Hunting / recreation and timberland values in your location?

[b116757]

They did sell a 725 acre tract for $3,500,000 a few months ago about a mile north of one of my farms but it had interstate access and a pipe fence feed lot on it already so not strictly bare ground. Across the intersection from the other farm a bare(I mean almost not a single tree) 160 acre tract sold for $4000 an acre a month ago. If I hadn’t already bought another farm last year I would have loved to have added that 160 to our 640 at that location.

 

[BenAllgood]

187 acres. Lots of land like that gets split up around here and I don’t like seeing it happen.

I know the one you're talking about. I've yet to figure out the pricing around there. I look all the time for more to buy that I can justify. I lucked into mine at less than $1500/acre. A hundred acres just went up for sale for $2M there just recently. ($20,000 per acre) It's mostly production ag though.

 

[Brian662]

I bought 46 acres at the beginning of covid for around $3,100/acre mostly wooded but about 12 acres of tillable, this was a really good deal at the time. I'm fairly confident I could get $8,000+ per acre for it now without even using a realtor. SE MN

 

[Turkish]

I physically despise that. Splitting land will be the death of quality hunting as fast as losing it to development. The true heroes of wildlife management (whether they care or not) are guys who are able to piece tracts together to make larger parcels.

I know where you’re coming from but, boy, is that a slippery slope. One could use that same logic to support their opinion that no one should be able to hunt unless you own more than X acres. Is it 80, 800, 8000?

Take it too far and Baker’s the only cat left on this board.

To add to the thread, its a very wide range in my region in SW MS. $3000-3500 mostly, but some really rough clearcut parcels still show up close to $2k. I lost out on a timbered parcel last year with poor access at $2600. $4k and up is possible depending on improvements and timber value. As one moves south toward LA, prices start at $4k for what’s advertised. Hardly anything has actual standing timber value to amount to anything.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I know where you’re coming from but, boy, is that a slippery slope. One could use that same logic to support their opinion that no one should be able to hunt unless you own more than X acres. Is it 80, 800, 8000?

Take it too far and Baker’s the only cat left on this board.

To add to the thread, its a very wide range in my region in SW MS. $3000-3500 mostly, but some really rough clearcut parcels still show up close to $2k. I lost out on a timbered parcel last year with poor access at $2600. $4k and up is possible depending on improvements and timber value. As one moves south toward LA, prices start at $4k for what’s advertised. Hardly anything has actual standing timber value to amount to anything.

I could get behind a minimum to be legal for hunting….
I’m just saying that wildlife and a neighborhood benefits from larger, in tact, tracts than a million 20 acre parcels

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I know where you’re coming from but, boy, is that a slippery slope. One could use that same logic to support their opinion that no one should be able to hunt unless you own more than X acres. Is it 80, 800, 8000?

Take it too far and Baker’s the only cat left on this board.

Agree, it’s slippery in both directions. Sure hate to be the one figuring out what the best balance is.

 

[SD51555]

The money supply is gonna go up at least 250% in the next 6 years, so these numbers are going to start moving very fast. If the economy collapses, it will go faster. If the illusion of WW3 begins it will go faster. I. never expected my place to double so fast. Covid gave us cheap money. Cheap money gave us record inflation in hard assets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bszweda]

Did everyone's salary double? mine certainly did not. I think its cause everyone got 2.5 % interests rates that jacked up the prices, and the market isn't going back down! I'm looking at a 40 acre property listed at 500k! Its 30 acres timber and 10 acres tillable. My realtor said she just recently sold a 40 for 460K for a hunting tract not much tillable. I was dumb founded and asked her who would pay that much and she said she sold it to an Amish person. I think my days of buying acreage is over, which kinda stinks. I'm now just grateful for the land I have.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Did everyone's salary double? mine certainly did not. I think its cause everyone got 2.5 % interests rates that jacked up the prices, and the market isn't going back down! I'm looking at a 40 acre property listed at 500k! Its 30 acres timber and 10 acres tillable. My realtor said she just recently sold a 40 for 460K for a hunting tract not much tillable. I was dumb founded and asked her who would pay that much and she said she sold it to an Amish person. I think my days of buying acreage is over, which kinda stinks. I'm now just grateful for the land I have.

Saw a 29 acre tract down the road from my place with 23 acres of tillable and 6 acres of select cut woods. $160k with 3 offers first week on the market.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Did everyone's salary double? mine certainly did not. I think its cause everyone got 2.5 % interests rates that jacked up the prices, and the market isn't going back down! I'm looking at a 40 acre property listed at 500k! Its 30 acres timber and 10 acres tillable. My realtor said she just recently sold a 40 for 460K for a hunting tract not much tillable. I was dumb founded and asked her who would pay that much and she said she sold it to an Amish person. I think my days of buying acreage is over, which kinda stinks. I'm now just grateful for the land I have.

It's strange because you hear conflicting reports of how people are spending their money today. Americans have never had more credit card or car debt in their lives. The portion of people's income going towards their rent is the highest it has ever been. On the other hand, the amount of cash payments in the last two years or so for land has also been very high (according to Fed Bank via the Land Podcast).It is obvious that many buying land are not the same group as those carrying high interest debt, buying expensive vehicles on long term loans, or are renting. I think many buying land at current interest rates are doing so because they have the cash or equity, otherwise, I am not sure how buying something that increases 6% on average but costs 7.5% a wise investment in the short term. With that said, a 6% on average year over year increase in value for recreational land was true before the latest spike in prices. Depending on what timeline you are talking, gold has been a solid or terrible store of value.

Still, I am sure all of us seeing land go for $4-6K/acre will be wishing we would have bought more at these prices when it is $8-12K/acre in 10 years. A 7% annual increase in value equates to a doubling of value every 10 years.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

It's strange because you hear conflicting reports of how people are spending their money today. Americans have never had more credit card or car debt in their lives. The portion of people's income going towards their rent is the highest it has ever been. On the other hand, the amount of cash payments in the last two years or so for land has also been very high (according to Fed Bank via the Land Podcast).It is obvious that many buying land are not the same group as those carrying high interest debt, buying expensive vehicles on long term loans, or are renting. I think many buying land at current interest rates are doing so because they have the cash or equity, otherwise, I am not sure how buying something that increases 6% on average but costs 7.5% a wise investment in the short term. With that said, a 6% on average year over year increase in value for recreational land was true before the latest spike in prices. Depending on what timeline you are talking, gold has been a solid or terrible store of value.

Still, I am sure all of us seeing land go for $4-6K/acre will be wishing we would have bought more at these prices when it is $8-12K/acre in 10 years. A 7% annual increase in value equates to a doubling of value every 10 years.

From a personal perspective I bought one part of a farm in May and the other part the other day and the price has already increased $1000/acre from the seller.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

From a personal perspective I bought one part of a farm in May and the other part the other day and the price has already increased $1000/acre from the seller.

That's amazing. I was under the impression that land values have been moving sideways since this spring/early summer. I wonder if you got a great deal on your part of the farm in May?

 

[Foggy47]

I started to hunt deer in the northland (MN) when I was in my 20's. I can remember when you could buy nearly any woodland acreage north of the farm country for 100 to 200 an acre......and that was in the 70's and 80's. I suppose much of that land could have been bought for $50 to 100 / acre a decade or two earlier. Of course, we were not earning big bucks either. Still, you gotta pay taxes and hold on for the long term to make some money in real estate. Not always easy to do when your raising a family, etc. I was growing a biz.....or I may have bought some land back then too. You simply cannot do it all. lol.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

That's amazing. I was under the impression that land values have been moving sideways since this spring/early summer. I wonder if you got a great deal on your part of the farm in May?

You know, I didn’t feel like either prices were out of line! I just can’t keep up with what the heck prices aren’t doing. I mean the seller had another buy lined up if I didn’t want it just from word of mouth. I guess I’m just glad to be in it where I’m at. I have no idea what the future holds but if the present is any indication it’s just gonna go up. Land is truly one of the scarcest resources on this planet

 

[b116757]

I suspect there are several forces at work driving up the land values. Inflation is a losing game on cash, so it could be folks a looking for the inflation protection of real estate also I do think we are seeing an exodus from blue run circus tent cities and states. Those with the means to leave behind the circus are leaving to bad they bring their liberal ideas with them as they spread like a plague of liberal cockroaches across the Midwest.

 

[Brian662]

I think the billionaires and their portfolio managers have decided that an investment in rural real estate is a smart choice and that's why the prices have gone bananas. The biggest farmers around me are playing with somebody else's money. You take that, couple with historically low rates for the average Joe (ended last year, I understand that), and then mix it with all the renewed interest in the outdoors around the covid lock down times, and it increases the cost for rec land. It is only going to get worse, if I had a crystal ball 20 years ago, I wouldn't have put a dime into my 401k and dumped it all into real estate. Even with the 2008-2010 collapse I'd be a multi millionaire.

 

[Foggy47]

I think the billionaires and their portfolio managers have decided that an investment in rural real estate is a smart choice and that's why the prices have gone bananas. The biggest farmers around me are playing with somebody else's money. You take that, couple with historically low rates for the average Joe (ended last year, I understand that), and then mix it with all the renewed interest in the outdoors around the covid lock down times, and it increases the cost for rec land. It is only going to get worse, if I had a crystal ball 20 years ago, I wouldn't have put a dime into my 401k and dumped it all into real estate. Even with the 2008-2010 collapse I'd be a multi millionaire.

So would you be a multi-millionaire had you put your money in the big tech stocks.....just saying. (and you would have instant liquidity to boot).

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Guys, just hand me the crystal ball in 2016 and I’d have 10s of millions in crypto profits

 

[Foggy47]

Guys, just hand me the crystal ball in 2016 and I’d have 10s of millions in crypto profits

I'd just like to add.....that you do NOT always have to go for the "gold ring" on this ride through life. Going "All-in" is not for everyone. A reasonable approach to a steady return is likely to reward you with what you may need on this journey. Save, and invest 10% and enjoy your time on this planet. My 2 cents. Oh....and don't be afraid to stick your neck out....if you know its right for you. lol. Wut-me worry? grin

Was just reflecting on what it feels like when you make a really "big bet"......and it goes all wrong. (and I know this feeling). Watch a movie with Steve McQueen, Called "The Cincinnati Kid". Best movie I know that tells you what losing big is like. Powerful message there. Took a decade + of my life to get back to ground zero. Be careful. I got well though this.....but it still gives me nightmares. ....after 50 years.

I would not wish those times on anyone.

 

[Garrett S]

I’d say this- whether southern Ohio or western NY; if it has big buck pictures in the ad (or the phrase “turnkey”) or is ag greater than 80ac it is 25-50% more than the average. Building lots with gorgeous views seem to be even higher …