Logging Tactics

[NWWI]

We own an 80 in Wisconsin that I am considering logging soon mostly to benefit the wildlife and deer hunting. Our property is separated by an easement and while the deer definitely move back and forth both sides of the easement, they both hunt like different properties. One 40 is definitely better than the other. I want to log a portion of both 40's to create thick browse and bedding which is something we are lacking. My question is should I log both portions at the same time and have two areas with the same age timber regeneration or would it be better to have different ages by cutting one now and one later?

 

[ruskbucks]

I would log them at different times if possible. Cut the one that doesn't hold as many deer first. I like diversity on my land, cutting at different times would create this. I would go over a plan with a forester, see what they say.

 

[ELH]

You may leave some money on the table by splitting the job. With that said, I would have one parcel done now and the other done at a later time.

 

[dipper]

Have them leave everything 8" down to hinge.that will b the best habitat of your county.

 

[tooln]

Since you already know one 40 is better than the other I would do the poor one first. Give it a few years to become better and then do the other.

 

[Buffalohunter1]

I agree, diversity is the key. There are many variables to consider when managing your woodland. The first thing is establishing your goals, which you have. The next question is how long has it been since it was last logged? What is your current make up of your timber stand? Oak, Mixed hardwoods ,Aspen, or Pine all call for different management ( harvesting) techniques. Educate your self the best you can and good luck.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I think it would be best to get quotes for both options - just logging one 40 or logging both 40's. I'm guessing it will cost a couple grand to get the equipment to the site, so logging the two sites separately will lead to two of the setup fees rather than one.

I think logging them separately at staggered times will give you more consistent hunting over the long term, but it will be a question of whether the added costs will be worth the potential benefits.

 

[NWWI]

I appreciate all the input from everyone. You really only have one chance to make the right decision when it comes to logging. Another one of my big issues is whether to clear cut for the best cover or leave some of the big oaks we have. During hunting season cover is always king, but I really hate removing those massive oaks. They attract deer but it always seem like they come after dark. Hunting pressure is high in our area. The select cuts I have seen always have a slower, thinner regeneration rate.

 

[j-bird]

You can still have a select cut - you just need to target more trees or do some hinge cutting afterwards. Oaks are just like any other crop - there comes a time to harvest, you just need to ensure you have a productive crop to take it's place. "Even the mightiest oak will fall to the winds of time." Large, park-like oak flats are often free of any understory and thus the deer feed in them at night. Cover tends to trump food when the pressure is on - at least in my area. Stem density, security and access to food seem to be the things that cause deer to bed where they do on my place. Regeneration is all about sunlight on the ground - some folks do a select cut for fear of cutting a woods too "hard". To error on the side of caution is fine, but it may also make more work for you down the road and leave money on the table. When I cut my place my initial reaction was that I screwed up - turns out I did, but not the way I thought. I initially thought I cut too many - in fact there are a few places we should have cut a little more! Chainsaw is a wonderful wildlife/habitat tool.

 

[dipper]

Leave oaks but keep them spaced out well to get the sunlight to the floor

 

[NWWI]

I tried contacting 6-8 foresters in the area, I got 2 calls back. The first guy got right back so I had him go through our property to evaluate harvest potential. He said we only had one small area with the potential to harvest. I do not claim to know any better than a professional, but I have my doubts since you can see across most of the property. I'm sure there are many variables that I have not taken into consideration or aware of. I had another guy contact me a week and a half after my first call that said he was interested. I will most likely get a second opinion.
Any thoughts from you guys with experience? I was envisioning large thick bedding areas. I don't mind hinging but I thought there might have been more potential.

 

[j-bird]

Just because you have a weak understory doesn't really mean you have marketable timber. If the tree trunks are not very big around - if you can get your arms around them - they are not going to yield enough boards to make their harvest worth while (hardwoods). You may have lots of trees that are smaller than that that are simply forming a dense canopy. If that is the case you may have to consider removing trees that are simply going to end up as firewood or delay your timing to allow these trees to reach a more marketable size which could take years or maybe even a decade or more depending on the size and types of trees you have. It could also depend on the market in your area. You may have to talk to the forester and make sure he understands your goals. If you are essentially willing to break even on the harvest and not make much at all that may not be clear to him. Most folks when they talk timber harvest want a significant payday and as such that changes the game in the head of your forester. Where there is a will there is a way - just be open to other alternatives if a true timber harvest isn't in your near future.

 

[ruskbucks]

I tried contacting 6-8 foresters in the area, I got 2 calls back. The first guy got right back so I had him go through our property to evaluate harvest potential. He said we only had one small area with the potential to harvest. I do not claim to know any better than a professional, but I have my doubts since you can see across most of the property. I'm sure there are many variables that I have not taken into consideration or aware of. I had another guy contact me a week and a half after my first call that said he was interested. I will most likely get a second opinion.
Any thoughts from you guys with experience? I was envisioning large thick bedding areas. I don't mind hinging but I thought there might have been more potential.

Where in NW WI is your property located?

 

[NWWI]

J- Bird that puts what we have into perspective. I have the property for hunting with no real goals of trying to capitalize a profit at this time. I want to create the best property for hunting I can. I have done hinge cutting and had immediate success. Some areas that were devoid of deer activity have had a deer or two hole up in the hinge cut during gun season. I need to be patient or go about things a different way.
Ruskbucks, we are in southern Washburn County.

 

[j-bird]

I didn't intend on making money on logging either, but I sure am not going to ignore it (my harvest netted me have more in wildlife improvement and dollars in my pocket than I expected and I left my prime trees stand). Most of my timber was in narrow strips and small blocks so I could allow certain prime trees to remain or grow without having a negative impact and we removed a lot of timber sized junk trees. I left the oak and walnut (even though walnut isn't much of a wildlife tree). We also left what wasn't big enough......yet. I am looking at another harvest in say 10 or 15 years. I am even going back now and cutting some trees for firewood - ones that are low value or damaged or mis-formed - just to get the firewood out of them and get some more light on the ground. I then hinge the even smaller junk trees in certain areas for bedding or screening. A saw is a very versatile tool in the woods. It's how you use it that's important. The key is be certain you want that tree cut - a mistake takes a long time to be addressed, so have a plan.

 

[ruskbucks]

I appreciate all the input from everyone. You really only have one chance to make the right decision when it comes to logging. Another one of my big issues is whether to clear cut for the best cover or leave some of the big oaks we have. During hunting season cover is always king, but I really hate removing those massive oaks. They attract deer but it always seem like they come after dark. Hunting pressure is high in our area. The select cuts I have seen always have a slower, thinner regeneration rate.

I had the same trouble with foresters about 5 years ago. I had hired one to do a mfl plan for me. I fired him because he didn't do a thing in almost a year and he missed the3 year mfl deadline and the rates got jack up. I just hired a new forester. I was really happy with the walk thru he did on my land. He is a traditional bow hunter and a member of the ruffed grouse society, I liked this because he knows a lot about how to create wildlife habitat not just max timber production. He seemed to listen to what I wanted and suggested ideas on what to do. I like diversity, so we are doing a few small clear cuts(1-2 acres) and the rest will be select cut, taking mostly the poor quality and crowded trees out. I was supposed to have my trees marked last Oct and cut this winter or next, but due to the wet weather it didn't get done. I talked to him a few weeks ago and he is suppose to mark soon if the snow isn't to deep. My forester is Peter Anderson from Sound Forestry Management. I think he would go up by you, I'm in S Rusk cty. I wish I had my cutting done so I could give a good recommendation, but I only had the walk thru so far.

 

[NWWI]

I had the same trouble with foresters about 5 years ago. I had hired one to do a mfl plan for me. I fired him because he didn't do a thing in almost a year and he missed the3 year mfl deadline and the rates got jack up. I just hired a new forester. I was really happy with the walk thru he did on my land. He is a traditional bow hunter and a member of the ruffed grouse society, I liked this because he knows a lot about how to create wildlife habitat not just max timber production. He seemed to listen to what I wanted and suggested ideas on what to do. I like diversity, so we are doing a few small clear cuts(1-2 acres) and the rest will be select cut, taking mostly the poor quality and crowded trees out. I was supposed to have my trees marked last Oct and cut this winter or next, but due to the wet weather it didn't get done. I talked to him a few weeks ago and he is suppose to mark soon if the snow isn't to deep. My forester is Peter Anderson from Sound Forestry Management. I think he would go up by you, I'm in S Rusk cty. I wish I had my cutting done so I could give a good recommendation, but I only had the walk thru so far.

I will try and contact him. His being a bow hunter and part of RGS would be an influence on my decision. While my main focus would be whitetail hunting, I really enjoy grouse as well. Obviously late season hunting, but they are fun to watch while bow hunting. And typically where there are grouse there are deer. The RGS was working with the county on one of their large forests by me about 25 years ago. For quite some time the area did very well for all kinds of hunting. Everyone in the area benefitted. I have not seen the RGS presence in the area lately and things are not going as good.
I appreciate every ones input. It's easier to think things through with others giving their opinion.

 

[dipper]

Don't get forestry advice from a logger. They will high grade your woods, and screw you. You also don't necessarily want to get habitat advice from a forester either. If you were close to me I'd help you out, but I don't really have the time either.

 

[NWWI]

I had another forester contact me and walk our property. He seemed to be in the same boat as the first guy but he explained his logic much better. We have very little aspen that is ready for harvest. We have maples, oaks and birch. We have a little over 20 acres that are ready for harvest but he wants to remove everything but the larger oaks. So it would be a cutting to manage the oaks. He said about 1/3 of the trees would be left. It sounds to me like I could still have a good canopy and would have less than ideal ground cover regeneration with this cut. Am I thinking right? I have hunted cut overs like this with a few less oaks in the past and have had good success. Has anyone else had experience with this type of harvest? What I really want is a bedding area, not a wide open oak flat.

 

[dipper]

Sounds a lot better. Can't really ever go wrong opening up the canopy. I'd still have them leave some hinge able trees. It doesn't get any better than a hinge/ select cut combo.