who is paying the bills.

This type of discussion can go on forever. Which is better, Ford or Chevy. Who's is longest. Who cares. We sound like Liberal Democrats trying to talk to staunch Republicans. If it's legal use it . If you don't like it, don't use it.

I, for one, will hunt with whatever I damned well please. If that rubs some people the wrong way, tough. Get over it. If you want to discuss facts, fine. If you want to just pull crap out of the air, I got better things to do. Think I'll go shoot my crossbow or clean the .50 cal squirrel gun.

And, by the way, I checked with our camp historian. Four of us have used crossbows on our property over the past five years. The four of us have harvested 13 deer. Thirteen passthroughs and all one shot kills, no losses. Over the 12 years we have owned the land, we have had 18 different people bowhunt the land. They have combined harvests of 57 deer. That includes about 9 youngsters. The 18 bowhunters have wounded a known 23 deer that were not found. And they missed at least twice that many. All with compounds. We only have 2 members who do not bowhunt. They have lost 3 deer, wounded with a rifle and not found.

LOVE IT!!!! exactly.. OLD guard ... OLD people.

 

[bwoods11]

UP---Sorry it should have been obvious by your title that you hunt in the UP of Michigan and that was an oversight on my part. We are all not as fortunate to hunt in an area like the UP with high deer numbers and multiple big bucks roaming the countryside.

Crossbows and any other weapon will make not a dent in the population in that area. I live in an area of average to low deer numbers therefore I am not afforded your luxury.

 

[Big Snow Man]

Can anyone remember when P&Y and B&C would not recognize an animal taken with a compound bow? At least until the corporate advertisers reminded them of who is paying the bills.

This type of discussion can go on forever. Which is better, Ford or Chevy. Who's is longest. Who cares. We sound like Liberal Democrats trying to talk to staunch Republicans. If it's legal use it . If you don't like it, don't use it.

I, for one, will hunt with whatever I damned well please. If that rubs some people the wrong way, tough. Get over it. If you want to discuss facts, fine. If you want to just pull crap out of the air, I got better things to do. Think I'll go shoot my crossbow or clean the .50 cal squirrel gun.

And, by the way, I checked with our camp historian. Four of us have used crossbows on our property over the past five years. The four of us have harvested 13 deer. Thirteen passthroughs and all one shot kills, no losses. Over the 12 years we have owned the land, we have had 18 different people bowhunt the land. They have combined harvests of 57 deer. That includes about 9 youngsters. The 18 bowhunters have wounded a known 23 deer that were not found. And they missed at least twice that many. All with compounds. We only have 2 members who do not bowhunt. They have lost 3 deer, wounded with a rifle and not found.

Amen Brother !!

 

[bueller]

Could someone post the deer harvests for crossbow and bow in Wis?

I thought I read that at one point xbow hunters were 30% of the bow hunters and had killed 50% of the deer.

My gut feeling is that it is inevitable that Mn. will get it. The discussions just might be the time to bring in other discussions about hunter restraint, making good choices based on your deer herd, and not abusing present laws like party hunting or youth only tags to fill the freezer. We get crossbows and season will need to be cut back if hunters don't start making better decisions.

.....................Antlered Antlerless Total
2015 Archery= 28809 18149 46958
2015 Crossbow= 18420 10473 28893