Foggy, I would love to hold a tour, but the land is owned by my uncle, who is in assisted living. I have a cousin that lives on the road into the farm. She has nothing better to do than watch vehicles go down the dead end road. The property is to be divided 6 ways, some only wait for uncle to expire. Would love to purchase 80 acres we hunt, the farm is 160 acres. If you could do a video it could be done.
Minnesota Deer: The Search For Answers
- Thread starter SD51555
- Start date
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
And therein lies the caveat. It is the same everywhere and in many other aspects of life other than deer hunting. It is human nature and globally accepted. Everyone will affect each others "personal goals" and until that mindset changes on a global scale(statewide where deer hunting is concerned), you will get nowhere. This is one reason co-ops are so hard to form in the first place. The guy looking to harvest only mature bucks will affect the brown is down guy who is trying to fill his freezer, and vice versa. The guy looking for a quality hunting experience will affect the guy who buys a license to go "up north" for the week and "hunt" just to get out of the house and drink beer, the list goes on.
Riggsgwp->
5 year old buck +
I hear what your saying Brooks but it's getting to the point where people like all of us need something to be part of that makes us feel good about hunting in this state. MDDI was supposed to be that but it's been a long depressing battle with essentially a powerful gov. entity against hunters. (Not trying to offend you on your efforts) I have not invested to the point others have in large acreage but if I did my only option would be coop or sell. I dont know what the answer is.
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bat man
Guest
I like the landowner tours the way they are where I learn and hopefully share and everybody else does the same. They are quality events with no downside. Everybody benefits.
If there is a way to expand it, I am guessing it would include membership or attendance fees that would be spent on --------- that would benefit all involved, and especially those who are loaning a skill set that every few can appreciate. You would have to reimburse the guys that are teaching these things to guys they do not know.
If there is a way to expand it, I am guessing it would include membership or attendance fees that would be spent on --------- that would benefit all involved, and especially those who are loaning a skill set that every few can appreciate. You would have to reimburse the guys that are teaching these things to guys they do not know.
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bat man
Guest
Here is my shot at the crystal ball.
Stakeholder process shakes out a 20 dpsm pre fawn per square mile of deer habitat south of Brainerd, and 15 north of Brainerd (+or- 20%). These goals are basically what we are looking at currently.
Many more people realize the situation and start laying off the does in pockets. DNR's only hope of hitting goal is horrible winters, and lacking that, more areas back into intensive, managed, even some APR etc.
Those that manage start seeing better bucks as APR's let young bucks walk.
I am not advocating for APR's.
What I don't understand is why WI is not using APR in areas they can not get the deer numbers down in. Can somebody tell me why the overpopulated areas of WI are not APR?
Stakeholder process shakes out a 20 dpsm pre fawn per square mile of deer habitat south of Brainerd, and 15 north of Brainerd (+or- 20%). These goals are basically what we are looking at currently.
Many more people realize the situation and start laying off the does in pockets. DNR's only hope of hitting goal is horrible winters, and lacking that, more areas back into intensive, managed, even some APR etc.
Those that manage start seeing better bucks as APR's let young bucks walk.
I am not advocating for APR's.
What I don't understand is why WI is not using APR in areas they can not get the deer numbers down in. Can somebody tell me why the overpopulated areas of WI are not APR?
Riggsgwp->
5 year old buck +
Will LOU work to fix our deer woes? I don't know.
Will LOU be proactive, educational, self sustaining, anti-DNR, fun as heck? I believe so.
Foggy I like the idea of having seminars by habitat consultants like Steve B. Obviously paying them for their services. I could also see Brooks doing a seminar on harvest goals/objectives also being paid for his service.
Will LOU be proactive, educational, self sustaining, anti-DNR, fun as heck? I believe so.
Foggy I like the idea of having seminars by habitat consultants like Steve B. Obviously paying them for their services. I could also see Brooks doing a seminar on harvest goals/objectives also being paid for his service.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Partly CWD spread concerns, the science says it would make things worse. Partly because even the Fudd's in WI would not have it and it would go all the way up the ladder to Madison like it has in the past with EAB. With the upcoming vote by the NRB, APR's will be off the table for at least the next 3 years. Besides that, apparently not many here see overpopulated areas as an issue, only 6 out of 72 CDAC committees voted to decrease the herd numbers. All others voted to increase or maintain, even a bunch of units in the old CDW Intensive Harvest Zone.
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bat man
Guest
Think of it like this. And its very depressing.
If we teach 1/3rd of the landowners in a zone how to form a coop to hold 3 times the area average dpsm, there are zero deer left in the rest of the unit.
I know its not possible, but the point is at these low densities, areas have the ability to rob almost all the neighborhood deer. I have guys 2 miles from me going 0 for 9 the whole season when I am watching 20+ deer in a field in some nights.
If we teach 1/3rd of the landowners in a zone how to form a coop to hold 3 times the area average dpsm, there are zero deer left in the rest of the unit.
I know its not possible, but the point is at these low densities, areas have the ability to rob almost all the neighborhood deer. I have guys 2 miles from me going 0 for 9 the whole season when I am watching 20+ deer in a field in some nights.
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bat man
Guest
...per square mile of deer habitat. Likely right at 9.something where you are at now.
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bat man
Guest
If you get a 25% bump I am guessing it is because your estimated dpsm was lowered 15% before the DNR hits the calculate button.
I don't think any bumps are coming to goals.
% deer habitat X 20 dpsm for 215 is my guess. You will know when 221 and 222 are complete.
I think we would need to call this movement what it is. A system to improve the deer hunting for people who wish to participate. If the majority choose to blindly follow the DNR retoric and go 0 for 9 during their season, there would surely be converts of some and others would continue to pressure the DNR. Especially if a group bucking the DNR system is effectively getting their message out about its own population increase success.
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bat man
Guest
We may not win any popularity contests in the local community? Laughing my butt off as I type-
Your right there, but I am like a lot of guys on here. I will sleep just fine after seeing 50 or 60 deer during my 9 day rifle season while my neighbors cry themselves to sleep because of the weather, no rut activity, wolves, or whatever other excuse the DNR gives them and they choose to believe. Hopefully in time, other landowners will come around.
Your absolutely right. It took the current system several years to get our herd this far in the toilet and that system is firmly entrenched. It will take a slow, steady, patient effort to change it. In the meantime, we can help ourselves and maybe convince a few others along the way to do the same.
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bat man
Guest
You underestimate the big picture plan. Our DNR knew exactly what they were doing chipping away at the herd 7 - 9% per year.
SE MN was the first area to go through the process a second time, and they voted to decrease the herd further down there without knowing it. There will be some deer coming back to northern MN, but nowhere near what we had 10 years ago. Mid MN is likely where they want it for numbers, perhaps even a bit high in central and east central MN where hunter satisfaction sits at 26%.
Batman,
Through the information I have gathered from you, this site, and a wealth of others, I believe I am much more aware than the general public about how the DNR has forced their agenda on all of us and done it quite underhandedly. I'm just saying that until the DNR can be forced to operate with transparency, integrity, and with sound biological data, we will need to take care of ourselves as best we can.
Through the information I have gathered from you, this site, and a wealth of others, I believe I am much more aware than the general public about how the DNR has forced their agenda on all of us and done it quite underhandedly. I'm just saying that until the DNR can be forced to operate with transparency, integrity, and with sound biological data, we will need to take care of ourselves as best we can.
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
Stu--You know more about Wisconsin that I do, but why wouldn't counties such as Buffalo/SW Wisconsin want APR when most of the guys pass on the small bucks anyway?? Or maybe it is not most of the guys?
Riggsgwp->
5 year old buck +
Stu I'd like to see some of our deer groups go F themselves. Just saying......
Sorry I should have quoted your earlier comment.
Sorry I should have quoted your earlier comment.
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
That is probably correct, but I would prefer to see 51% 2 year old bucks in the harvest here in MN. It would allow some 2 and 3 year olds to make it to actual maturity. That is very rare right now here, unless there is a nasty big swamp they can hunker down in.
Some counties it will work, others it won't
Some counties it will work, others it won't
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bat man
Guest
I concur but hate the resignation. My aim in all this was philanthropic. 80 + % of the hunters in MN that fund all of our wildlife dept salaries hunt a few days a year. They deserve so much better afield.
When hunter dollars no longer fund the forests and wildlife that live there, our voice will matter none.
The reductions to our herd have been done for no legitimate reason and I hope we can get some change, but have hit mostly resistance from those in control.
It defies logic. Politics and agenda often do.
