What to do with an oak savannah?

[Hoytvectrix]

We have a couple sections of woods on the new farm that have had cattle throughout for the past 40 years or more. I am assuming at one point these areas were a mixed forest that was eventually clear cut except the hundreds of white, red, and black oaks that remain. There is almost zero understory, I am sure mostly because of the cattle.

Here is a panoramic view taken in February:

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMTh3bWh6eGF6bnFnY3NvNXVoMXEydzIweTI2Z3BxenJ3YTBmd3dmeiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/plrsrRWdA0oqUxFNRC/giphy-downsized-large.gif

This is what it looks like in February:


This is what it looks like in September. Mostly grasses and some other low value woody and herbaceous plants:


I know that several habitat consultants have actually encouraged oak savannahs in some videos taken within the same area as this farm (in northern MO). However, there is almost no woody or herbaceous browse throughout the year and I feel like I can be using this area better. We have almost no younger oaks, but I am assuming those will start to get going now that cattle are no longer around. At some point I will work through the woods and start thinning out the cedars, but I am afraid of doing that all at once because it would be wide open. One positive thing about these sections of woods is that they are all south-facing, so I know that there are some deer that use them in the winter currently, and these areas have a lot of potential for holding more in the future.

I feel like a prescribed fire would likely help stimulate forbs, but does anyone have any experience with this sort of habitat niche?

 

[Brian662]

I don't have any experience but I'd like to learn. If it were me, I would thin out some of those oaks for more sunlight and do some growing season fires.

Beautiful area but I can see why you're looking to improve it, Hoyt!

 

[BenAllgood]

Lookup woodland vs savanna. That looks to be more of a woodland to me. A savanna will be like a prairie with scattered trees across it. I would think you would see some hardwood regeneration unless the cows were on it recently or there is a high deer population. If there are any grasses that are non-native, that would be my first priority to identify and take out. It looks like a really cool place, and I'm excited to see what you turn it into.

 

[omicron1792]

Ok. This is my thing.

Don’t you dare get rid of it.

First. Burn it. I like a 5 year rotation on oak savanna. Burn it late growing season. July/August. If not that big pay someone to do it. If you do it early enough you’ll get some regrowth before winter so not a wasteland. Will favor forbs over grasses.

Second. After burn spray 4 oz/acre of imazapic. Then broadcast an imazapic/plateau tolerant forb mix (Google it). Do this in fall. I make my own mix of same species, but If flush just buy roundstone seed mix. Call them and they will tailor it to where you are.

Three. Add in some grasses, but at only about 2lbs/acre. I like big and little bluestem, Indian grass, switchgrass. As roundstone for Tusca switchgrass in your mix (imi tolerant).

That’s it. Burn every 4-5 years. If forb heavy, so a dormant season burn. If grass heavy late growing season.


For fun mow some lanes through it. Or in October disc some lanes. Both cause a flush of the forbs you planted, and great for hunting.

The grasses I told you will give height and encourage deer because they will feel safer.

The long burn interval will encourage some shrub growth, or you can plant some fire tolerant shrubs.

You’ll get taller grass and forb growth with burns because it will clear the leaf litter.

Read @Native Hunter stuff. His native areas aren’t exactly the same, but close. Will become a Mecca of wildlife and deer. As you get forbs you like going burns will rejuvenate. Also can collect seeds from them and spread them yourself yearly. Great time to do during shed hunting.

Man that’s beautiful.

 

[omicron1792]

I’m burning in next two weeks. I will post videos and pics.

 

[omicron1792]

Something else. Leave strategic small oaks in understory. Not all of them, but some. You want them to be stunted by over story of bigger trees. Kill all the other species (not all but most. I keep some dogwoods and persimmon).

Reason being is oaks take so long to grow. If fire gets one, or one falls (which they do) the 15 year old stunted in understory will then explode and have the age to be producing in a couple of years. If no young ones in understory, then that’s a 20-30 year gap in your woods.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Something else. Leave strategic small oaks in understory. Not all of them, but some. You want them to be stunted by over story of bigger trees. Kill all the other species (not all but most. I keep some dogwoods and persimmon).

Reason being is oaks take so long to grow. If fire gets one, or one falls (which they do) the 15 year old stunted in understory will then explode and have the age to be producing in a couple of years. If no young ones in understory, then that’s a 20-30 year gap in your woods.

We have essentially zero young trees, regardless of species. I have been debating about burning now and then planting bare root hardwoods or just burning and seeing what comes up. Cattle were just removed last year, so it might be too early to tell what will come up.

I appreciate the input. I think we will almost certainly burn. The good thing about cattle is that the fence lines needed to be maintained, so there are really great grass firebreaks at all of the fence lines, so burning will hopefully be reduced risk. I actually question if there is too much grass to get an in-season burn. We are actually going to bring in a forester or two this spring to ask about oaks, but I don't know yet if they will have good recommendations that are wildlife relevant. I don't want lose any time for regeneration, but if burns end up happening, I would like to time the regen oaks after burns.

 

[Bill]

I had some small areas like that. 1 to 2 acre spots. I cut some of those big white oaks down and the regen was good. No cows in over 20 years though.
On my place they were too small to make a decent oak savanna but I did consider it.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Why do you wanna cut those cedars down if there is already no cover? They make great diversity if you ask me. I'd let it go and not touch a damn thing for at least a year if the cattle just left and see what pops. Maybe experiment with a small area. Chainsaw here, fire there, waterhole somewhere else. No need to go all in right away.

 

[omicron1792]

What state are you in @Hoytvectrix?

 

[Turkey Creek]

Man those are some really nice oaks. The canopies have to be pretty full on all of them because your basal area density doesn't look overly high. I too would wait it out a year on doing anything major. Over grazing by cattle really limits growth on a lot of things from seedling trees and shrubs to forbs. If you are really bored you could cull some of the less nice oaks, but man I wish my oaks looked as nice as yours. I decided against the TSI $$ from the USDA simply from the fact that every cedar to them is a bad cedar. Not the case as far as I am concerned. Your cedars look relatively young as well so they don't look like they are producing seed yet.

 

[Telemark]

I would leave it for at least a year and see what the deer do with it since the cows are gone.

Do you want it to be bedding or food? Or both at the same time?

 

[Angus 1895]

It’s beautiful.

Buy some cattle!

Here is a Savannah of Garry Oak in central Oregon

i got some seedlings from these trees!

 

[Catscratch]

Ok. This is my thing.

Don’t you dare get rid of it.

First. Burn it. I like a 5 year rotation on oak savanna. Burn it late growing season. July/August. If not that big pay someone to do it. If you do it early enough you’ll get some regrowth before winter so not a wasteland. Will favor forbs over grasses.

Second. After burn spray 4 oz/acre of imazapic. Then broadcast an imazapic/plateau tolerant forb mix (Google it). Do this in fall. I make my own mix of same species, but If flush just buy roundstone seed mix. Call them and they will tailor it to where you are.

Three. Add in some grasses, but at only about 2lbs/acre. I like big and little bluestem, Indian grass, switchgrass. As roundstone for Tusca switchgrass in your mix (imi tolerant).

That’s it. Burn every 4-5 years. If forb heavy, so a dormant season burn. If grass heavy late growing season.


For fun mow some lanes through it. Or in October disc some lanes. Both cause a flush of the forbs you planted, and great for hunting.

The grasses I told you will give height and encourage deer because they will feel safer.

The long burn interval will encourage some shrub growth, or you can plant some fire tolerant shrubs.

You’ll get taller grass and forb growth with burns because it will clear the leaf litter.

Read @Native Hunter stuff. His native areas aren’t exactly the same, but close. Will become a Mecca of wildlife and deer. As you get forbs you like going burns will rejuvenate. Also can collect seeds from them and spread them yourself yearly. Great time to do during shed hunting.

Man that’s beautiful.

Well said... very well said!

 

[OakSeeds]

2 distinguishing features of an oak savanna include the level of canopy cover (10-30 %) and the open-growth nature of the trees (often with limbs close to the ground since there was little
or no natural pruning).
Two excellent sources for info on oak savannas include .... The Woodlands of Minnesota Landowners Handbook and a publication specific to Mo ... IS-MO6435 Designing an Oak Savanna.

Review of these documents will explain why Ben suggested your property might be considered as an oak woodland instead of an oak savanna ... not that it makes any difference, they are great oak trees worthy of care and protection.

google the following to get info specific to Mo ... I included the MN info since lots of folks on this site hail from the home of the Golden Gophers (not me)
IS-MO6435 Designing an Oak Savanna.

Michigan State Univ has a document with a number of lists regarding plant types for a savanna (they call them oak openings) including graminoides, forbs, shrubs and trees.
https://mnfi.anr.msu.edu/communities/description/10691/oak-openings

 

[Hoytvectrix]

What state are you in @Hoytvectrix?

Northern Missouri

 

[H20fwler]

I think the seed bank will surprise you, leaving it sit a couple years understory growth should start but won't take if you burn.
What are you wanting out of it, do you want to better the wildlife value or esthetics? Do you want it to be productive for particular animals?
List out the priorities you want out of it and go from there, nature is amazing at reclaiming habitat especially with a little help.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I don't know what your goal is for the property, but if the goal is to have the best deer hunting possible, I would recommend making changes. I've hunted a number of farms in SE MN that have similar looking woods and they are cool looking places that are great for turkeys and squirrels, but not for deer. They are too open to be a preferred bedding place and they are so open that it is almost impossible to slip in or out without every deer on the property knowing you are there.

I would not recommend burning the woods unless you want it to continue to look like that. Burning it will kill off all of the young shrubs and many tree seedlings that you need if you want this place to hold more deer. There's a big park about a mile from my house that tries to maintain an oak savannah similar to what you have. They cut all of the young trees and shrubs, then they burn it every few years to look just like your pictures. It filled in with some native grasses, but they are thin and offer very little cover.

I'd definitely leave the cedars since they are the best deer holding cover on the place. If your goal is to increase the deer holding ability the fastest, have it logged and cut half the trees and leave the tops where they fall. You will immediately have ground cover and great bedding and those tops will act like tree cages that will allow the next generation of oaks and other trees to grow without being browsed.

 

[Angus 1895]

I been told if you grind it up with venison it’s good eats.

Home

 

[Hoytvectrix]

2 distinguishing features of an oak savanna include the level of canopy cover (10-30 %) and the open-growth nature of the trees (often with limbs close to the ground since there was little
or no natural pruning).
Two excellent sources for info on oak savannas include .... The Woodlands of Minnesota Landowners Handbook and a publication specific to Mo ... IS-MO6435 Designing an Oak Savanna.

Review of these documents will explain why Ben suggested your property might be considered as an oak woodland instead of an oak savanna ... not that it makes any difference, they are great oak trees worthy of care and protection.

google the following to get info specific to Mo ... I included the MN info since lots of folks on this site hail from the home of the Golden Gophers (not me)
IS-MO6435 Designing an Oak Savanna.

Yeah, after checking out these links and seeing some other comments, this would definitely not be considered a savannah.

On this farm as a whole, we are hoping to increase cover and food to hold more deer, and to a lesser extent turkey. I wouldn't mind preserving small parts of these wooded areas, or transitioning some to a true oak savannah, though. We could harvest some of the oaks for a little bit of income and transition some areas to the oak savannah, and encourage more regeneration in other areas. I think the idea of the savannah is nice from a diversity standpoint, especially considering this property is the only one around with this type of habitat.

I think from a carrying capacity standpoint, we want to have more year round cover and food for deer on the ground. We are going to have something like 60 acres of native grasses from the pastures you can see through the trees in the background, so having more native grasses in what woody cover we do have seems a little redundant?

Here is a link to the property tour thread with some overhead shots of these areas: https://habitat-talk.com/threads/new-blank-canvas-farm-tour-in-northern-mo.15444/