I bought the wrong scope!

[b116757]

I believe I have a Talley picatinny base and Warne Rings on my Bergara B14 HMR Pro 300 PRC it’s a nice stable optic mount. I do have several Larue QD mounts on other rifles very nice mounts also but pricey.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

One more clarifier - I like the Warne mountain tech rings but do not get Warne (or any other brand) of vertically split rings.

 

[b116757]

One more clarifier - I like the Warne mountain tech rings but do not get Warne (or any other brand) of vertically split rings.

I’m curious what your reason is hating on the vertical split rings? I’ve got several of the Larue rings and like them very well.

 

[Telemark]

. I see now they just lowered the price by $150 on it, unreal. Think I should return it and repurchase it?

Absolutely.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m curious what your reason is hating on the vertical split rings? I’ve got several of the Larue rings and like them very well.

They dont evenly clamp scope tubes and have to deform them to an odd shape in order to adequately grip the scope. Can cause issues with zero retention, tracking, and adjustment range.

This video helped my mind understand the mechanics of it - they are unable to deform the solid steel bar and thus they didn't work.

I've taken classes with Frank Galli where the first step on day 1 is validating zero and scope tracking accuracy. He travels around the country doing this and has seen a lot of scopes that are damaged or not tracking properly when used with vertical split rings and the scope manufacturers seem to know it's an issue as well.

Rifle Scopes - Vertically split rings

I've read that there was a huge shit show about vertically split rings a while back. On one of my rifles I have a Bushnell 4.5-18 LRHS in a set of Warne rings. After load development I was sighting it in and dammit if I couldn't get the windage to go further left. I was about a MOA at 200 off...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Mortenson]

Haha, dang, those warne maximas are the rings I put on my 210 12 gauge a few years ago. Oh well, that gun is being retired. Thanks for all your weapons expertise, Gypsy.

 

[bigboreblr]

I sold my scope alignment kit when I started buying burris elite rings. They have a plastic spherical insert that corrects misalignments.

Have those rings on several guns. 450 marlin 375 H&H and was on my old 30-06. All held in just fine.

burris 3-9x50 wroked well today. Zeroed in the CVA in about 8 shots.

 

[b116757]

Those are not at all like the Larue rings I have but really any ring or base style can suffer from poor machining tolerances and a stinker get out of the factory. That being said It could be that the vertical split rings like those where the base clamp is contingent on the base size and scope diameter both is an ill conceived design with to many unknown variables from all the different bases and scopes that could be used in conjunction with the rings. I will likely stray from purchasing any with that particular design after seeing that video. The Larue’s mounts I have use a vertical split but the base clamp is not part of the vertical split at all.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Those are not at all like the Larue rings I have but really any ring or base style can suffer from poor machining tolerances and a stinker get out of the factory. That being said It could be that the vertical split rings like those where the base clamp is contingent on the base size and scope diameter both is an ill conceived design with to many unknown variables from all the different bases and scopes that could be used in conjunction with the rings. I will likely stray from purchasing any with that particular design after seeing that video. The Larue’s mounts I have use a vertical split but the base clamp is not part of the vertical split at all.

I don't think the issue is machining tolerances but wont argue that it isn't a possibility. The guy who made the video reached out to Warne and got the following reply "The rings will not do this when a scope is installed. The rings will slightly compress the sides of the scope so the base stays tight. With a piece of solid steel in the rings, there is nothing to compress so the bottom pulls apart." A lot of people don't realize it but there is a small amount of tube deformation with any ring that actually holds a scope well through recoil. At least with Warne's install instructions, they fully torque the bottom screws while the opposite end is still very loose, then they torque the loose top in effect pinching the scope unevenly. IMO, another issue is using the same screws that secure the ring to the rail to also clamp the tube. Typical pic rail base clamp screw torques are 40-55 in/lb and ring caps are typically 18-22 in/lb.

It would be similar to incorrectly installing horizontal rings by completely torqueing one side of a ring so there were zero gap between ring halves before there was any tension on the screws on the other side. In that case, you'd only be using the lower ring cap torque values and not relying on the screws that are clamping the scope to also hold the rings in place on the base. The larue design works a little different than the stand alone picatinny rings though.

I'm not trying to dispute the fact that vertical split rings work adequately for many thousands of people, just sharing why I think other designs are less prone to issues.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Since this thread has been thoroughly derailed.. - @Mozark - do you know who manufactures the brass used in the 6 creedmoor match ammo you sell with 107 SMKs? I see some of that ammo steeply discounted and was considering giving it a shot for range fodder. I bought a bunch of norma ammo that's similar but the brass necks are too thick to where it's tighter than ideal in my chamber.

 

[Mozark]

Funny you mention that...I just asked today. They brought in some 300 win ammo as seconds (loose) and let us buy at fifty cents a round, the brass was head stamped Sierra. I ended up asking the head of QC, was told it is sourced through multiple venders, in this case Hornady or Sig. With something specific like that, I will ask and try to find out.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Funny you mention that...I just asked today. They brought in some 300 win ammo as seconds (loose) and let us buy at fifty cents a round, the brass was head stamped Sierra. I ended up asking the head of QC, was told it is sourced through multiple venders, in this case Hornady or Sig. With something specific like that, I will ask and try to find out.View attachment 58520

Awesome, thanks! Nice score on the win mag stuff!
This is the ammo I was looking at. No deal like 50 cent win mag ammo but pretty dang good.

Sierra MatchKing Competition 6mm Creedmoor 107 grain HPBT (20 rd box) - Rivertown Munitions

rivertownmunitions.com

 

[Mozark]

Awesome, thanks! Nice score on the win mag stuff!
This is the ammo I was looking at. No deal like 50 cent win mag ammo but pretty dang good.

Sierra MatchKing Competition 6mm Creedmoor 107 grain HPBT (20 rd box) - Rivertown Munitions

rivertownmunitions.com

The brass is Federal. On a six mil note, I ended up with five pounds of 117 gr HPBT that I don't have a use for...you interested?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The brass is Federal. On a six mil note, I ended up with five pounds of 117 gr HPBT that I don't have a use for...you interested?View attachment 58546

Thanks for inquiring!

117's eh? I'd guess you guys made those for David Tubb (superior shooting systems) based on rebated boat tail like his 115 DTACs and the word superior in the pic but I can't find a thing about 117s? Do you know anything else about them? Maybe 115 DTACs that just came out a little heavier?

I have a 7.5 Twist, wonder if that would be enough for those heavy SOBs? I'm sure it's enough to at least keep them tip first. Not sure what you'd like for them but there is probably some market for them out there if you're looking to sell. I'd like to give em a shot but dont want em enough to pay what a possible market value may be. I'd pay shipping + $20 or something like that without knowing more.

 

[Mozark]

Thanks for inquiring!

117's eh? I'd guess you guys made those for David Tubb (superior shooting systems) based on rebated boat tail like his 115 DTACs and the word superior in the pic but I can't find a thing about 117s? Do you know anything else about them? Maybe 115 DTACs that just came out a little heavier?

I have a 7.5 Twist, wonder if that would be enough for those heavy SOBs? I'm sure it's enough to at least keep them tip first. Not sure what you'd like for them but there is probably some market for them out there if you're looking to sell. I'd like to give em a shot but dont want em enough to pay what a possible market value may be. I'd pay shipping + $20 or something like that without knowing more.

(PM sent) your right they are 115, I had a brain fart

 

[West_Fork]

Thanks for inquiring!

117's eh? I'd guess you guys made those for David Tubb (superior shooting systems) based on rebated boat tail like his 115 DTACs and the word superior in the pic but I can't find a thing about 117s? Do you know anything else about them? Maybe 115 DTACs that just came out a little heavier?

I have a 7.5 Twist, wonder if that would be enough for those heavy SOBs? I'm sure it's enough to at least keep them tip first. Not sure what you'd like for them but there is probably some market for them out there if you're looking to sell. I'd like to give em a shot but dont want em enough to pay what a possible market value may be. I'd pay shipping + $20 or something like that without knowing more.

I have a .243 with 9.25 twist. Stable and sub moa at 1360 yards with a 109gr, with 2800-2900 fps at the muzzle, 5,600' above sea level. I think 7.5 would be just fine.